Taking Clonazepam as Opposed to Prednisone for Noise Exposure: I've Had Good Results

Discussion in 'Support' started by Liam_Cairns, Sep 26, 2020.

    1. Liam_Cairns

      Liam_Cairns Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Originally loud Music and was worsened by Micro-suction
      Hi everyone, I just thought I would share my experience with you guys as some of you with a more aggressive form of tinnitus like myself may find it helpful. For some context, my tinnitus tends to worsen quite easily from noises tending to be above 100 dB. As I've learned, I'm just a bit more sensitive to sound than the average person, as I'm guessing most of you are as well.

      Through trial and error I think I might have come up with a better solution than popping prednisone for non-serious or moderate acoustic traumas. Now I want to make it very clear in the case of exposure to extremely loud noise such as a gunshot or firecrackers and the like where an individual finds hearing has actually dropped I would personally advise they seek help from their GP and possibly get a prescription of Prednisone to help mitigate some of the auditory damage.

      However, what I'm talking about today are the exposure sounds that may aggravate people with hyperacusis and cause increases in tinnitus whether that be a permanent or temporary increase. However, they do not suffer any kind of detectable hearing loss on an audiogram, unlike the previously mentioned scenarios which would likely result in a loss of hearing.

      What I have found is that by using one-off high doses of Clonazepam I am able to mitigate any increase in tinnitus that I would otherwise suffer from exposure to sounds that I would define as causing a mild acoustic trauma. Normally the doses I use are considerably quite high as I'll immediately take around 4 mg in these kinds of scenarios along with all the other classic supplements such as NAC, GABA and high dose curcumin so I expect that if any of you end up trying this you may feel quite drowsy and a bit groggy for a day and a bit. However in my personal experience, this is a much better trade-off than taking Prednisone especially when the situation probably does not warrant it. I understand this won't be for everyone and probably won't work for everyone, however if it can provide an alternative to taking a drug as dangerous as Prednisone I'm just glad it will have helped someone else who is in a similar situation to myself.

      Now I'm not exactly sure why it works for me, however,I believe it's due to Clonazepam's antiepileptic properties and I have a feeling that by taking really high doses in these situations you prevent the auditory cortex from going into overdrive as I'm guessing it does in these situations. I also want to make it very clear that Clonazepam is a drug that should be respected and not used willy-nilly as addiction to it is a very real thing and can cause people significant problems during withdrawal such as ironically an increase to their already existing tinnitus.

      Apologies for how wordy this is, I just wanted to cover all my bases. I hope this doesn't break any terms of use and I understand if this post may be inappropriate for this forum as is no real scientific evidence backing up what I'm saying.

      I hope you're all doing well and keep on fighting and doing your best.

      Thanks,
      Liam
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    2. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Clonazepam is well known to temporarily suppress tinnitus in many people and anxiety in basically everyone, and last for days (30-50hr half life, single doses detected in urine as much as 30 days later). I don't know if you've discovered much besides "Clonazepam does the thing it's sold to do"

      Benzos are generally dangerous, and you're basically describing binge behavior, which is substantially more dangerous and potentially damaging than regular intake, at least in a number of studies.

      On the other hand I think prednisone often provokes severe anxiety reactions and 75% of the times people here take it, it's unwarranted.

      You're going to have a hell of a time getting a doctor to work a clonazepam script for "4mg PRN" though... just be careful. Taking doses that high, you could easily end up with an accidental dependence. (I would expect 4mg taken once every 14 days to lead to dependence, tolerance and withdrawal in most people, over a long enough time frame).

      Klonopin is going to be harder than prednisone for most people to source, too. Getting back on a regular script in our woke post fentanyl drugs-are-bad world wasn't even that straightforward for me and I have cofactors and an extensive history with the drug.

      It might be worth attempting this experiment with relatively high dose gabapentin (900mg?) instead of the benzo. Could have a similar effect with a lower risk profile, though, of course you'd better all your doctor.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    3. Kriszti

      Kriszti Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016/2017/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I apologize in advance that this is slightly off topic.

      @linearb

      Do you know whether effectiveness and dosage are connected to the patient's weight? So if a person is overweight, do they need more than a skinny person? Or absolutely unrelated?

      I sometimes take Frontin (a Xanax genericum), but 0,25mg-0,75 mg does nothing for me besides taking out the metallic component from my tinnitus for a couple of hours. Can't sleep better and my anxiety is not better. Tried Clonazepam as well, just 0,25 mg twice, but it did even less than the Frontin.
       
    4. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      @linearb

      Yeah, doctors suck now. That’s why we have the internet lol. Phenibut and Etizolam available any time.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Funny Funny x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    5. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      I've read Etizolam is similar to a benzo but slightly different - does it have the same downsides e.g. can make tinnitus worse upon withdrawal, long term screwing up your brain?
       
    6. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      It has all the same downsides.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    7. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Liam_Cairns

      Liam_Cairns Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Originally loud Music and was worsened by Micro-suction
      Yeah I totally understand your point, benzos are incredibly dangerous, I know you have had you own struggles with them and fully understand that they are something that need to be respected but for someone like me it's great because I only need to use it probably once every three weeks or so, as those kinds of sound insults are not common for me to experience, but like I know for a fact that when I don't use it my tinnitus permanently increases and when I do it doesn't, so by saying "Clonazepam does the thing it's sold to do" I don't think you are getting it, as it's meant to only temporarily suppress tinnitus and there is no way that it would do that for six weeks straight after a single dose which is what I have experienced.

      Yeah, Gabapentin might be an alternative but I'm not sure if you can use it like that, and I definitely don't want to become a regular user of it.

      And in regards to Prednisone as my neuropsych said, Prednisone is just really dangerous in so many different ways and popping 4mg of Clonazepam vs a 5-day course of 60mg of Prednisone is way safer. I mean the effects of accumulative dosing can be devastating long term.

      I guess it's just a case of the lesser of two evils.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. bobthebuilder

      bobthebuilder Member

      Location:
      northeast US
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      stress, sleep deprivation, amitriptyline (?), ptsd (?)
      Thanks for posting your experience with this. Great to know, and I only wish I would’ve heard it a bit sooner!

      Just got off a 10-day course of prednisone after a big spike (literally after watching Tenet) that unfortunately didn’t do much for the spike (my tinnitus now permanently higher) but did a number on my blood sugar and other side effects.

      If only I would’ve known to try Klonopin... which I have a bunch of (but haven’t touched in years for the concerns linearb mentioned)... RIP.

      Sharing our experiences with these drugs is only going to help improve our collective knowledge. Thank you for your service.
       
    9. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      No one "knows these things for a fact"; individual anecdotal experience is worthless, it's why we need RCTs for drugs. When I was still thinking about my tinnitus on a regular basis, the list of things I was absolutely, 100% convinced impacted it one way or the other was enormous.

      There are no documented mechanisms by which benzodiazepines following noise trauma would lead to a permanent or long term benefit, and it's not as though this hasn't been studied. It's certainly possible you have some highly unusual brain chemistry or genetic anomoly that puts you in a fundamentally situation than most of the world.

      Also, it's 100% possible to become dependent on Clonazepam by taking it only every 2-3 weeks. Whether this occurs at 4mg, or not, is a different story -- but, repeatadly bombing your BDZ receptors with relatively high dose benzos, over a long period of time, is going to cause structural brain changes. Again, plenty of data to back that up.

      To be real clear I have no problem with what you're doing if it's helpful to you, I just don't think the idea that "high dose BDZ therapy following noise trauma prevents hearing loss and tinnitus" is generally applicable or reasonable, based on the pretty extensive wealth of data we have from the last 40 years.

      Like I said, I take Klonopin every day, but it's about the last thing I encourage.

      Why on earth....?

      I'd consider taking gabapentin daily about sixteen times safer than what you're doing with Klonopin, because most people withdraw from gabapentin pretty easily, and the number of horror stories I've read that started with "so, I was using Klonopin every 2-3 weeks for a while, and then suddenly...." are in the hundreds if not thousands by this point (an artifact of being active on benzo boards for 20 years, of course).

      If you had bombed out on gabapentin and it just didn't work, that's one thing, but why jump for the vastly more dangerous drugs as a first line of defense if you haven't even tried a number of safer options?
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    10. Carlos1

      Carlos1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Root Canal
      @linearb,

      So you're not on 2 mg of Klonopin anymore?

      I'm still on .5 mg going on 6 years along with 300 mg x2 of Gabapentin.
       
    11. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Tempted to follow suit on this.
       
    12. Carlos1

      Carlos1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Root Canal
      It was a life saver for me.
       
    13. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Isn't there a theory (not sure if substantiated) that tinnitus is partially rooted in memory and benzos basically stop it being hardcoded so to speak? I could swear I've read that somewhere on here.
       
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Liam_Cairns

      Liam_Cairns Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Originally loud Music and was worsened by Micro-suction
      Yeah, nah I totally get it, I took Valium for two weeks at the start of the year, only 5mg a day and I had a fucking horrible withdrawal. These drugs are dangerous.

      And sorry, I should have made my point on Gabapentin more clear. I am honestly just real worried about trying new drugs as it seems that there's like a 50/50 chance it worsens my tinnitus, even when I have taken similar drugs that haven't caused any increase. Maybe one day I'll get the confidence to give it a try but right now I just don't want to cause myself more issues by throwing something new in the mix. But I do understand why it might actually be safer and possibly more efficacious as it is a first-line anticonvulsant. Just wish I didn't have to take any drugs at all to be honest, but I guess that's just life sometimes.

      Oh and just to make it real clear, I don't think Clonazepam stops hearing loss or helps with it in any way, it's just stopping my tinnitus from increasing that's all. And normally I'll actually just take Melatonin as my first-line defense as it seems to sometimes help, which probably gives more validity to the idea of using Gabapentin as Melatonin has some weak anticonvulsant properties.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    15. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      @Liam_Cairns, reports of ear issues from Gabapentin are pretty rare but they're definitely out there; everything is a crapshoot. I have a friend who was doing well on Gabapentin + Klonopin and has an extensive history with Klonopin so that made me a little more cavalier.

      It's interesting that you bring up melatonin; the feedback loops by which melatonin and serotonin get made from each other are also interesting, and serotonin definitely has an impact on my tinnitus. 5-ht2a agonists can have a suppressive or enhancing effect on my tinnitus.

      Melatonin never really seems to, though I haven't taken it in a long time.
       
    16. Star64
      Kick ass

      Star64 Member

      Location:
      Melbourne Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Hi Kriszti, Thought you may like to have a read of this article, it might answer some of your questions. Please remember these drugs are very dangerous and should only be used short term, they are not the answer for chronic insomnia.

      https://medsask.usask.ca/documents/Benzodiazepine-Dosing-in-Obesity.pdf
       
    17. Kriszti

      Kriszti Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016/2017/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Thank you, @Star64!

      I promise, I won't abuse them. I'm just still not sleeping...
       
      • Like Like x 1
    18. aot
      Bookworm

      aot Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016. Worsened 11/2019.
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound induced, worsened due to noise expouse + flu.
      Does Clonazepam affect Visual Snow or Hyperacusis in anyway, positive or negative?
       
    19. Selah1281

      Selah1281 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      This is my personal experience, YMMV. Dosage 1 mg daily from the beginning.

      When I first started taking it my hyperacusis reduced to where it was basically like not having hyperacusis. This is no longer the case after over a year and I can’t say for sure what effect it currently has on it if any. That level of relief only lasted a couple months at best.

      It also significantly reduced my tinnitus to “plug your ears” to hear it level. Again, this only lasted for several months.

      It didn’t improve or worsen my visual snow. It may have some effect on making me care less about it or it could just be that I’m much more bothered by my tinnitus, hyperacusis & TTTS to focus any attention on it. Before I developed ear issues the visual snow bothered me really bad. Now, really only if I’m outside at a park with a big clear skyline.

      Now, it’s only consistent benefit I’m positive of is it continues to help me as a sleep aide.

      I’m ready to be done with it, but I’m scared of withdrawal worsening my symptoms. I’m already walking a tightrope as a father and looking at rejoining the work force so it’s hard to start a taper.

      There are a bunch of negatives for me. I feel that it definitely dulls me mentally. I read / write things wrong all the time, have lots of episodes of aphasia / mixing up words, clouds my creativity. I also think it negatively impacts my depression and suicidality.

      Just to add, I’ve always had lots of side effects from meds and paradoxical reactions so that could contribute to my issues with it.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    20. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      I've been taking .5 in the morning and night for seven months. Everyone on here has all these horror stories but it seems to help me. I wish I didn't have to take it but it helps.
       
    21. Carlos1

      Carlos1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Root Canal
      It's also a horror story living with TEEE every day so we kind of have to pick our poison IMHO.
      Stay Strong Gb3 .

      God Bless

      Carlos
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    22. Stu1983
      Studious

      Stu1983 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Around 2008/spiked Dec 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2008 sound/ 2018 Meds made the volume several times worse
      Hi @linearb. I hope you, the wife and kid are doing well and staying strong during this difficult time.

      I need some advice and always appreciate your wisdom on the threads. I noticed this post and it concerned me a bit because I've used Klonopin every 2 weeks at 3 mg for the that last 6 months or so because it silences my severe tinnitus for the day and really gives me a psychological break that I need sometimes.

      I was under the impression that 2 weeks was sufficient to let it out of my system. I don't feel any different during the 2 weeks that I don't take it.

      How often can I take this dose safely (or any dose) without risking dependence on it? Should I lower it 0.5 mg every 2 weeks or just let it wash out of my system completely and use it less?

      I should note that I am dependent on and alternate a low dose of Lorazepam and Zopiclone for sleep daily. I don't want to take any of this to be honest bro but it is my weapon of choice only because it works.

      Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

      love and respect
      Stu
       
    23. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Hi, and thanks for the well wishes -- we are doing about as well as could be expected right now, so I have little to complain about compared to many friends and associates and family members, thanks!

      One thing to note here -- all the benzos have some (substantial) cross tolerance. The main thing that differentiates most of them is just how long they act. Klonopin is a little different, because in addition to the GABA-α receptor subunit that all the benzos act at, it also acts at GABA-β. That might explain why it has some action on tinnitus other benzos may not, who knows.

      Because of the really long half life, one way to sort of gut check is to figure out average daily dose. If you're taking 3mg every 14 days, the long term metabolism of that ends up looking not entirely dissimilar to taking 0.2mg a day. The basic math is that Klonopin is 10-20x as potent as valium, so that converts to a valium dose of 2-4 mg a day, which is not especially high, but is also within a zone where tolerance develops.

      You mentioned daily use of lorazepam or zopiclone -- because these things are cross-tolerant, you clearly have some kind of tolerance and dependence on them. (Z-drugs are called "non-benzo", but this is a bit of a misnomer, I'd call them "nonselective benzo agonists" because they do hit the benzo receptor subunit, they just push some other buttons as well).

      My first thought is, don't worry too much -- the doses you're talking about aren't outrageous. But, you no doubt have some tolerance to all this, and the process of getting off if you wanted to would probably involve going very slowly and bearing some amount of pain with a grin.

      I can't really answer your broader question about how worried to be about the Klonopin, specifically. It's interacting with all these other things, and I'm not a pharmacologist.

      If you're getting all this stuff from qualified medical providers who are comfortable writing it, and you're woke to the possibilities of what withdrawal will be like if & when you need to, then it's just a cost/benefit analysis. I hate taking any of this garbage but for the moment I think I benefit more than not.

      Worrying about being on anti-worry drugs is the worst, right? Hugs man.
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    24. Stu1983
      Studious

      Stu1983 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Around 2008/spiked Dec 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2008 sound/ 2018 Meds made the volume several times worse
      Hey bro and thanks for the response.

      I'm sorry as my intentions weren't so clear running on 3 hours of sleep due to work. I am staying on the Lorazepam and Zopiclone as the benefit outweighs the risk at this point in my life for sleep.

      Regarding the Clonazepam though this is what I'd like to stop or slowly stop taking if it's going to build up in my system or if it already has. How often can I take Clonazepam safely then? I'm guessing once a month from the math? Is it safe to just jump off it as such a small dose is in me? Or like I did today, cut 0.5 mg and do the same every 2 weeks or so? What do you think? Any advice?

      This is frustrating as all the literature I read indicated 2 weeks is a fine washout period :(

      Any ideas on anything else that can silence this uninvited symphony of chaos in head that's a non benzo?
       
    25. OnceUponaTime
      Busy

      OnceUponaTime Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      New York
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/11
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Hi, Stu. I wish there was. Sigh. How's work? Why are they keeping you up so late!? :eek:
      PM sometime to catch up.
      God bless.
       
    26. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Just saw this in another thread from 2017 which supports your theory:

      “If anyone could have told me, and If you can do it, take 2 mg Klonopin/Clonazepam 15-day brainstorms stop, and it does not let tinnitus establish itself. 3 doctors have done this for 7 patients (just they prescribed it 30 days) and people did not develop permanent tinnitus.

      It is second class narcotic but it is worth thousand of € if used in first days, I wish I had it so that tinnitus does not remain when it is initiated and remains several days (2 weeks) it establishes itself in the brain...”
       
    27. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Do you think taking a .5mg Xanax (Alprazolam) once every few weeks would cause tolerance to develop or other issues? I am taking it a few times a month when things gets really tough, and it basically makes me 90% normal, however, I won’t continue if this will screw me up long term.
       
    28. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      I'm not a doctor, my best advice is to keep a little journal or calendar to track both your intake, and how effective it seems to be.

      If you notice you're using more, or needing higher doses for the same effect, those are negative indicators for PRN/"as needed" use. Negative indicators for daily use are basically just loss of effect, combined with the constant knowledge that any withdrawal is likely to be time-consuming and painful.
       
      • Like Like x 1

Share This Page

Loading...