My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[Markku]

For those in doubt, I have earlier received the personalized program leaflet from @attheedgeofscience and thus confirmed this is happening.

Also for those worried, I know he is aware of the risks & the possibility of it not helping.

I myself would have neither the money nor the guts to currently opt for this type of procedure that is still rapidly developing and certainly not ready for prime time.

It is a really interesting piece of development, though; the first Tinnitus Talk member to undergo stem cell treatment for tinnitus.

I want to thank @attheedgeofscience in advance for keeping a journal and sharing this exciting experience with us.

--


I am glad you landed safely in Bangkok. Try to get a good night's rest for tomorrow in mind.

I am also very much rooting for success & I cannot wait for further updates!

 

[Molan]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with the rest of us like this!

I truly wish you the best and sincerely hope it can work for you.

Good luck!

 

[Dhaval]

@attheedgeofscience

I can't thank you enough for what you are doing. I don't care whether there is enough science to decide it's efficacy. I want you to know I want this to work whether they can explain the route or no or whether they can establish what happens.....its 3 cheers for you...

Hip hip ......hurray
Hip hip......hurray
Hip hip......HURRAY

best of luck....do keep in touch n I must say this is probably a world 1st. Let alone tt.....few wud hav the guts....BRAVO

 

[Hudson]

Godspeed, @attheedgeofscience. Contributions like these help to inform everyone. I am hoping this helps you immensely. I look forward to reading your journal.

 

[Karen]

@attheedgeofscience,

Our thoughts and good wishes are with you this week. Thank you for choosing to undertake this experimental treatment and to write about it here. I'll look forward to reading your updates!

Best wishes for success,
Karen

 

[Luca]

To my knowledge there is no known way to make stem cells become hair cells and no known effective way to make those new supposed hair cells attach to the existing cochlea.

It's a bit like having all the ingredients for a cake and just shoveling them in to the oven.

The end result will not be a baked cake.

I think currently there some animal models around?

Either way I don't think the blood stem cells just auto-magically turn into whatever cells are required to fix your tinnitus be it hair cells, nerve tissue or whatever.

But im no medical person. You go. (Stilll sceptical) (also beware of dangers....)

Also; 4/2013 is still acute stage. So even if something happens there are no guarantees it was even due to any sort of treatment.

 

[daedalus]

What Luca said...

I hope for the best. I especially hope you won't hurt yourself. Just google "stem cell tourism".

 

[Jade]

@attheedgeofscience,

AWSOME well I'm thinking POSITIVE< POSITIVE< POSITIVE for you! Hope you get ground breaking results and you will certainly be in my thoughts over the next few weeks possibly forever if it is what we are all hoping it is SUCSESSFUL, I cannot wait to read your next entry, have a great day

 

[hps]

@attheedgeofscience
wish you success.BRAVO

 

[Sherri786]

Thank you for the update attheedgeofscience. Wish you the very best ! Thoughts and prayers with you.

 

[Miss lavender]

Well I congratulate you for making such a brave decision to go ahead with this. Even though there are a lot of questions attached to this whole procedure, I am also so very excited to find out what the end result will be. Whatever happens I am sure that your tinnitus will not get worse. I am positive it will get better and you will be able to share it all with us( your tinnitus family). I hope that many of us will benefit from this whole experience. Best of luck!

 

[Luca]

IMO Twenty five thousand dollars flushed down the toilet.

 

[erik]

@attheedgeofscience Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[Cher69]

Good luck I await your updates with interest and thank you for sharing with us - I think we all will be thinking about you on Weds and sending you positive vibes - x

 

[Hudson]

@Luca,

If @attheedgeofscience has the means and the desire to pursue this it is not our place to judge it. In my mind 25k is a small price to pay for quality of life if it indeed works. This poster has been kind enough to share their experience with us and that action will only serve the members here to make informed decisions about their own tinnitus. Please keep that in mind when posting. I wish the best for @attheedgeofscience in his or her journey with this treatment option. I honestly hope it works.

 

[mick]

@attheedgeofscience
Wishing you the best. Above all I hope this experiment causes you no harm.

 

[Luca]

that action will only serve the members here to make informed decisions about their own tinnitus. Please keep that in mind when posting.

One cannot make an informed decision about their own tinnitus based on the experience of one other single person.

I don't mean to judge but @attheedgeofscience was going on about Dr. Wilden in Germany, it is well established in the german tinnitus forums that the guy is a con artist and the treatment a scam. (the laser can't even reach the hair cells).

Now the @attheedgeofscience is onto stem cells which is still in its infancy in terms of medical development.

see:



One should be sceptical even if the OP claims it has worked for him.

No disrespect.

 

[Markku]

I decided to split the journal entries and comments.

Hopefully it improves the reading experience in the end.

 

[jazz]

@attheedgeofscience Our hopes and prayers are with you!!

 

[gary]

I've agreed with Markku (in a private e-mail) to document as much as I can while I am in Thailand. As I wrote in my introduction, I will of course be happy to share whatever may be of help to others afterwards (just as I did with the laser therapy). Right now, however, I don't feel I have much more to add to my stem cell therapy adventure - because I have no tangible facts at this moment. This kind of treatment comes with no guarentees whatsoever, I am afraid...

Did you consider the clinic in Germany that Dana White and famous US athletes went to?

 

[attheedgeofscience]

One cannot make an informed decision about their own tinnitus based on the experience of one other single person.

I don't mean to judge but @attheedgeofscience was going on about Dr. Wilden in Germany, it is well established in the german tinnitus forums that the guy is a con artist and the treatment a scam. (the laser can't even reach the hair cells).

Now the @attheedgeofscience is onto stem cells which is still in its infancy in terms of medical development.

see:



One should be sceptical even if the OP claims it has worked for him.

No disrespect.

I normally don't comment on people's entries as I have no interest in starting endless pointless debates. However, as my integrity seems to be questioned, I will say that I never claimed Dr. wildens's therapy to work for tinnitus, but for hearing loss (for which it absolutely does). My audiograms confirm this. Yes, yes, everybody claims that the laser cannot reach the inner ear - how is it then that the laser I have at home can shine through the palm of my hand?

The journal I keep is factual and objective. No more no less.

Perhaps, you should consider finding yourself another forum to join.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Did you consider the clinic in Germany that Dana White and famous US athletes went to?

I am aware that there are clinics in Germany, but as far as I know none of them deal with hearing loss or tinnitus. I was guided to the clinic in Thailand by a resource organization because this one at least had experience in tinnitus treatment using stem cells (from one former patient).

 

[Jade]

Did you consider the clinic in Germany that Dana White and famous US athletes went to?

Hi @gary,
Does Dana White and some of the UFC boys have T? and have they sought treatment for it in Germany?

 

[dan]

Luca, what is the point of your posts? - our friend has already begun the treatment, so why don't you wish him the best of luck and keep your know-it-all criticisms until after its over.
For what its worth I have tried home ear lasers and they spiked my tinnitus and gave me a new symptom of serious vertigo! forcing my discontinuation. Once discontinued the vertigo subsided. How do you explain this phenomenon if it cannot reach the cochlea?

 

[yonkapin]

Hi @gary,
Does Dana White and some of the UFC boys have T? and have they sought treatment for it in Germany?

Dana White has had some serious Meniere's disease for a number of years. He was on a bunch of heavy duty meds and even had one of his auditoy nerves cut to try fix things to no avail. Apparently he got referred to some place in Germany where they did something called Orthokine therapy. It's not really stem cell therapy though (I think), and it only helped to stop the crazy vertigo attacks he was having, he still has hearing loss and tinnitus unfortunately. Pretty inspiring that he's dealt with all that while running the biggest MMA orgnisation in the world!

---

Anyways, best of luck to the OP. Hope the treatment is successful.

 

[Luca]

but for hearing loss (for which it absolutely does). My audiograms confirm this.

That is most likely because Wilden did the the audiograms. When I review the literature I come across things like:

"No statistically significant effect of LLLT on auditory function was found, as assessed by pure-tone audiometry, speech understanding, and TEOAEs. Additionally, no individual subjects showed any clinically significant change."

"Audiometric examination did not show a statistically significant difference between the two groups."

"No changes were detected in the audiometric threshold in both groups."

Source: The Effect of Low-Level Laser Therapy on HearingShawn S. Goodman,1 Ruth A. Bentler,1 Andrew Dittberner,2 and Ian B. Mertes

ISRN Otolaryngology Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 916370, 9 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/916370

I think it is also important to know that most hearing tests at ENT's only go to 8,000 or in some cases 10,000 hz. I think that often times no impairmentis are found in this range in people with tinnitus but beyond 10khz there is damage, compared to the "good" ear.

Either way I hope your brave trial is successful in Thailand. Good luck.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

That is most likely because Wilden did the the audiograms. When I review the literature I come across things like:

"No statistically significant effect of LLLT on auditory function was found, as assessed by pure-tone audiometry, speech understanding, and TEOAEs. Additionally, no individual subjects showed any clinically significant change."

"Audiometric examination did not show a statistically significant difference between the two groups."

"No changes were detected in the audiometric threshold in both groups."

Source: The Effect of Low-Level Laser Therapy on HearingShawn S. Goodman,1 Ruth A. Bentler,1 Andrew Dittberner,2 and Ian B. Mertes

ISRN Otolaryngology Volume 2013 (2013), Article ID 916370, 9 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/916370

I think it is also important to know that most hearing tests at ENT's only go to 8,000 or in some cases 10,000 hz. I think that often times no impairmentis are found in this range in people with tinnitus but beyond 10khz there is damage, compared to the "good" ear.

Either way I hope your brave trial is successful in Thailand. Good luck.

"The problem" with people like you is that you have no first hand experience with the therapy, and instead base all your knowledge on what you have read or heard about somewhere else. My audiograms which I posted in my introduction solidly confirm a hearing improvement from 0 - 12.5 kHz (which is the range dr. Wilden uses).

The reason why many studies confirm no signficant improvement before/after treatment is because they use lasers with little output (5 mw or so) for 15 min. Dr. Wilden uses dual laser wavelengths (infrared and red) with 200 mw output for an hour in total. But, again these are the kinds of details you would only know if you have first hand experience with the treatment.

Having a background as a financial auditor means I very fact based in my approach. I wish people like yourself would apply the same principles.

 

[click]

I do believe @Luca others should be allowed to give their opinion (preferably without an argument ensuing) but it's attheedgeofscience who is taking all the risks & paying a great deal to do so. We & the medical profession know almost nothing about what will & what won't work, so if someone is willing to be a guinea pig then good luck to them.

@attheedgeofscience - I think you're incredibly brave to be trying this. I really hope that it's successful.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

I do believe @Luca others should be allowed to give their opinion (preferably without an argument ensuing) but it's attheedgeofscience who is taking all the risks & paying a great deal to do so. We & the medical profession know almost nothing about what will & what won't work, so if someone is willing to be a guinea pig then good luck to them.

@attheedgeofscience - I think you're incredibly brave to be trying this. I really hope that it's successful.

I do allow people to have their own opinions. But, I get annoyed when my integrity is questioned. Besides, presenting opinions as "facts" helps no one...

 

[click]

I do allow people to have their own opinions. But, I get annoyed when my integrity is questioned. Besides, presenting opinions as "facts" helps no one...

Apologies if my post made it sound as though you don't allow people their own opinions @attheedgeofscience - it wasn't intended.

I agree totally & good luck again!