My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Markku, Aug 18, 2013.

tinnitus forum
    1. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      5XocVck.png


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      For those in doubt, I have earlier received the personalized program leaflet from @attheedgeofscience and thus confirmed this is happening.

      Also for those worried, I know he is aware of the risks & the possibility of it not helping.

      I myself would have neither the money nor the guts to currently opt for this type of procedure that is still rapidly developing and certainly not ready for prime time.

      It is a really interesting piece of development, though; the first Tinnitus Talk member to undergo stem cell treatment for tinnitus.

      I want to thank @attheedgeofscience in advance for keeping a journal and sharing this exciting experience with us.

      --


      I am glad you landed safely in Bangkok. Try to get a good night's rest for tomorrow in mind.

      I am also very much rooting for success & I cannot wait for further updates!
       
      • Like Like x 9
    2. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Thank you so much for sharing your experience with the rest of us like this!

      I truly wish you the best and sincerely hope it can work for you.

      Good luck!
       
      • Like Like x 1
    3. Dhaval
      Buzzed

      Dhaval Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 months
      @attheedgeofscience

      I can't thank you enough for what you are doing. I don't care whether there is enough science to decide it's efficacy. I want you to know I want this to work whether they can explain the route or no or whether they can establish what happens.....its 3 cheers for you...

      Hip hip ......hurray
      Hip hip......hurray
      Hip hip......HURRAY

      best of luck....do keep in touch n I must say this is probably a world 1st. Let alone tt.....few wud hav the guts....BRAVO
       
      • Like Like x 2
    4. Hudson
      Cowboy

      Hudson Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Godspeed, @attheedgeofscience. Contributions like these help to inform everyone. I am hoping this helps you immensely. I look forward to reading your journal.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    5. Karen
      Talkative

      Karen Manager Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Ambassador

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      First time: Noise 2nd Time: Ototoxic drug
      @attheedgeofscience,

      Our thoughts and good wishes are with you this week. Thank you for choosing to undertake this experimental treatment and to write about it here. I'll look forward to reading your updates!

      Best wishes for success,
      Karen
       
      • Like Like x 1
    6. Luca
      Amused

      Luca Member

      Location:
      Vienna, Austria
      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck injury
      To my knowledge there is no known way to make stem cells become hair cells and no known effective way to make those new supposed hair cells attach to the existing cochlea.

      It's a bit like having all the ingredients for a cake and just shoveling them in to the oven.

      The end result will not be a baked cake.

      I think currently there some animal models around?

      Either way I don't think the blood stem cells just auto-magically turn into whatever cells are required to fix your tinnitus :p be it hair cells, nerve tissue or whatever.

      But im no medical person. You go. (Stilll sceptical) (also beware of dangers....)

      Also; 4/2013 is still acute stage. So even if something happens there are no guarantees it was even due to any sort of treatment.
       
    7. daedalus

      daedalus Member

      Location:
      Brussels
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2007
      What Luca said...

      I hope for the best. I especially hope you won't hurt yourself. Just google "stem cell tourism".
       
    8. Jade
      Lucky

      Jade Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sunshine Coast, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/07/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Genetics, Beats by Dre, Work
      @attheedgeofscience,

      AWSOME well I'm thinking POSITIVE< POSITIVE< POSITIVE for you! Hope you get ground breaking results and you will certainly be in my thoughts over the next few weeks possibly forever if it is what we are all hoping it is SUCSESSFUL, I cannot wait to read your next entry, have a great day (y)
       
      • Like Like x 2
    9. hps

      hps Member

      Location:
      canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      14 oct 2012
      • Like Like x 1
      • Hug Hug x 1
    10. Sherri786
      Dreaming

      Sherri786 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2013
      Thank you for the update attheedgeofscience. Wish you the very best ! Thoughts and prayers with you.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    11. Miss lavender

      Miss lavender Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/01/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus
      Well I congratulate you for making such a brave decision to go ahead with this. Even though there are a lot of questions attached to this whole procedure, I am also so very excited to find out what the end result will be. Whatever happens I am sure that your tinnitus will not get worse. I am positive it will get better and you will be able to share it all with us( your tinnitus family). I hope that many of us will benefit from this whole experience. Best of luck!
       
      • Useful Useful x 1
    12. Luca
      Amused

      Luca Member

      Location:
      Vienna, Austria
      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck injury
      IMO Twenty five thousand dollars flushed down the toilet.
       
    13. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      • Like Like x 1
    14. Cher69
      Fine

      Cher69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      York, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      20/5/2013
      Good luck I await your updates with interest and thank you for sharing with us - I think we all will be thinking about you on Weds and sending you positive vibes - x
       
      • Like Like x 2
    15. Hudson
      Cowboy

      Hudson Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      @Luca,

      If @attheedgeofscience has the means and the desire to pursue this it is not our place to judge it. In my mind 25k is a small price to pay for quality of life if it indeed works. This poster has been kind enough to share their experience with us and that action will only serve the members here to make informed decisions about their own tinnitus. Please keep that in mind when posting. I wish the best for @attheedgeofscience in his or her journey with this treatment option. I honestly hope it works.
       
      • Like Like x 9
    16. mick

      mick Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      @attheedgeofscience
      Wishing you the best. Above all I hope this experiment causes you no harm.
       
    17. Luca
      Amused

      Luca Member

      Location:
      Vienna, Austria
      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck injury
      One cannot make an informed decision about their own tinnitus based on the experience of one other single person.

      I don't mean to judge but @attheedgeofscience was going on about Dr. Wilden in Germany, it is well established in the german tinnitus forums that the guy is a con artist and the treatment a scam. (the laser can't even reach the hair cells).

      Now the @attheedgeofscience is onto stem cells which is still in its infancy in terms of medical development.

      see:

      Stem Cell Fraud: A 60 Minutes investigation


      One should be sceptical even if the OP claims it has worked for him.

      No disrespect.
       
    18. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      I decided to split the journal entries and comments.

      Hopefully it improves the reading experience in the end.
       
    19. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
    20. gary
      Transparent

      gary Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Macomb, MI. USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who Knows
      Did you consider the clinic in Germany that Dana White and famous US athletes went to?
       
    21. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      I normally don't comment on people's entries as I have no interest in starting endless pointless debates. However, as my integrity seems to be questioned, I will say that I never claimed Dr. wildens's therapy to work for tinnitus, but for hearing loss (for which it absolutely does). My audiograms confirm this. Yes, yes, everybody claims that the laser cannot reach the inner ear - how is it then that the laser I have at home can shine through the palm of my hand?

      The journal I keep is factual and objective. No more no less.

      Perhaps, you should consider finding yourself another forum to join.
       
      • Like Like x 4
    22. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      I am aware that there are clinics in Germany, but as far as I know none of them deal with hearing loss or tinnitus. I was guided to the clinic in Thailand by a resource organization because this one at least had experience in tinnitus treatment using stem cells (from one former patient).
       
      • Like Like x 1
    23. Jade
      Lucky

      Jade Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sunshine Coast, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/07/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Genetics, Beats by Dre, Work
      Hi @gary,
      Does Dana White and some of the UFC boys have T? and have they sought treatment for it in Germany?
       
    24. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      Luca, what is the point of your posts? - our friend has already begun the treatment, so why don't you wish him the best of luck and keep your know-it-all criticisms until after its over.
      For what its worth I have tried home ear lasers and they spiked my tinnitus and gave me a new symptom of serious vertigo! forcing my discontinuation. Once discontinued the vertigo subsided. How do you explain this phenomenon if it cannot reach the cochlea?
       
      • Like Like x 1
    25. yonkapin

      yonkapin Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Melbourne, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2012
      Dana White has had some serious Meniere's disease for a number of years. He was on a bunch of heavy duty meds and even had one of his auditoy nerves cut to try fix things to no avail. Apparently he got referred to some place in Germany where they did something called Orthokine therapy. It's not really stem cell therapy though (I think), and it only helped to stop the crazy vertigo attacks he was having, he still has hearing loss and tinnitus unfortunately. Pretty inspiring that he's dealt with all that while running the biggest MMA orgnisation in the world!

      ---

      Anyways, best of luck to the OP. Hope the treatment is successful.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    26. Luca
      Amused

      Luca Member

      Location:
      Vienna, Austria
      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck injury
      That is most likely because Wilden did the the audiograms. When I review the literature I come across things like:

      "No statistically significant effect of LLLT on auditory function was found, as assessed by pure-tone audiometry, speech understanding, and TEOAEs. Additionally, no individual subjects showed any clinically significant change."

      "Audiometric examination did not show a statistically significant difference between the two groups."

      "No changes were detected in the audiometric threshold in both groups."

      Source: The Effect of Low-Level Laser Therapy on HearingShawn S. Goodman,1 Ruth A. Bentler,1 Andrew Dittberner,2 and Ian B. Mertes

      ISRN Otolaryngology Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 916370, 9 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/916370

      I think it is also important to know that most hearing tests at ENT's only go to 8,000 or in some cases 10,000 hz. I think that often times no impairmentis are found in this range in people with tinnitus but beyond 10khz there is damage, compared to the "good" ear.

      Either way I hope your brave trial is successful in Thailand. Good luck.
       
    27. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      "The problem" with people like you is that you have no first hand experience with the therapy, and instead base all your knowledge on what you have read or heard about somewhere else. My audiograms which I posted in my introduction solidly confirm a hearing improvement from 0 - 12.5 kHz (which is the range dr. Wilden uses).

      The reason why many studies confirm no signficant improvement before/after treatment is because they use lasers with little output (5 mw or so) for 15 min. Dr. Wilden uses dual laser wavelengths (infrared and red) with 200 mw output for an hour in total. But, again these are the kinds of details you would only know if you have first hand experience with the treatment.

      Having a background as a financial auditor means I very fact based in my approach. I wish people like yourself would apply the same principles.
       
      • Like Like x 5
    28. click
      Busy

      click Member Benefactor

      Location:
      West Cornwall, England, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/04/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not sure
      I do believe @Luca others should be allowed to give their opinion (preferably without an argument ensuing) but it's attheedgeofscience who is taking all the risks & paying a great deal to do so. We & the medical profession know almost nothing about what will & what won't work, so if someone is willing to be a guinea pig then good luck to them.

      @attheedgeofscience - I think you're incredibly brave to be trying this. I really hope that it's successful.
       
      • Like Like x 3
    29. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      I do allow people to have their own opinions. But, I get annoyed when my integrity is questioned. Besides, presenting opinions as "facts" helps no one...
       
      • Like Like x 5
    30. click
      Busy

      click Member Benefactor

      Location:
      West Cornwall, England, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/04/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not sure
      Apologies if my post made it sound as though you don't allow people their own opinions @attheedgeofscience - it wasn't intended.

      I agree totally & good luck again!
       
      • Like Like x 2

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