Sleeping Pills

Hey everyone looking for some help. My T recently spiked and not sure if it will diminish. It seems to be a high frequency - electricity like and almost to the point of tingling sensation, is that normal?

Sleeping has gotten tougher so I am taking Xopiclone. It works but gives me weird muscle jitters and shakes in the morning. I am scared as to what to do for sleep...how long can you remain on sleeping pills? I have been reading some horror stories with sleeping pills.

PLEASE NEED HELP.

THANK YOU!

 

Sorry to hear your T spiked....My Doctor prescribed Remeron its a AD but also gives you a great nite of sleep
Hope things get better for you

 

Sleeping pills are a very badidea long term, I'm talking from having years of experience with dependency on zolpidem, a very similar drug to zopiclone. Both are classified as non-benzodiazepine hypnotics, but they work basically exactly the same way normal benzodiazepines do, they just have pronounced hypnotic effects and generally shorter half lives which means they don't stay in your system for as long.

This explains it pretty well:

This specifically references benzodiazepines but this explanation also applies to nonbenzodiazepine drugs like zolpiclone and zolpidem.

What happens is that once your brain becomes reliant on these drugs to enhance GABA in the brain, the body begins to "down regulate" GABA production and you start to experience withdrawal effects: increased anxiety, and a whole bunch of other minor, and more serious symptoms.

So the key is to use these drugs only when you really need to. Otherwise, the best thing to do is to find better ways to sleep.

If you haven't tried melatonin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin), I really would suggest you give it a go. It is surprisingly very effective at inducing sleep. In comparison to other sleeping aids, it is extremely safe to use. Everyone seems to react a bit differently to it, but it does a good job at putting people to sleep - experiment with dosages, most brands recommend a standard dose of 3mg, but there are studies that indicate that lower doses can actually be more effective. It's something you need to play around with.

Other important factors in good sleep are obvious like exercise, proper sleep hygiene, etc.

If you're really struggling, Remeron does seem to get the nod of approval from many members on this board, but I would really try to work on this stuff naturally as best you can, the further you can distance yourself from being dependent on any sort of pharmaceutical, the better.

Hope I haven't scared you, and I also hope this information helps you. The main point of my post is that if you need to use something like zolpiclone to sleep, make sure that you only use it when you need it. It's very easy to fall into a habit of using it every night and then things spiral from there.

The upside of using nonbenzodiazpeines to sleep is that it takes a lot longer for dependency to set in in comparison to standard benzos like valium, xanax, clonazepam, etc. And withdrawals are usually no where near as bad. But it's still something to keep in the back of your mind and watch out for. Also another quick recommendation I can make, from my own experience with zolpidem, is that you should try using lower doses. For example, the standard dose for zolpidem is 10mg per night, when I first started using the drug, I could get to sleep using a quarter of the pill (2.5mg). I would attempt the same with your zolpiclone, try to half or quarter it and see how you sleep. The less you use over time, the better.

Anyway, good luck buddy!

 

My doctor recommended Nytol (the blue one not green) as these dont get addictive. I haven't tired it yet as she only recommended it today,

 

thanks everyone!

 

I agree with @yonkapin although I would like to add that in the long perspective your brain might get addicted to melatonin as well although it of course depends on the dose you take. Therefore do not take that all the time as well. There are some antidepressants that help with sleep too. However most people function even if they haven't slept for a few days. Eventually your body will get tired and the sleep will come on its own. Of course if you do not sleep at all for a week or so you should take smth, but if you do sleep up to 4-5 hours a night it will probably stabilize itsself. So instead of pills and supplements the best approach might be to stay calm and wait.

 

In regards to your reference about melatonin, I need to mention that you actually can't get addicted or dependent to it, unless you were referencing psychological dependency which is all about the user rather than the actual supplement.

There have been numerous studies done on melatonin, and so far it's been shown to not only be very effective at combating insomnia, it also does not lead to any dependency or addiction. Typically when user stops using a pharmaceutical hypnotic, they will experience some form of withdrawal and subsequent rebound insomnia. These symptoms can take weeks or months to rebound from. Whereas with melatonin, it can be used for extended periods of time, stopped without any sort of taper, and no withdrawals or rebound insomnia are experienced. I think this is a big positive and what makes it a suitable solution for insomnia. Plus there are the possible benefits of it's use as a powerful anti-oxidant.

You are very right to be cautious though, and totally agree with you that it should also not be taken all the time either, it should only be used when really needed.

 

The main ingredient of Nytol is diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine) is a first generation antihistamine with pronounced sedative effects. Your doctor is right in that it isn't addictive, however the drug does have numerous side effects.

Do some research on it and approach using it with some caution. I don't think you will have any problems using it sparingly but just be mindful of the side effects. I've also seen diphenhydramine listed on some ototoxic drug lists, but the extent of which it might be ototoxic, if at all (as many drugs get lumped onto ototoxic lists with no real evidence), I have no idea. Something to keep in mind though.

 

@yonkapin I've also not seen evidence that melatonin usage leads to dependency or a down regulation of the body's own natural melatonin production. But I also agree that you should use the lowest effective dose. Be sure to get sustained release. If you don't, you might get up in a few hours because melatonin is short acting and does not keep you asleep.

I confess to also taking diphenhydramine with the melatonin. Typically, I'll take 3 mg sustained release melatonin and 25-50 mg diphenhydramine. Fifty is a full dose for an adult. Anyway, that combination puts me asleep and keeps me there for 7-8 hours. And if I do awake in the middle of the night, I'm able to get back to sleep easily.

Without this combination, I don't sleep. Period. Even before getting tinnitus, I had difficulty falling asleep. After getting tinnitus, sleep doesn't happen without assistance. But I am grateful for the melatonin. I would hate to take sleeping pills. They have terrible side effects, including sleep walking.

About diphenhydramine and ototoxicity, I don't believe it hurts your hair cells. I know the Ototoxic Drugs Exposed book has it on the list--along with maybe 200 other drugs. (Geez, you can't take anything if you rely on that book.) But diphenhydramine sometimes makes my tinnitus slightly louder. Since I only take 1-2 pills a night, however, I'm not worried. At least not for now.

 

basically what happens when one uses melatonin is that your brain gets used to getting from outside and is too lazy to procude it. Of course that only happens if you use bigger doses and all the time. At least thats what my psychiatrist told me and advised me not to use it too much. Also, in my experience sleeping with pills is never as natural and enjoyable as normal sleep. Therefore just wait till you tire out and follow simple tips for sleep hygene. I find that having a regular sleeping schedule helps me a lot.

 

I am envious of people who have no problems sleeping - I was on zopiclone at the beginning of my T journey as I sent days and days without sleep - but the Doc controlled what I took very closely to prevent dependency - they give you a quick fix - you get some sleep but you do need to try to retrain yourself into sleeping.

I understand how hard that is - currently still on that road myself - I wake most nights and have strategies to help get back to sleep, but I have found the biggest hurdle is accepting that some nights 4-5 hours sleep is OK other nights I get more and I feel great - the next night maybe back to very broken sleep - but I am in general getting enough sleep to cope.

But sleeping pills are 100% only a temp fix - make sure your really really tired before going to bed so when you do go you hopefully drop off quickly - that has been one tip that has helped me !

Cher x