Occlusion Effect, Ear Plugs Pointless in Social Situations?

[Zenyatta]

I know - I wasn't claiming that you weren't agreeing. I was just curious about a method that allows for safe insertion. I don't know of any, but your claim about "knowing what you're doing" got me curious and I thought that maybe I didn't know of a trick that allowed to do this safely, so I wanted to learn.

Oh! Nah, I wish. I just know that I had an absolutely horrible time with my foam earplugs and poked myself in the eardrum. Then I had custom plugs made and those are safe to put in.

 

[lolkas]

Oh! Nah, I wish. I just know that I had an absolutely horrible time with my foam earplugs and poked myself in the eardrum. Then I had custom plugs made and those are safe to put in.

Idk but i got used to foam and they are superrior to custom molds by amount of benefits you get, not mentioning price.

Now, i have both ACS Custom ones with set of filters (pro 17 and pro 26) and i tell ya - foam is much better.

I literally cannot talk when in ACS plugs. Oclusion effect literraly rips my ears apart.

As i said, cut 1/4th of foam earplug and insert slowly. You will feel where it is (i feel with tiny hairs that are in ear). It takes a bit of skill to build but within an week or two - you will popp them in no time.

 

[Zinnia]

I'm just learning about the occlusion effect... What I didn't know until yesterday was that it can increase the decibels the ear hears by 20 decibels or more.

Are musician custom plugs a better way to decrease the occlusion effect? Because of the filter creating an open space?

I know the further the plug is in the ear canal, the less occlusion effect occurs...

Any insight...?

BTW, the sound consistently throughout the day is between 75-85 decibels with reg spikes of up to 95.

 

[pytajnick]

@Zinnia There seems to be a solution for occlusion effect vs hearing protection dilemma but rather an expensive one:

https://asiustechnologies.com/collections/all
Basically, you need one of ADEL module, which works like "secondary" eardrum and then put it into compatible earplugs or earphones. They seem to come with different frequency response and ateniuation level. (the most expensive one is adjustable).
As an effect, you are supposedly having a reliable level of protection and getting rid of occlusion effect during speak.

Moreover, I wonder whether these Modules combined with compatible earphones couldn't work as wng's? Let's think about possibilities:
*you attenuate level of sound that is too loud for you
*you don't need to struggle with speaking/eating due to lack of occlusion effect
*you are not limited to pink/white noise used in standard wng's (very often with very poor quality)
*you don't need to choose protection or white noise therapy (when wearing wng's you can really only use earmuffs as protection)

I guess I should contact their marketing department because I just found a new, exciting market for them

Again, they are not cheap, but when we compare the price with custom molded earplugs or wng's (not to mention whole TRT or other sound therapy package) suddenly it appears to be quite reasonable. It's funny because just yesterday I got free WNG's form NHS, a quick search for the retail price - 300 pounds each. I really appreciate it but just after one day of using them I can clearly see their limitations - lowest volume level is still too loud for my Hyperacusis and totally masking my T, so I am forced to make some adjustments by keeping them outside ear canal (only then I can still hear both my T and noise generated by wng).

 

[MSF]

Pulling this thread back up again as I think I experienced some issues with the occlusion effect today while wearing a type of etymotic musician's earplugs at work (they are a short-barrel type, not sure of brand, they feel like they probably attenuate at least 15dB). My workplace is not super noisy--according to my phone app, it seems to average ~75 dB, peaks just over 80?--but the noise is continuous and there are loud kitchen clanks and carts and noisy staff, and so as someone with T and H, it's fatiguing/stressful.

So I decided to use the earplugs today and I had them in for about 4.5 hrs and they were working great--I could converse with people fine while being unconcerned about the background noise. I also didn't find my own voice to be annoyingly loud--earplug are the rubber-rimmed type so they really have to be pushed in to work at all (they are also flesh-colored and very low profile, so I didn't feel self-conscious at all). But at the point that I took a lunch break and took them out, I noticed the typical altered/"mid-range scooped" feeling in my hearing that I experience after lengthy sound exposure . I did some reading at that point and decided to leave them out for the rest of the day until I could find out more (now worried that I'd been hearing myself at 100+ dB for a good part of the day).

I've read about some ENTs cutting holes in the etymotic earplugs to reduce the occlusion effect, and since low bass sounds aren't really an issue, i'm wondering what would happen if I opened the shaft hole up more (it seems to already have a very small pinhole through center). I'm also torn about using earplugs at all now--my ears feel more burnt out/T feels more pronounced after using earplugs today than they did yesterday without. There must be some effective solution for dealing with this type of low-level workplace noise that doesn't involved jamming foam right against your ear drum (which I absolutely will not going to be doing!)

Any suggestions?

 

[Fally]

I am starting to wonder the same thing as you MSF. My ENT told me to where ear plugs in places and ive recently been wearing them at work due to having a noise exposure so wanted them to calm down a bit. Today I had them in 3 hours and it was super quiet at work, my left ear is now raging really badly like ive been at a concert and im wondering if wearing them at work for hours at a time has whats been causing my ears to be spiking more then normal.

 

[MSF]

I am starting to wonder the same thing as you MSF. My ENT told me to where ear plugs in places and ive recently been wearing them at work due to having a noise exposure so wanted them to calm down a bit. Today I had them in 3 hours and it was super quiet at work, my left ear is now raging really badly like ive been at a concert and im wondering if wearing them at work for hours at a time has whats been causing my ears to be spiking more then normal.

Were you having conversations with others while wearing them? I can't imagine that having the earplugs in alone, even for a few hours, would cause any hearing issues (but I also half-wondered the same thing myself).

Also, for those looking for hard data, there are any numbers of studies out there on the topic. This one is open access and was fairly informative--my take away is that there is no perfect solution (other than the baby foam plugs!)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4197401/

I do find it interesting that the potential for damage hasn't been studied more given the effect itself is real, especially given how prevalent it is with hearing aids. But it seems that with all things hearing, there's still a huge grey area between academic studies and real-world application/addressing.

On that note, here is a one-patient example of how loud the occlusion affect might actually be (it seems to get louder with lower frequencies, so for men whose fundemental is at 100 Hz, it seems possible that they would also hear it at ~100 dB). This gave me the idea for the shaft hole.

https://hearinghealthmatters.org/hearthemusic/2017/occlusion-effect-musicians-earplugs-part-1/

 

[Fally]

Were you having conversations with others while wearing them? I can't imagine that having the earplugs in alone, even for a few hours, would cause any hearing issues (but I also half-wondered the same thing myself).

Also, for those looking for hard data, there are any numbers of studies out there on the topic. This one is open access and was fairly informative--my take away is that there is no perfect solution (other than the baby foam plugs!)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4197401/

I do find it interesting that the potential for damage hasn't been studied more given the effect itself is real, especially given how prevalent it is with hearing aids. But it seems that with all things hearing, there's still a huge grey area between academic studies and real-world application/addressing.

On that note, here is a one-patient example of how loud the occlusion affect might actually be (it seems to get louder with lower frequencies, so for men whose fundemental is at 100 Hz, it seems possible that they would also hear it at ~100 dB). This gave me the idea for the shaft hole.

https://hearinghealthmatters.org/hearthemusic/2017/occlus
ion-effect-musicians-earplugs-part-1/

Yes I was I work in a library so I need to have conversations. I am so confused my right ear is just really loudly ringing right now and thats actually my good ear.

 

[GregCA]

I've read about some ENTs cutting holes in the etymotic earplugs to reduce the occlusion effect, and since low bass sounds aren't really an issue, i'm wondering what would happen if I opened the shaft hole up more (it seems to already have a very small pinhole through center). I'm also torn about using earplugs at all now--my ears feel more burnt out/T feels more pronounced after using earplugs today than they did yesterday without. There must be some effective solution for dealing with this type of low-level workplace noise that doesn't involved jamming foam right against your ear drum (which I absolutely will not going to be doing!)

Any suggestions?

Have you considered noise cancelling headphones or earmuffs?

 

[MSF]

Yes I was I work in a library so I need to have conversations. I am so confused my right ear is just really loudly ringing right now and thats actually my good ear.

Similar issue here. My guess is that because the "better" ear is more sensitive, it is now reacts more.

Have you considered noise cancelling headphones or earmuffs?

Those simply aren't practical for me (and I'm guessing for most workplaces where people interact, particularly with customers).

 

[GregCA]

Those simply aren't practical for me (and I'm guessing for most workplaces where people interact, particularly with customers).

Ear plugs do let you interact with customers?

I don't know how familiar you are with NC headphones, but you can hear voices around you.

 

[Fally]

Im starting to think its easier at work to not wear the ear plugs at this point and just hope for the best.It will probably stick react but im damed if i do and im damed if i dont.

 

[coffee_girl]

Try the swimmers plugs, they have ridges on them and are not so tight that it ends up hurting your ears after a few hours. They're also not too fitted that they will cause intense occlusion effect. Really good for places that are loud but not too loud.

 

[Fally]

Try the swimmers plugs, they have ridges on them and are not so tight that it ends up hurting your ears after a few hours. They're also not too fitted that they will cause intense occlusion effect. Really good for places that are loud but not too loud.

Those are the ones i actually wear I originally got them due to swimming and started wearing them at work.

 

[glynis]

I find noise reduction Pro Plugs work well for myself but I know it's finding out what's best for you.
love glynis

 

[MSF]

Ear plugs do let you interact with customers?

I don't know how familiar you are with NC headphones, but you can hear voices around you.

yes, see OP. I heard people fine, just more quietly. The interesting thing is that I never found my own voice to be annoying or loud, so I'm guessing that either a) I quickly acclimated to it or b) occlusion effect was probably relatively small. In either case, the actual effect on my ears was probably compounded over several hours.

I find noise reduction Pro Plugs work well for myself but I know it's finding out what's best for you.
love glynis

These look perfect actually, and quite affordable. I just ordered a set.

 

[MSF]

I find noise reduction Pro Plugs work well for myself but I know it's finding out what's best for you.
love glynis

Glynis, could you possibly comment on your experience with the Proplugs and the occlusion effect (or lack thereof)? I finally got mine today and notice a little bit of occlusion with them. I have a fairly deep voice and what I am wondering is if this boost in my voice will be damaging if I am wearing them for an 8-hour span.

 

[Rudy R]

Glynis, could you possibly comment on your experience with the Proplugs and the occlusion effect (or lack thereof)? I finally got mine today and notice a little bit of occlusion with them. I have a fairly deep voice and what I am wondering is if this boost in my voice will be damaging if I am wearing them for an 8-hour span.

Actually, for how long is it appropriate to wear earplugs? Like, my right ear is currently super sensitive. I tried to take out the plug during my appointment with my psychologist today but even her voice irritated my ear at times.

What should I do?

 

[juliob]

I also sing and this thread made me over the fence about using ear plugs while singing.

 

[glynis]

@MSF,
I only wear mine for short periods when going out to a loud place on rare occasions so I can not say.
Love glynis

 

[MSF]

Actually, for how long is it appropriate to wear earplugs? Like, my right ear is currently super sensitive. I tried to take out the plug during my appointment with my psychologist today but even her voice irritated my ear at times.

What should I do?

I don't think there is any "maximum" time for wearing earplugs--people wear them while sleeping (~ 8 hrs) with no problem. The issue here is how long is "safe" to use while talking (because of occlusion effect). Apparently the deeper the earplugs are inserted, the less occlusion there is, but I have found it pretty much impossible to get regular foam earplugs in far enough to achieve this.

 

[Rudy R]

I don't think there is any "maximum" time for wearing earplugs--people wear them while sleeping (~ 8 hrs) with no problem. The issue here is how long is "safe" to use while talking (because of occlusion effect). Apparently the deeper the earplugs are inserted, the less occlusion there is, but I have found it pretty much impossible to get regular foam earplugs in far enough to achieve this.

How true is it that plugs also make hyperacusis worse though? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions but this is all too new to me.

 

[MSF]

I think the general idea is that the more you dampen regular, non-harmful outside noises, the more sensitive your ears will actually become. So earplugs could increase your hyperacusis in this way if you wear them all the time. You probably want to read about "habituation" elsewhere on the forum--I think there are a lot of resources there.