Somatic Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Support' started by carlover, Dec 13, 2012.

    1. Sound Wave
      Curious

      Sound Wave Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably headphones
      Has anyone used EMG (Electromyography) devices as a biofeedback tool to learn to control muscles possibly related to somatic T? I am investigating this and TENS devices (separate thread) with my T. Home EMG devices seem to be hard to find. Here's instructions for one DIY set. Maybe I should heat up my soldering iron... :)

      http://www.instructables.com/id/EMG-Biofeedback/
       
    2. Sound Wave
      Curious

      Sound Wave Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably headphones
    3. RaZaH
      Cheeky

      RaZaH Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Reykjavík, Iceland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012/04
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Benzo + loud noise
      I always get slightly confused about this somatic T issue , seems that most T is somatic as in that most people with T can modulate their T with their jaw or by pushing their forehead. So I gather that somatic T is just....Tinnitus.
       
    4. rickycyh

      rickycyh Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2014
      but some ppl don't have somatic component, i'm wondering if that's possible to categorize our members to different groups based on their symptom.. As i found some treatment like ACRN, Food supplement seems to have certain improvement on some members here, if we know more what we have in common, it would be much easier to identify the best treatment for each of us...

      i remember there is a survey for us to collect this kind of information, but i'm not sure if there would be some Business Intelligence tools to have some analysis about this...
       
    5. RaZaH
      Cheeky

      RaZaH Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Reykjavík, Iceland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012/04
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Benzo + loud noise
      Good idea ! Actually I am of the opinion that the effects of diets and supplements are marginal, that might just be me?
      I have found that coffee and alcohol make a difference, apart from that ....nothing has any effect as far as I can tell ?
      Its so easy to think that because I ate a banana yesterday my T is better or worse today and I think that would always mess up such data gathering. Especially the first years when you are constantly searching for cures and imagining all kinds of weird causations. My personal opinion is that T is waxing and waning all the time , making you think all kinds of weird stuff is "working" God knows I have been there. I wish we could remove all the "Noise" and get some proper data on this.
      Pun intended.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    6. seppl
      Cool

      seppl Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      When i clench my teeth the tinnitus is going quieter. Is this normal?? Because all people with tinnitus I know, there T is going louder. Sorry for the bad english.
       
    7. martin12

      martin12 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      3/13/2014
      I may attempt biofeedback in coming weeks. Somatic Tinnitus, amongst other things can stand for tinnitus from neck/head injury. Correct?
       
    8. Mal
      Wishful

      Mal Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cinema speakers
      I just now learned the term 'Somatic Tinnitus', and I also have it. That is, when I use my jaw/neck muscles, I hear a spiking tinnitus.

      However, I have always been able to provoke this sound with my jaw even when I didn't have tinnitus. So my noise induced tinnitus works completely independent of my somatic tinnitus, and I'm quite sure, that any improvements to my somatic T will do nothing for my noise induced T, and back in time I didn't think of my 'jaw noise' as tinnitus.
       
    9. KEMAL.66
      Busy

      KEMAL.66 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 years
      I can modulate my tinnitus to higher pitch through clenching jaws even though I don't have T.M.J. disorder.
       
    10. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      Somatic T is caused by organs (in this case muscles) dysfunction. In this case we're normally talking about trigger points in muscles.

      Modulating existing T with somatic (muscle action) does not necessarily mean the underlying T is somatic. The reason is because there are multiple layers of input into the auditory centers and what you hear as T is the summation of all these inputs.

      Therefore, adding another layer of T on top of you T from other sources can modulate your total perceived T.

      However, there are sources of T which are totally somatic and if you have no other sources of T feeding into our auditory center then eliminating the somatic T will mean you have no other T, or total T.

      I have about 3 T sounds in each ear, but I suspect that one T in my right ear may be totally somatic. That is because I have chronic jaw muscle pain in that side (masseter muscle). I also have chronic neck, mid/upper back and head/face pain issues.

      The muscles known to cause T are the lateral pterygoid, masseter and SCM. Others may directly as well, or indirectly. Almost a dozen muscles are studied in somatic T studies and they are many of the muscles of neck, face and mid/upper back.

      The most common form of T is somatic. This is the T that will last about 15 seconds and be very loud. I've gotten that all my life, often with an awkward neck position. I would simply move my neck around and the T would go away. This T may or may not involve trigger points, or maybe it is the momentary activation of latent trigger points which are not highly active and causing any other pathology.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    11. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      30/12/13
      How many of you hear white noise and can modulate your t with facial movements?
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    12. Sound Wave
      Curious

      Sound Wave Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably headphones
      • Like Like x 1
    13. Ray Seddon
      Amused

      Ray Seddon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Western Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      1985
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unprotected hearing damage
      Deb I have white and a higher pitch in both ears. Recently had treatment from a Chiro who does my neck alignments and the T was worse after - he also gave me an exercise to push one side of the jaw and brace muscles against the push - this caused a significant increase in volume so I stopped it. No offence to my Chiro - he was only trying to help and has made my neck livable, which it wasn't before...
       
    14. Ray Seddon
      Amused

      Ray Seddon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Western Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      1985
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unprotected hearing damage
      Sorry should have made it clearer - the treatment was extra to my neck, it was aligning my jaw which he said was a bit out to one side. This treatment was separate to my normal neck alignment, which doesn't affect my T at all but means I can move my head... heh heh.
       
    15. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Very interesting indeed.

      I have a couple of arduinos at home, and found a few cheap EMG sensors on ebay, including shields.

      I might give this one a try :)
       
      • Like Like x 1
    16. Sound Wave
      Curious

      Sound Wave Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably headphones
      ^ do try! That would be excellent DIY spirit! :)
       
    17. Ray Seddon
      Amused

      Ray Seddon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Western Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      1985
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unprotected hearing damage
      Really enjoyed the video by Dr Salvi although much of it went over my head. I was so absorbed my T almost disappeared and stayed quiet for hours after. Don't know if it was the concentration or the hope it gave that there are people out there with incredible brains looking for a solution for this crazy thing we call T.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    18. Mark Griffin
      Depressed

      Mark Griffin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
    19. martin12

      martin12 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      3/13/2014
      I have somatic tinnitus in my right ear for which i can adjust the volume of the T by clenching my teeth, moving my neck to left/right and when i yawn.

      It's over 3 months now and i'm wondering if this is permanent condition or if it's worth my time going to the root of the cause (neck/jaw/head) ? All hearing tests perfect. T came on after an accident where i injured my jaw/neck and head.

      Thanks ALOT for your time.
       
    20. 00JohnD
      Amazed

      00JohnD Member

      Location:
      Montréal, Québec, Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2014
      I do! Mine is also white noise, but when it's really loud it kinda become white noise mixed with a high pitch noise.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    21. Ervan
      Blah

      Ervan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2014
      Heloo everyone.. Im newbie here..
      I read a thread in this forum, and i decide that i am somatic tinnitus..
      Because my T louder when i clench my jaw or especially wiggle fore..
      My questions:
      1. Did i really somatic tinnitus?
      2. Any treatment or medics for somatic tinnitus?
      3. Is there any one of you experienced the same thing as me?

      Im sory for my bad english.. Thank you,GOD bless us..
       
    22. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      Another possibility in cases such as mine is the following hypothesis I have come up with:

      Muscle pain may actually be caused by nerve damage to nerves that share bi-directional communication with the muscles and auditory system.

      The dorsal cochlear nucleus DCN if damaged may increase the sensory input from the somatic (muscle) connected to it.

      The result may be chronic pain in that muscle and tinnitus.

      This would include muscles of the face and appear as tmj syndrome.

      So I hypothesize tmj may not be the cause of tinnitus, but a result of nerve damage in a segment closer to the somatic connection as in the DCN.

      This does not sound good, but it has occurred to me.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    23. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      How did you get your T if I may ask?
       
    24. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      It is a super long story and complicated with some things known and others unknown. I can tell you more details, but here is the short version:

      I had chronic pain at the base of my skull in the back, bad burning chest pain and pain between my shoulder blades. My neck felt stiff all the time, but I could move it fine. It started around the time I had orthodontics from invisalign, but it could have been from something else.

      I got impatient because the doctors could not find the cause of the bad burning chest pain and I tried something I bought online for pain which I now know was dangerous. It was far off the normal paths of what a person would normally order. I searched and talked to people and found out by word of mouth.

      After I took this stuff it did something or triggered an event that caused my tinnitus. After I took it I developed many health problems in the head area. I developed electric shocks in the side of the head, balance problems, TMJ problems, face pain problems, numbness under the eyes that would come and go and yes tinnitus too.

      I also have paresthesias all over my body that feel like cold wet water, burning or stinging. I have chronic neck stiffness and trigger points issues over many muscles in my back, arms, hip etc.

      I had the water sensations years before in my legs when I had the muscle pain before it spread to the face and got the tinnitus. The water stuff lasted a year or more back then and then went away.

      I eventually tried antibiotics for lyme disease for a "Lyme disease doctor" he gave me antibiotics and that is when the water sensations came back all over 4 years after being gone. I stopped antibiotics after 6 months and don't know if I have it or not or what to do. They got worse after that. They flare up from either upper respiratory infections or maybe something with the neck. When that happens I get burning sensations all over and stinging. That lasts a month or two and then it is mostly water. I also have adult onset eczema now after taking the antibiotics, but don't know the cause. I'm hoping that is from detergent somehow or maybe if I'm more sensitive to something now so at least it can be avoided from a food trigger or something.

      The stuff I took had alkaloids that agonize receptors which do exist in the ear, spiral ganglion and things like that, so that is why I was wondering if it caused direct damage.

      I didn't have any TMJ, temple pain, face pain, numbness or anything like that until I took that stuff and had an adverse reaction of extreme nausea and pain. For a long time I assumed it was the trauma of the event that caused me to develop full blown TMJ dysfunction and so the tinnitus was not from direct damage, but I have no idea. I also wonder if it is lyme disease or other infections, but every possible condition is extremely complex with few answers.

      I think I'm going to try upper cervical atlas work. I already saw many TMJ doctors. I'm unsure what I may do there. I tried an appliance for almost 3 months called an anterior repositioning device and it didn't work in that time. Lyme could cause TMJD and TMJD could then cause tinnitus. Or lyme could cause tinnitus directly on the trigeminal nerves. There are many possibilities. I may not have lyme disease at all or any infections.
       
    25. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Hi, and thanks for such a detailed reply :)

      I can relate to a lot of what you have experienced.. Especially about chronic pain in the shoulder and neck area before onset of T. I also had stinging headaches a while before I got it.. The facial pain as well..
      I too did suspect lyme disease, but the test came back negative.

      Luckily I was able to memorize a few events. Especially that it all seems so related to driving my car, as that was the only times I experienced a host of what I would call weird symptoms, being tinnitus, stinging headaches, shoulder pain etc.. But as time went on, the symptoms didnt just go away within a couple of minutes to a couple of hours after I went out from my car.. They kind of emerged and somehow became more chronic.. But when you say pain between your shoulder blades, I recall that very vividly before the onset of my T as well..

      I would think it could be a coincidence that your T started after taking the alkaloids though, as your experiences you had before the onset of T seems so darn familiar.. I mean, we do stuff on a daily basis.. But who knows.

      Do you recall any temporarily events that set off your pain before the onset of your T?

      But really, when I think about it, the pain between your shoulder blades you are talking about, I developed that about a month or two before the onset of my T, and I have never had that kind of pain before.. And I remember I found it very annoying and kind of thought it would go away.. It did get a little better, but its still painful when I press on the disk using my fingers.. And its located in the C5/C6 area.. And now when I pressed it, I got a funny sensation in the right part of my face.. Could be a coincidence, but I do find it very interesting that you had just the same stuff before the onset of your T.

      Actually, touching that spot seems to aggravate some kind of a weird headache as well, but so does a couple of spots in my neck.. Ive had that thought before though, that it could be related to my T, but I kind of dismissed it, as it was located kind of at the bottom of my neck..

      Another thing I found out yesterday, is that I have this enormous tender spot arund my xiphoideus (the kind of bony structure that sticks out at the bottom front of the rib cage). Is that something you can relate to as well?

      But that being said, I actually think the shoulder pain started before my neck pain and stinging headaches, so it could very well be something fuzzy to that spot. And I have never had any health problems in the past. All tests are fine, and clinically Im in top shape (yeah, go figure) :p

      I have been abusing my back a lot though, as in static wrong postures etc..

      Also, I have the sensation of electrical jolts around my body from time to time. In my arms and legs as well..

      @chronicburn and @Sjtof

      Im just curious if you guys have had that pain between your shoulder blades as well before the onset of T?
      Also, do you have extreme tender spots around your xiphoideus?
       
    26. applewine
      Curious

      applewine Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ME/CFS, Dysautonomia
      I have no tender spot near my xiphoideus. I do have a neurological thing near the edge of my rib cage on the right side. It will feel like itching or tingling sometimes, but it is neurological, not skin. It could be trigger point induced, I don't know.

      The lower trapezius trigger points are called "the joker" because they can refer all the way up to the back of the neck. From there you can have all kinds of things.

      The thing that made my muscle pain worse was drinking a lot of alcohol. If I drank a lot the burning pain in my chest would come back and last for 6 months 24/7. I found that was a trigger for making my pain worse. The pain in the chest was probably not related to the stomach as stomach tests were negative and medication did not work. It could have been refereed pain from the back or muscular skeletal pain.

      The best test for lyme disease right now may be the C6 ELISA. There are at least three antibody tests for lyme disease. The old ELISA test is not testing for the IgG antibody to a C6 antigen amino acid sequence. It is testing against something else IgG and I don't know what. Antigen tests will come out in 2014 and 2015. There have never been antigen tests proven to work for lyme before and antigens are normally better for diagnosis.

      The C6 ELISA is what is used for dogs and horses, etc. and humans can get it too. It is far from good, but may be the best. Otherwise some people are jumping right to the western blot from specialty labs like Stony Brook or even IgenX. IgenX is a whole story so don't go jumping on that until you know the details and how to read their tests. They also report positive according to different standard than the CDC, so it may be false positive depending on what scientific conclusions you think you can determine.

      I just got the C6 test for the first time after finding out about it. I don't have the results yet. I think anything above a 30U/ml (.30?) is considered positive for non-humans and anything above a .9 (90U/ml?) is considered positive for humans. If you are below .9 in humans it is a "psychological condition" in humans, but a positive for non-humans. That is part sarcasm and part true. I think I have those numbers right, but the decimal formatting is different on the human test.

      Even if the test is positive you may not be positive and if you actually have it you may not be able to cure it, or it is a false positive. So, welcome to even more confusion and complications.
       
    27. Sjtof
      Digging it

      Sjtof Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
      @Mr. Cartman

      Nop I don't have any tender spots there.
      But I do have painfull spots between my shoulder blades. Actually quite painfull when i press them.
       
    28. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @Sjtof and @applewine

      Thats interesting as well.. You remember that belt you were talking about?

      I made my own (until I get the one I ordered from eBay for $4). I used a strap, like the ones you use for strapping things on the roof of your car, and pulled it around my arms and shoulders and around my back and tightened it up, so my shoulders were not able to be in a forward position. And yes, that did something for a lot of the weird nerve firing going on.. The T has also calmed down a lot.. Weird as it is.. I will use it for the entire day tomorrow and see what happens.. Only used it for like 3 hours today.. Now I have to figure out a way to sleep without bending my shoulders forward..

      I hope you are doing alright mate :)
       
    29. chronicburn
      Confused

      chronicburn Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2014
      Yeah i do have that extreme painful spot when pressed at the xiphoideus, also i've had a pain between my shoulderblades, but always radiating a little bit to the right or left, quite regularly since before T, don't know how long i've had that, i think since not very long before onset, it probably came up slowly, but i can't recall that. I must say it has been gone since a week or 2. (probably because of physio). I don't know what to make of that tender spot at the xyphoid, sometimes when pressing it i get a tingling feeling in my left temple, but i wouldn't know how it would relate. Isn't that spot supposed to be a bit painful always? It is abnormal in my case but just thinking.

      I've also been tested for lyme too, it was negative, the rest of my bloodwork and all was fine too. I'm "clinically healthy" as well.

      Aside from this all i suddenly remembered a very likely contributing cause to my T and all today, about 2-3months before onset of continuous T, and most certainly before the occasional T and stinging pains etc... started (or when i began noticing and remembering them at least), i was riding my motorcycle at moderate speed, and had to brake very suddenly for a passing car, i was driving on wet surface and thus my forewheel slided and i smacked on the ground very hard with my head and shoulders, so my neck made a very sudden and hard movement to the left side (so my worst T side hit the ground, to put it in perspective). I recall having some very minor injurys and i luckily wore a helmet, so i stood up and walked to the side with my motorcycle, having no pains or such in the neck/head (miraculously), but about a few secs after i stood up i became really dizzy, sweating, a bad nausea, heart palpitations, and a very loud high pitched distorted T(it dominated everything i was hearing at that moment), i sat on a bench for like an hour or so feeling so crappy, after that it all slowly faded away over a couple of hours, i remember still hearing the T slighly before going to sleep that day, next morning i forgot about it and it disappeared or went down to an normally unhearable level, and i carried on with whatever i was doing but it is weird that it were a lot of the symptoms i still experience today, regularly, and a T that sounds somewhat like that T continuously.
      I made the stupid decision to not go to the doctor after that accident, so i don't know if it's related but i'm pretty sure it at least contributed. As i was astonished my neck and head felt healthy after they made such a hard smack to the ground( with helmet but still). Don't know what it's worth, and don't know what to do about it. there also is something called "late whiplash syndrome" and it accounts for quite some symptoms we're experiencing. It doesn't mention nausea, but i'm sure i've never felt so nauseated for an hour or more as right after that accident, i was on the verge of puking the whole time. I feel like this might have triggerd some muscle inflammations/tension, or dislocated muscles i don't know, but i'm gonna mention it to my physio next time.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    30. Mr. Cartman
      Artistic

      Mr. Cartman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Hi :)

      I would think that it could very well contribute to your T as well..
      Luckily you came out alive!

      I think the pain around the xiphoideus could be very common.. But not as severe as in my case..
      I guess its caused by tension.. When you are tensing your stomach muscles all the time..

      Also, its now 4 of us that got very much similar symptoms, and we all got a very tender spot between our shoulder blades that appeared slightly before the onset of our T..

      Also, the position I told you about with two pillows under my shoulders face down sometimes eliminated my T..
      This could very well be it though.. Could be some inflammation going on as well indeed..

      Im considering trying some anti-inflammatoric gel on that spot just to see what happens..
       

Share This Page

Loading...