Neurotrophin 3 Regenerates Cochlear Synapses

BDNF and NT-3 injections.

 

Okay, I'm assuming you got BDNF at Korea. You seem to be open to ideas other might deem fruitless, so let me ask you this. I've been researching BDNF for a bit, so I'm not trying to act like a pro on the topic, but in theory, it would seem to me like, if we could boost our BDNF through exercise, diet, and supplements, then maybe we can regenerate some synapse nerves? Since many reports point at BDNF as being able to help restore our synapses, and well that seems to be what Otonomy is using for OTO-413. Of course Otonomy may be using a higher concentration that we can't naturally produce. Something to ponder.

Also, I wish this thread got more love. There might be something here.

 

I have been thinking about this all weekend, too.

What if we could increase BDNF, and NT-3 AND increase cochlear circulation to get these compounds to our inner ears. What might that protocol look like?

 

The peptides cerebrolysin and dihexa both increase BDNF and NGF if I am not mistaken. I hope to make a new thread about peptides soon with links to papers.

 

This paper says that Resveratrol inhibits neurogenesis. Part of me wonders if some of these things increase blood levels because they interfere with binding. I had been taking a ton of Resveratrol. I think i will hold off for awhile.

http://m.jbc.org/content/early/2012/10/26/jbc.M112.406413

 

The former is for sale from Russia (the packaging is in Cyrillic) on eBay. Any idea if this is a legit product?

 

Hi, I do not know but I know one guy who purchased cerebrolysin from a Russian pharmacy for tinnitus who has not yet received it yet. This one.

Here are some links. Supposedly dihexa is 7 orders of magnitude better potency than BDNF but works as a variant of HGF on C-Met. Both are available with prescription in the US.

I am also interested in human recombinant NGF but it is only sold to labs.

Link to papers

Link to papers

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19514187/

https://www.europeanreview.org/article/8437

 

How would we get this in the cochlea without IT injection?

 

I starting to think that there is a inflammatory response feedback loop that is preventing some of us with synapse damage from healing. My wife swears up and down that exercising and going on an anti inflammatory diet will help me. I'm actually on my 4th day in a row with extremely low tinnitus and I attribute it to taking turmeric with breakfast as well as dinner.

 

I don’t know. I can only speculate that because most of these peptides have good BBB penetration they may be able to at least partially cross the BLB as well?

Something I found interesting in regards to dihexa:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20150337024A1/en

 

High volume strength training significantly increases BDNF:

Changes in the BDNF Response to Resistance Exercise is Associated with Changes in Power Performance in Experienced, Resistance-Trained Men

Nicotine might too:

Nicotine affects the expression of brain-derived neurotrophic factor mRNA and protein in the hippocampus of hypoxic newborn piglets.

Influences of chronic venlafaxine, olanzapineand nicotine on the hippocampal and corticalconcentrations of brain-derived neurotrophicfactor (BDNF)

Now, how do we boost NT-3?

 

Nicotine's vascular effects would probably counteract any benefit. Strength training > smoking. Companionship helps increase BDNF, too.

Resveratrol greatly increases BDNF but it's sort of conflicting info on what the right amount is. Apparently, too much can be a different nerve problem. I imagine this may be true for NT-3 too.

BUT as far as NT-3, someone on here mentioned Astaxanthin and I could literally kiss him or her because I can honestly tell a pretty noticeable difference in how music sounds after a few weeks. Obviously you can never rule out coincidence/time/something else but I strongly feel it's the Astaxanthin in my case, though, because it is the only supplement I have taken for my hearing issues that I can literally *feel* doing something immediate. My ears consistently feel tingly and warm (but not inflamed) a few hours after taking it. No other supplement seems to have that effect on me.

I might be an n=1 though since macrolide ototoxicity is so rare.

Worth mentioning my tinnitus hasn't changed yet from a few weeks ago nor my (very unscientific) at home audiogram but music sounds about 15-20% louder and closer to me then it did even a few weeks ago. I plan to do a longer post on this in a few months after I really gauge the effects.

 

Stay far away from nicotine. It's ototoxic.

 

ALCAR increases NGF.

Acetyl-L-carnitine treatment increases nerve growth factor levels and choline acetyltransferase activity in the central nervous system of aged rats.

 

That and along with 800+ other chemicals. I am in doubt of ototoxicity’s applicability to tinnitus severity. It doesn’t spike my tinnitus at all. Also, I’m sure CIGARETTES are probably terrible for you, but nicotine has some promising properties. Also, life is hell, so.

 

That's awesome news!

What brand/dosage?

Looking forward to it.

 

Sports Research 12mg started once every other day and moved to 5 days a week. I picked that brand because it's in coconut oil and it helps with absorption.

In addition to increasing NT-3, it's also an extremely powerful antioxidant.

Heads up if you do try this, though: it reportedly increases estrogen in both men and women and it definitely changes the color of your stool (I believe harmlessly).

 

What color? Seriously, I am curious... brown to yellow orange or black?

 

Reddish/bright orange.

 

Red? I wonder why that is... any ideas?

 

Yeah carotenoids tend to have pigmentation effects. Astaxanthin is why Flamingos are pink.

 

Very cool FGG, glad I asked. I thought maybe you were eliminating too much iron as a possibility... sweet! Thanks for enlightening me once again... take care.

 

I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only one trying Astaxanthin and that it helped you. Keep us posted on the results you get. I just ordered this brand 12 mg of Astaxanthin:

https://www.iherb.com/pr/California...Pure-Icelandic-12-mg-30-Veggie-Softgels/71683

And will be using it along with Lutein and Zeaxanthin to significantly increase NT3 and hopefully regenerate my synapses and will report results if I get any on this forum. The fact that you got positive results from it shows not only that it works in theory, but that it works in practice too. I really hope it does something for me. I have missed hearing all nuances and details in music.so much music sounds like complete distorted garbage for me after I messed up my hearing from loud headphone usage. If I would get even a 5% increase in my hearing it would be a blessing for me. Not to mention the fact that I'm really disabled from hidden hearing loss and it keeps getting worse. I can't hear anything when there's any background noise for example.

Here's to hope and I hope this community together will somehow find a natural supplement that really boosts hearing. After all NR seems to help a lot of people here even though it didn't help me and Curcumin has lowered my tinnitus. I personally have heard about all of these supplements from this forum since audiologists or hearing aids salesmen as I call them are pretty useless and don't even bother to do extended high-frequency audiograms or recognize that hidden hearing loss is real and a fact of life for a lot of people.

 

I have a few working theories about curcumin but I can't seem to nail down how or why it works. Any thoughts?

 

Please do keep us posted! Music continues to slightly improve for me. I feel like week by week I can hear small parts of songs I couldn't hear before. Nothing dramatic yet--I don't want to get your hopes up-- but noticeable for sure and it continues to improve.

 

How’s this going? What other compounds are available to boost NT-3 production that aren’t part of the opiate family? It seems there’s an abundance of supplements available to boost BDNF but not so much NT-3.

Edit: it appears NT-3 is chiefly intrinsically derived: https://sciencebeta.com/neurotrophin-3-anxious-temperament/

However, as a former psychonaut, there are tons of nootropics that are understudied that work on a variety of different receptors that end up producing a host of different downstream biological responses. I’m going in.

 

I just received Astaxanthin and Lutein with zeaxanthin a few days ago. Delivery to Lithuania from iHerb took a hell of a lot of time. I have just been using it for a couple days now so it's way too early to report any results yet. I will update this forum after using it for at least a month or two. I really hope for some sort of improvement in my auditory system if nothing else it will at least give me hope for some time.

Honestly I don't know of any other supplements that increase NT3 other than what I'm using right now. I know a ton of supplements that increase BDNF and even nerve growth factors, but almost none that increase NT3.

And honestly trying a lot of supplements that increase BDNF including Curcumin I can honestly say at least in my estimation that it won't improve your hearing either that or it takes a lot of time, however, messing with BDNF and Curcumin especially did improve my tinnitus so it wasn't for nothing and I did gain some significant results, but it didn't make me very happy, because my tinnitus was very mild for a long time, to begin with, and doesn't really bother me much. My hearing, however, is so bad it's hard to even function, half of the time I can't even hear what is said to me and happy to repeat What? all throughout a day like an idiot not to mention. I can't hear shit in background noise, my music quality is horrible, it's almost so bad that I don't even bother to listen to music anymore. I have to use subtitles for almost everything from movies to games. I miss my perfect hearing so much I can't even describe it in words.

So after messing with BDNF and not gaining an inch auditory wise, I think NT3 is a better route currently and I'm taking it and trying it myself long term.

And you are completely right nootropics and supplements in general work on a lot of different receptors and pathways and trigger different biological responses. There are so many supplements whose benefits we don't even know yet. That's why I think there is hope to find a natural solution to the hearing loss. We just have to be proactive and find it by trying and experimenting based on supplements that can help in theory.

 

So now that I have been taking Lutein with Zeaxanthin and Astaxanthin for a lot longer than two weeks I can finally say some results and experiences from it.

I have to say my tinnitus is definitely lower in volume and intensity, but like I said it has been mild for a long time so that is just some minor positive change and improvement. But the most noticeable change is the fact that my hearing seems a little sharper and cleaner - not a huge difference, like a 5-10% difference, but I can hear the dialogue in the movies and games a little better, music sounds a little more nuanced and colored. Also, my speech in noise improved a little. I can now communicate with my family on the bus or outdoors a little more effectively and hear childrens voices better.

I have to say I am now positive NT3 is the route to take and will continue to take it and post results here as time goes on.

 

I yesterday started taking Astaxanthin myself with my Omega 3 supplements, we may very well be on to something. I'm only on my second day and I notice I can hear things in music and even podcasts better a bit better.

Do we know to what extent Astaxanthin increases NT3? I know Astaxanthin easily penetrates the blood brain barrier, so it should get into the cochlea to regrow the hair cells, if it indeed works. Perhaps you just need to stay on it for a long time. I'm on 12mg a day.

 

I got the same... about 10% difference and then it reached a plateau. I'm hoping for further improvements with continued use.