Scam? Phase-Out Mobile App

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by erik, Jun 19, 2012.

tinnitus forum
    1. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      I'm skeptical but here it is....

      Mobile app called “Phase-Out” enables people who suffer from tinnitus, or ringing-in-the-ears, to self-treat themselves anytime, anywhere, using an FDA-approved procedure that has a nearly 100% success rate.​

      http://phaseoutapp.com/
       
    2. Karen
      Talkative

      Karen Manager Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Ambassador

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      First time: Noise 2nd Time: Ototoxic drug
      This is exciting news --- if it works! I don't have an I-Phone myself; is anyone out there considering trying this app? It sounds a lot like other sound therapy that is out there, or in development, right now. Will be interested to hear more about it.
       
    3. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      I'm gonna try today.
       
    4. Karen
      Talkative

      Karen Manager Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Ambassador

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      First time: Noise 2nd Time: Ototoxic drug
      Super! Will be interested to hear about your progress.
       
    5. Anthony Kelly

      Anthony Kelly Member

      "I'm skeptical but here it is...."

      Yep Erik there is a whole lot to be skeptical about out there.

      However, on the hopeful side, headsets for pilots have long used "noise cancelling" microphones. This relies one the 180 degrees out of phase technology that appears to be utilized here.

      May well work. We will see when people have tried it out. Meanwhile... fingers crossed and keep up the skepticism.

      Can't wait to see some feedback from users.

      Tony
       
    6. rogi

      rogi Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Discovered this app yesterday and bought it. The app says you only need to use it for 3 days (unless you need more).
      The thing that's really crap about this app is that (for me) it takes ages to match my T. The app will let you match it 6 times so it is more accurate. The problem is that my T is a pretty high hiss and you can't just switch between frequencies. The app will play a sine tone from low frequency to high and you just have to press stop when you think it's the right frequency. So if you're T is within a high frequency range you'll have to wait very long for 6 times.
      This procedure needs to be done every time you start this application.

      Besides the frustration i got from this matching procedure i hope it will help reducing my T as i will try using it.
      Will post my review after some more days of using it.
       
    7. DezDog
      Angry

      DezDog Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2009
      Someone help me out here. Noise-cancelling headsets as used on planes etc, work because they flip the incoming soundwave in *real time*; a microphone records the sound, flips it and plays it to you. The cancellation occurs because you hear both the original signal and the processed signal; as the original wave peaks, the reversed wave troughs, and you get a zero-sum result.

      If I'm correct about this, then from where is the noise cancelling apparatus taking the input signal that it needs to reverse? Tinnitus is (normally?) produced entirely by the mind. There is no way for this device to take that signal, convert it to a waveform and then reverse it. Not in an iPhone app anyway.

      What they *could* be doing is producing notched music/noise, but you'd think they'd be up-front about that.

      They talk about peer reviews, but my bullsh*t detectors are flashing louder and harder than my T.

      If you read this, and you are part of any organisation that seeks to take advantage of people's desperation,
      then F*** YOU.

      I hope I'm wrong and have to apologise.
       
    8. calin
      Inspired

      calin Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Oct 2011
    9. calin
      Inspired

      calin Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Oct 2011
      I have an android, so I will wait for your reports!
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    10. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      I tried this for past 2 days now and all it has done is created a spike in my T -yikes. It is very tedious to set up takes about 25 minutes, then you have to listen to it at 50% volume for 30 minutes and that is way too loud. I couldn't do it at that level it would've cause me hearing damage. The highest volume I could do and stand with the high tones was the first tick on the volume of my iphone. That was plenty loud enough and still caused spikes. Not sure how others responded but not good for me.
       
      • Genius Genius x 1
    11. DezDog
      Angry

      DezDog Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2009
      Erik,

      please make sure you leave feedback at the app store. If you can be bothered, complain and try to get your money back.

      Sorry to hear about the spike, I hope that recedes.

      DD
       
    12. exodus
      Cold

      exodus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2008
      hi there
      i ve bought the app and installed it on my nephew iphone 3,the app is crashing and not working,do you know how to proceed to complain and get refund?
      thanks
       
    13. DezDog
      Angry

      DezDog Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2009
      Hi exodus,

      I'm afraid I've never had to complain or ask for a refund. Here is what Google tells me after a quick search:

      https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3975735?start=0&tstart=0

      You can try try the 'report a problem' link from your purchase history : log into your account on your computer's iTunes via Store > View My Account and you should then see a Purchase History section with a 'see all' link to the right of it ; click on that and you should see a list of your purchases ; find that app and use the 'Report a Problem' button and you should then be able to click on 'report a problem' link to the right of the app.


      I hope this helps​
      DD
       
    14. exodus
      Cold

      exodus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2008
      thanks dezdog

      i ll ask him to do it
       
    15. calin
      Inspired

      calin Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Oct 2011
      so sorry erick!

      Us guinea pigs have to take the good with the bad! Appreciate that you threw yourself to the wolves for us!
       
    16. exodus
      Cold

      exodus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2008
      hi guys

      anyone have tried it for longer period?

      any feedback?
       
    17. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      Hi everyone,

      While tinnitus remains incurable, there are many treatments that promise to lessen its symptoms. As a minor distributor of tinnitus treatments, the Internet has several apps and a few websites that utilize sound therapy. To date, I've tried several apps--all of which worsened (temporarily) my tinnitus. As such, I've been reluctant to post any information. Recently, I found a university study that includes among his authors--the famous Dr. De Ridder. For De Ridder to be included obviously gives the study more credence. But credence doesn't equate with therapeutic--at least, not on the individual level. Still, the app might be worth a try for ten bucks. Please note the reviews on the iTunes site are not promising!

      Here's the link to the study:
      http://www.tinnituscare.net/pdf/Antwerp_Study.pdf

      Here's the link to the app:
      http://phaseoutapp.com/

      (I hope I'm not doing any wrong in posting this. I have NO financial interest in the app. No interest in anything. I'm just passing on what might be useful information.)
       
    18. earflappin

      earflappin Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2011
      I'm curious...are there any mobile apps that fellow T suffers can recommend that package up any/all of the prevailing therapies such as ACRN, notch, etc?
       
    19. Dr. Ancill

      Dr. Ancill Member Clinician

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2013
      Has anyone any experience with the Padden-Chow 'Phase out' procedure which attempts to match tinnitus tones and then send signal 180 degrees out of phase to reduce the level of the tinnitus?
       
    20. olt

      olt Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      As DezDog points out, the fundamental principal behind this device - the cancellation of two equal-but-opposite sound waves (actual, physical, moving-air-up-and-down - or down-and-up waves) - cannot possibly work with Tinnitus, because the Tinnitus itself is not a sound wave, but merely exists in the brain.

      This avenue of approach was long-ago debunked by actual doctors and scientists in this field (see Jastreboff and Hazel's book on TRT), in relation to a similar real-world phenomenon, namely that when two pitches are played that are very, very close to each other you begin to hear an audible pulsing sound due to partial phase-cancellation (the two waves vary between re-enforcing each other, ie getting louder, as they come into phase, and then nearly cancelling each other as they get out of phase) - as when tuning a guitar.

      No such phenomenon occurs when tinnitus sufferers listen to a pitch that is very close to their Tinnitus frequency - again, because the tinnitus noise is not an actual sound wave, and therefore cannot possibly interact with another sound.

      The fundamental 'science' behind this contraption is so obviously bunkum, it's kind of amazing that they dared to build it in the first place!

      Sadly, this appears to be just another example of a company cashing in on the desperation and misery of millions of fellow human beings - after all, with an estimated 3 million people in the US alone currently experiencing serious tinnitus problems, any of these companies only need to persuade 1-2% of them to part with their cash, to generate a reasonable chunk of cash.
       
    21. olt

      olt Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Oh, and sorry for the DP, but there's another telling omission in all the literature, which would be immediately obvious to anyone with any training in the field of audio technology: they talk about 'matching the frequency' of the tinnitus, but there is no mention of determining the alleged wave-FORM of it. I presume their asking us to join in their assumption that it's a sine wave, that can be cancelled by another inverted sine wave. But of course, not only is there no actual sound wave for them to cancel, but even if there was there's no reason to conclude it would be a sine wave - and, of course, they can't claim to have determined that it is a sine wave, because they haven't. So, that side of the equation is conveniently not mentioned at all, on the assumption that most tinnitus sufferers don't have that level of scientific knowledge.
       
    22. SickoMicko
      Arsewit

      SickoMicko Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/02/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection or the medication to cure it.
      Olt, just read your post from April 29th this year about opposite sound waves that have no affect on tinnitus because the sound is not a sound but only a perception of sound. Well I was suckered into purchasing the Neuromonics Oasis device about 10 months ago. Is it based on the same bogus principles or some other bogus principles? My T continues to rage after the 10 months, but I have been able to habituate to the point where I still hear it ( not way not to), but I can push it out of my immediate attention for chunks of time. Thanks. SuckMick
       
    23. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Is it on android?
       
    24. Viking
      No Mood

      Viking Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Italia
      You are right to be skeptical;

      phase-out was an attempt of treatment that i had received in 2006 at the UZA in Belgium without results. A sort of short masking to diagnose and not to treat!

      I had still the email for the invitation;

      We will plan a further diagnostic and therapeutic work-up in our
      department including transcranial magnetic stimulation, promomtory
      stimulation, IV administration of xylocaine and use of a selective, high
      frequency tinnitusmasker (fase-out). This examinations will be sheduled
      in october '06 and we will inform you about our future findings.
      sincerely yours
      Dirk de Ridder
       
    25. RaZaH
      Not amused

      RaZaH Member Benefactor Team Tech

      Location:
      Reykjavík, Iceland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012/04
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Benzo + loud noise
      Also , this is technically impossible. To cancel a sine wave 1khz sine wave you need to be fully out of phase (which is possible) with another 1khz sine , which is impossible. As in ...you need a perfect match to your T freq.
      Even if you achieve that ...this is still impossible.

      Sigh.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    26. tinnitube
      Supportive

      tinnitube Member

      Location:
      Viña del Mar (CHILE)
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2105
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      damn virus
      I came from the wolrd of audio . and Medicine . In audio I build sound equipmente by hand (DIY) I have an electronic lab at my apt :) a Doctor also , have studied electronics also . Thys type of aproach , I dont know (I think no ) if it can work jut because simple tinnitus is like "imagination" I mean , its there but inside your brain , some kind of chemestry going bad . So theory of sound waves , I think it cannot be applied here , like in real audio . :-( , only can teach in theory tones , amplitude etc . Other thing is also that tinnitus matching methods are wrong , because tinnitus is like a band of frecuencyes , like white noise , but much narrower , dont know like 9-10 khz , so better try development a tone generator that can generate bands of sound . So one can match their tinnitus band better for some relief . One thing interesnting should be able to know what kind of wave tinnitus will represent on a scope .
       
    27. lymebite
      Breezy

      lymebite Member Benefactor Team Research

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      From the 2016 Tinnitus Research Initiative (TRI) Conference, the authors claim success using the Padden-Choy Procedure with 84 out of 84 patients treating tinnitus. Has anybody tried this?

      http://tri2016.ihr.mrc.ac.uk/downloads/programme-abstracts-a4-15.pdf

      P75: 84 over 84 consecutive patients with predominant tone tinnitus successfully treated with principles of sound wave cancellation. Choy D., Fioretti A.F., Ludovici C.L. Zukerman Brain science and neuroscience, Columbia University, New York, USA)

      Predominant tone tinnitus appeared in the Egyptian, Grecian, and Chinese medical literature; and for 6000 years has had no effective rx. There are 52 million moderate to severe sufferers in the U.S., 8 documented suicides in Portland, Oregon, and 1 billion patients worldwide. Constructive invention requires unorthodox thinking, and a dash of luck. I was trained in internal medicine and oncology @ Columbia, and had no contact with Otolaryngology. What am I doing at a tinnitus meeting? Together with 2 Italian colleagues, I was able to stop tinnitus in 84/84 consecutive pts with an average drop of 8.8 db averaging 33 months. I hold 17 patents in fields outside of tinnitus: Aeroplast, a spray-on dressing for survivors in atomic attack, the first laser knife, ultrasound imaging, coronary artery laser angioplasty, coronary angiogenesis by i.a. fgf infusion, a lvad with an intraventricular balloon assist device, multiple hearts in barosaurus and squid (lancet), percutaneous laser disc decompression in >8000 cases, and a textbook. A Robert Padden, with herniated discs, successfully treated twice, asked me to cure his "tinnitus" It was my first contact with "tinnitus." Since tinnitus will continue despite severing the 8th n, it had to be in the brain. I thought I had to manipulate the db and pitch, and at the time, only Agilent had a 128 physics lab machine to control db, pitch, and vibration plane. With one of these machines I had Padden self-assess his db, and pitch, and treated him for 1 hour. No effect. Two days later, his 20 year tinnitus disappeared, and lasted 10 years until his death from cancer in 2010. Hence the title: Padden-Choy procedure. Where was the luck? By chance I had landed on his plane of vibration! FDA approval was awarded in 2003. The 1 x a week by every 3 weeks x 6db (50%) produced 61% success rate ww. Then a patient from Texas called: Do I need to stay in NYC for 3 weeks? Very quickly, I answered "No, I'll treat you Monday, Wednesday, Friday - 4 days!" The success rate rose to 81% Luck! 61 to 81% when I shortened the rx period! What if I further shortened it to Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, 3 days in a row? This was only single blind! At 2 months I could no longer wait for a full 6 months! My assistant told me: 20 out of 20! Finally 60 patients showed a full 60 and responded, falling 12.6 db; Dr Fioretti ; 15 pts, 8.9db, ludovico 4/4 8.7 db. 84/84 tells the whole story! We will not claim 100%!
       
    28. matt89
      Studious

      matt89 Member Benefactor Team Tech Team Awareness

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      http://phaseoutapp.com

      Seems it's only available in the AppStore for iPhone devices, can't find it in the Google Play Store.
      Nevertheless the app hasn't been updated since 2012 and all associated social media presences have been either deleted or not updated since 2012.
      Furthermore the "Padden Choy Procedure" was already a topic of the 5th International TRI conference in 2011.
      (http://www.tinnitusresearch.org/en/meetings/files2011/5th TRI Conference PROGRAM.pdf)

      Due to these facts I don't think this is a groundbreaking invention in treating T, but I'm interested as well if some members here have tried it and can share their experiences.
       
    29. undecided
      Fine

      undecided Member

      Location:
      Greece
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown.
      A bit early for April Fool's, isn't it? :asshat:
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    30. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      Instructions are a dead link, support is a dead link, Choy's website link takes you right back to the app page, and
      tinnitus-phaseout.com is a dead domain, but it's available if you want to spend the $10.69/year to let everyone know this is useless.

      How did these scammers get in the 2016 TRI Conference?
       

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