Tinnitus and Computers

[Zeo]

Im putting a new thread here because i feel I'm closer to figuring out what either caused my tinnitus or is at the very least making it much, much worse, or even it being something more than just tinnitus….

I got tinnitus a few weeks ago, started quiet then got super loud. With the sound i would almost 100% of the time get hot inner ears, which was unbearable, even more than the noise.

Anyways I stayed with my girlfriend at her house for the Christmas period, the day before though the Tinnitus (at my own home) was very quiet for some reason, all day and night… now i think of it, i hadn't been using the computer (iMac ) for a few days.

I stayed there and it pretty much went away nearly 100%, for 3 days! (the first real time since i got it) came home to my room again, the room i suspect has something wrong with the walls (it has a strange damp issue, but much worse than just damp) started working again on the iMac and the tinnitus is back, almost immediately, full blast.

My mac is silent however it could be radiation, its documented here:

http://www.t4tinnitus.com/forums/?act=rd&tid=179

one here as well:

http://t4tinnitus.com/searchRNID/?tid=7123

It always relates to fan noise which my iMac does not have, it does mention radiation though…. could this be the cause? i need advice as this could be more than just tinnitus, anyone have experience of this or knows any information? I know pcs and macs give off very very low levels of radiation (harmless etc, i used to build pc's years ago as well), but it could also be an issue of shielding being faulty, or some frequency in the screen or something else relating to the computer itself.

Another oddity is this, when i leave my room (which I'm always in, editing etc as its my job!) the sound halves, or at least reduces to bareable levels. This also may just be my posture or a pinched nerve in my neck, however it seems unlikely.

 

[Markku]

This another thread might be of interest to the readers of this thread: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/emf-rf-and-tinnitus-research-and-discoveries.415/

 

[LeQuack]

I don't know really, I used to think that it was my phone, computer, wi-fi as well but then why don't other people get it, it's hard to apply logic to tinnitus and why it is the way it is.

 

[phonoodle]

I don't know really, I used to think that it was my phone, computer, wi-fi as well but then why don't other people get it, it's hard to apply logic to tinnitus and why it is the way it is.

am i getting this correct. T. is part of the human? Im new to this and its pissn me off

 

[Tenna]

Can't exclude radiation, however if that's the case, surrounding yourself with cellphones in everybody's pockets should assumingly have a similar effect yeah? Maybe you could test out the effect of those.
I've suspected my own computer fan tbh, it's a Very loud stationary one which I'm planning change.
On another note the posture is an ideal explanation. Really glad time with your gf has that effect on you!= )

 

[Zimichael]

Agree with Tenna...Also I am somewhat of a 'self -trained' expert in EMFs and Wireless stuff as fought a long battle with US Cellular over placement of a cell tower in our neighbourhood, which we got cut down (never happened in USA before as far as I know. Long story, but I became well versed in the field...and then the Smartmeters thing too). There is so much radiation everywhere it is unbelievable - well in the developed world anyhow. If you are "sensitive", you should in theory, get triggered in a zillion places.

However, what disturbs me is this sentence of yours: ..."the room i suspect has something wrong with the walls (it has a strange damp issue, but much worse than just damp)."

Ummmmmmmm....That waves all sorts of big caution flags to me about mold! I used to pooh-hoo mold as lived in England for many years and the whole place is a constantly damp mold heaven! However, my long undiagnosed illness for nearly seven years - wherein I received those meds that caused my increased tinnitus and hyperacusis! - was tangentially related to mold, so I now take it much more seriously.

I'm pretty scientific about all this stuff and not into the big scare tactics about the plethora of things that can be affecting us surreptitiously in today's world. But I have a number of friends who indeed seem to respond very sensitively to mold buildings/rooms and it is pretty darn quick! Usually, brain fog, sinus issues, headaches, etc...Any weak spots. So for you tinnitus could be such a "spot"!
Test it out properly, or you can drive yourself nuts getting freaked out about stuff incorrectly (when we are scared this happens easily and understandably). Take you Mac to your girlfriend's house. Try switching rooms, and certainly a 'dry' house with no chance of mold in the walls, etc.
To be sure, I have a private rule: "3 out of 3"...something has to affect me three times out of three for me to be sure enough to make a concrete decision about it...and even then, things can change later over time. But as a starting point, it's a good way to go.

Good luck, and report in if you figure anything out...Unfortunately a lot of pretty fringe things can cause tinnitus, not just the classic loud sound, etc.

Zimichael

 

[Zeo]

Tinnitus was so loud at home after using my computer, went to my girlfriends and it's now much quieter really lovely. WHY? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?


What the f*ck!? Do I need a new chair? A new pc?

She also massaged my neck and it went away a little, lots actually! Why?

 

[Smoogle]

My T was largely started from coil noise from a Nintendo DS. It was soft enough to sleep through, but sharp enough to very very slowly stimulate my hearing to the pain threshold. That, plus another loud / high-pitched sound (vacuum cleaner) triggered it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coil_noise

I'd strongly suggest making sure that your PC isn't giving off any kind of mechanical whine of any sort. A standard hard drive disk, power supply unit, or video card can sometimes give off insanely high frequency noise. Maybe if you can't hear anything yourself, have someone else come into the room with you and see if they can detect anything.

 

[Tenna]

Yeah so I'm currently sitting next to my super loud stationary mega fan as I write^^ Gotta have that changed

 

[LeQuack]

The servers at my work are loud and it could've been a contributing factor to my increased tinnitus. Thought about changing jobs, changing apartments, changing countries even, but I know wherever I go I'll bring my tinnitus with me.

I was thinking of moving somewhere warmer like the southern USA or Austrialia, somewhere where it's warm year round. Seems my tinnitus always gets far worse in the winter, my depression as well. In the warmer monthsI can amuse myself with the outdoor activities and it works wonders.
Also the economic situation in Europe is not that which gives you hope for the future, also there's nowhere to go that's warm year round.
On an unrelated note, anyone know of any Software Engineering jobs in the fore mentioned locations?

 

[Stina]

The servers at my work are loud and it could've been a contributing factor to my increased tinnitus. Thought about changing jobs, changing apartments, changing countries even, but I know wherever I go I'll bring my tinnitus with me.

I was thinking of moving somewhere warmer like the southern USA or Austrialia, somewhere where it's warm year round. Seems my tinnitus always gets far worse in the winter, my depression as well. In the warmer monthsI can amuse myself with the outdoor activities and it works wonders.
Also the economic situation in Europe is not that which gives you hope for the future, also there's nowhere to go that's warm year round.
On an unrelated note, anyone know of any Software Engineering jobs in the fore mentioned locations?

That is actually a very interesting idea. Many people suffer from the lack of sun in the winter and that causes depression - maybe the lack of sun is making your brain go nuts? As IT is the sphere of the future you would probably have no problems finding a job elsewhere. In Estonia IT specialists are highly needed but here yu would probably be even more depressed
Have you tried taking vitamin d?

 

[LeQuack]

That is actually a very interesting idea. Many people suffer from the lack of sun in the winter and that causes depression - maybe the lack of sun is making your brain go nuts? As IT is the sphere of the future you would probably have no problems finding a job elsewhere. In Estonia IT specialists are highly needed but here yu would probably be even more depressed
Have you tried taking vitamin d?

I've not tried Vitamin D, although I know you can get it by expore to sunlight and it's supposed to be helpful.
I don't know why I only seem to have these issues in the winter. Every spike I've had seems to originate in the winter time.

 

[Tenna]

Just a thought! I haven't quite read that much about neuromonics, but if neuromonics can remodulate one's tinnitus, could enough sound exposure to a nintendo ds, computer servers, fans and other computer sounds give you tinnitus?

 

[Stina]

I've not tried Vitamin D, although I know you can get it by expore to sunlight and it's supposed to be helpful.
I don't know why I only seem to have these issues in the winter. Every spike I've had seems to originate in the winter time.

Well maybe you can try vitamin D unless you have allergies I thin codliver oil contains it and in the pharmacy they sell drops (I think pills are not so good). Probably it wont do miracles but in a climate with little sun they are good anyway

 

[Stina]

Just a thought! I haven't quite read that much about neuromonics, but if neuromonics can remodulate one's tinnitus, could enough sound exposure to a nintendo ds, computer servers, fans and other computer sounds give you tinnitus?

By this point im thinking that almost everything causes T

 

[zippergirl]

Hi Zeo. I have almost exactly the same problem as you. After just a short time on the Mac, I get a thick cloudy heat sensation in my inner ears and they start ringing excessively. I know for a fact this is from excessive use and probably other things. I was a pc user for 10 years and switched to a mac for grad school. I used a 2011 macbook pro. The tinnitus began after about 6 months of use. I had other physical symptoms as well: chest tightness, pain in my head and major fatigue. The computer had a slight humming sound but it was very faint ( hard drive spinning). I was convinced for a long time it was the screen that was bothering me so I switched to an external monitor. Then I learned it was the hard drive so I installed a solid state drive and that made my chest tension improve significantly. But no change with the ringing. I bought a new mac air and while it's better it does the same thing, just takes a little longer. I have tried acupressure, myofascial release, wax removal, hypnosis, energy healing, mind power, meditation, essential oils, an earthing mat, and nothing has cured it. The only thing that improves the tinnitus is to be off electronics entirely for 2 days straight, and then its bearable. I am convinced it is radiation or a certain frequency because of a few reasons: the only other time I get the tinnitus and ear heat is from the cell phone, which is notorius for high radiation. Also, other computers don't stimulate the ringing. They do, however, cause me other problems because of fain noise, etc. I have a samsung tablet that im using now that doesn't cause any symptoms, but it doesn't do the work of a mac. I am super frustrated like you, I graduated with an MBA and debilitating tinnitus. My education isnt worth much without a computer. So now Im trying to figure out how to have a job that pays a living wage that doesn't require a computer. if I get somewhere with this ill repost.

 

[LeQuack]

Hi Zeo. I have almost exactly the same problem as you. After just a short time on the Mac, I get a thick cloudy heat sensation in my inner ears and they start ringing excessively. I know for a fact this is from excessive use and probably other things. I was a pc user for 10 years and switched to a mac for grad school. I used a 2011 macbook pro. The tinnitus began after about 6 months of use. I had other physical symptoms as well: chest tightness, pain in my head and major fatigue. The computer had a slight humming sound but it was very faint ( hard drive spinning). I was convinced for a long time it was the screen that was bothering me so I switched to an external monitor. Then I learned it was the hard drive so I installed a solid state drive and that made my chest tension improve significantly. But no change with the ringing. I bought a new mac air and while it's better it does the same thing, just takes a little longer. I have tried acupressure, myofascial release, wax removal, hypnosis, energy healing, mind power, meditation, essential oils, an earthing mat, and nothing has cured it. The only thing that improves the tinnitus is to be off electronics entirely for 2 days straight, and then its bearable. I am convinced it is radiation or a certain frequency because of a few reasons: the only other time I get the tinnitus and ear heat is from the cell phone, which is notorius for high radiation. Also, other computers don't stimulate the ringing. They do, however, cause me other problems because of fain noise, etc. I have a samsung tablet that im using now that doesn't cause any symptoms, but it doesn't do the work of a mac. I am super frustrated like you, I graduated with an MBA and debilitating tinnitus. My education isnt worth much without a computer. So now Im trying to figure out how to have a job that pays a living wage that doesn't require a computer. if I get somewhere with this ill repost.

My office is full of laptops, computers and servers and it's driving me insane, while others are oblivious to the noise. It's not loud, I've measured it @ about 40-45dB, but it's constant and annoying. So I'm definitely thinking of switching my job for a while now, my T seemed to get a lot worse while working here.

 

[Tenna]

Zippergirl have you tried out computers using ram mainly instead of harddrives? they dont need fans to cool off

 

[Haru]

When my folks said "Let's go to the summerhouse!" in February, I said no way but now...Maybe it's a good idea to leave my laptop at home and go no-tech at a quiet place!...Just that I'm scared I'll go crazy. My work is on my laptop, part of my hobbies are, I communicate to my bf through it, listen to music, get support as I'm doing now, even my lab results for T tests land on my screen. Basically I live on it. And then suddenly: *Only the sound of the waves and trees, plus family members* I don't know if I can pull it off...

 

[frohike]

I don't know really, I used to think that it was my phone, computer, wi-fi as well but then why don't other people get it, it's hard to apply logic to tinnitus and why it is the way it is.

From http://superuser.com/questions/718650/

In layman terms, ionizing radiation is radiation that can "break" the molecules that make up things. Non-ionizing radiation, on the other hand, just passes through objects or is converted to heat when it hits them.

Wi-Fi networks operate on the same frequency as a microwave oven: it uses non-ionizing radiation, when it hits the objects it is just converted into heat, it does not change the composition of the object itself. It is harmless, at most it will heat your body, but a very, very, veryyyy tiny amount that is not even measurable.

The frequency required to be ionising? At least 1,000,000 GHz. That's literally a 500,000 times higher frequency than what WiFi transmits on, 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz. Non-ionising radiation, which WiFi falls under, does little more than transfer heat.

From http://superuser.com/questions/509621/

Radiation consists of either electro-magnetic radiation (radio waves) or energetic atomic particles.

Energetic atomic particles only come from high-energy reactions -- a nuclear reactor, the Sun and stars, and occasionally energetic lightning strikes in the atmosphere. No common electrical equipment emits these (though some smoke detectors contain a tiny bit of "radioactive" material).

Electro-magnetic radiation (EMR) comes in a spectrum, with infrared radiation (what you feel standing near a fire) near the low end, and gamma rays on the high end. Between infrared and gamma rays are visible light, ultraviolet, and xrays.

Below infrared in the spectrum is radio waves -- AM, FM, TV, cellphones, microwaves. At the very low end of radio waves are Ultra-Low Frequency (ULF) waves. Ordinary electrical power is at 50-60 Hz (compared to 500,000 to 1,500,000 Hz for AM radio) and would be classified as ULF.

Radiation can be hazardous for basically one of two reasons:

1) "Ionizing" radiation has the ability to "knock apart" molecules in the body, potentially causing cancer or genetic mutations. "Ionizing" radiation is basically either radiation from "energetic particles" or radiation in the electro-magnetic spectrum beginning with ultraviolet (which is why sunlight can cause skin cancer).

2) Any intense EMR has the ability to damage living cells via heating (hence microwave ovens). Even though the heating may be very slight and not perceptible, damage to the delicate inner workings of the cell can occur. But while the effect of "ionizing" radiation is cumulative -- low intensity for a long time is as bad as high intensity for a short time -- this is not true for EMR. Below a certain intensity EMR simply does not cause cell damage.

(The "radiation" emitted by a UPS would be EMR, of the ULF variety -- the same radiation emitted by every other plugged-in electrical device in the building.)

There is some disagreement with regard to what the threshold should be for considering EMR dangerous, but there's been at least 50 years of research in the area and no one has come up with any real evidence that the levels we experience in a common home or office environment are anyway near the harmful threshold.

From the EPA

"Scientists work from the premise that no amount of radiation is safe. Even though most TV sets and computer screens have not been found to give off any measurable level of radiation"

From the American Cancer Society

"Electric currents create extremely low-frequency (ELF) electromagnetic fields, which are at the low-energy end of the electromagnetic spectrum."

"Most studies in adults have not found links between electromagnetic fields and cancer."

"Non-ionizing radiation is low-frequency radiation that does not have enough energy to directly damage DNA."

Takeaway point: all points to radiation from computers being harmless. If something is happening, it may be related to something else. If you were on a spy movie, you could wrap your computer in magnetic shielding foil yourself (around $40 per square meter).


From XKCD

 

[Haru]

From http://superuser.com/questions/718650/

In layman terms, ionizing radiation is radiation that can "break" the molecules that make up things. Non-ionizing radiation, on the other hand, just passes through objects or is converted to heat when it hits them.

Wi-Fi networks operate on the same frequency as a microwave oven: it uses non-ionizing radiation, when it hits the objects it is just converted into heat, it does not change the composition of the object itself. It is harmless, at most it will heat your body, but a very, very, veryyyy tiny amount that is not even measurable.

The frequency required to be ionising? At least 1,000,000 GHz. That's literally a 500,000 times higher frequency than what WiFi transmits on, 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz. Non-ionising radiation, which WiFi falls under, does little more than transfer heat.

From http://superuser.com/questions/509621/

Radiation consists of either electro-magnetic radiation (radio waves) or energetic atomic particles.

Energetic atomic particles only come from high-energy reactions -- a nuclear reactor, the Sun and stars, and occasionally energetic lightning strikes in the atmosphere. No common electrical equipment emits these (though some smoke detectors contain a tiny bit of "radioactive" material).

Electro-magnetic radiation (EMR) comes in a spectrum, with infrared radiation (what you feel standing near a fire) near the low end, and gamma rays on the high end. Between infrared and gamma rays are visible light, ultraviolet, and xrays.

Below infrared in the spectrum is radio waves -- AM, FM, TV, cellphones, microwaves. At the very low end of radio waves are Ultra-Low Frequency (ULF) waves. Ordinary electrical power is at 50-60 Hz (compared to 500,000 to 1,500,000 Hz for AM radio) and would be classified as ULF.

Radiation can be hazardous for basically one of two reasons:

1) "Ionizing" radiation has the ability to "knock apart" molecules in the body, potentially causing cancer or genetic mutations. "Ionizing" radiation is basically either radiation from "energetic particles" or radiation in the electro-magnetic spectrum beginning with ultraviolet (which is why sunlight can cause skin cancer).

2) Any intense EMR has the ability to damage living cells via heating (hence microwave ovens). Even though the heating may be very slight and not perceptible, damage to the delicate inner workings of the cell can occur. But while the effect of "ionizing" radiation is cumulative -- low intensity for a long time is as bad as high intensity for a short time -- this is not true for EMR. Below a certain intensity EMR simply does not cause cell damage.

(The "radiation" emitted by a UPS would be EMR, of the ULF variety -- the same radiation emitted by every other plugged-in electrical device in the building.)

There is some disagreement with regard to what the threshold should be for considering EMR dangerous, but there's been at least 50 years of research in the area and no one has come up with any real evidence that the levels we experience in a common home or office environment are anyway near the harmful threshold.

From the EPA

"Scientists work from the premise that no amount of radiation is safe. Even though most TV sets and computer screens have not been found to give off any measurable level of radiation"

From the American Cancer Society

"Electric currents create extremely low-frequency (ELF) electromagnetic fields, which are at the low-energy end of the electromagnetic spectrum."

"Most studies in adults have not found links between electromagnetic fields and cancer."

"Non-ionizing radiation is low-frequency radiation that does not have enough energy to directly damage DNA."

Takeaway point: all points to radiation from computers being harmless. If something is happening, it may be related to something else. If you were on a spy movie, you could wrap your computer in magnetic shielding foil yourself (around $40 per square meter).


From XKCD

But I remember reading an established professor from Europe saying people were coming to him with rashes on their face and he came to the conclusion that the rashes were from spending too much time in front of old-type computer screens. These people were employees from call centres etc. who had to spend a lot of time sitting in front of a computer.

Another professor who does research on EMR made a study where she collected blood samples from herself before spending time with a computer and after spending time with a computer. In the second sample, the blood cells were sticking to eachother, which is terrible for health.

These are small studies but were interesting. Also, some European countries are banning wi-fi in schools because of health reasons.

That's what I know

 

[daedalus]

It's the parents pressuring the governments to ban wi-fi and not only in schools. The scientists and engineers stdying the influence of wi-fi recall that with old radios we were submitted to a way higher dosage of elecrtomagnetic waves. And since a long time

Screens can tire the eyes. The only way i can think a computer could damage someone's ears would be trough the noise of a fan or the high frequency vibration of some capacitor or other electric component. Which must happen very very rarely.

Or like the OP said a posture problem. I find this plausible but i am not a physician.

EDIT: HARU, how lucky you have a family summerhouse in Turkey ! I would take some sweet time with my loved one there. Maybe fetching a device to play some masking sounds if necessary. And talk with the loved ones helps to distract from the t.

I wish you a nice and calm little holiday with your loved ones

 

[Erlend]

I have to plug out my (new, modern) TV in my room. Turns out the TV was responsible for 30% of my T sound!

 

[Tenna]

Erlend, as in the tv gives of noise hisses or your t actually decreases? Honestly it would surprise if all these things didnt affect us, were affected by hormones which we can see and measure, but e-numbers, radiation, microscopic pieces of plastic etc wouldnt affect us? lol

 

[Haru]

It's the parents pressuring the governments to ban wi-fi and not only in schools. The scientists and engineers stdying the influence of wi-fi recall that with old radios we were submitted to a way higher dosage of elecrtomagnetic waves. And since a long time

Screens can tire the eyes. The only way i can think a computer could damage someone's ears would be trough the noise of a fan or the high frequency vibration of some capacitor or other electric component. Which must happen very very rarely.

Or like the OP said a posture problem. I find this plausible but i am not a physician.

EDIT: HARU, how lucky you have a family summerhouse in Turkey ! I would take some sweet time with my loved one there. Maybe fetching a device to play some masking sounds if necessary. And talk with the loved ones helps to distract from the t.

I wish you a nice and calm little holiday with your loved ones

Actually we didn't go because I was prescribed an MRA and a doppler. But the nature is amazing there There are mountains, olive trees and great beaches. One of my fave places on earth.

I agree that posture can be a culprid btw. Everyone spends hours and hours sitting in the same position.

 

[Erlend]

Erlend, as in the tv gives of noise hisses or your t actually decreases? Honestly it would surprise if all these things didnt affect us, were affected by hormones which we can see and measure, but e-numbers, radiation, microscopic pieces of plastic etc wouldnt affect us? lol

It seems like the T decreases, because I tought the TV sound was part of my T

 

[ajay]

Im putting a new thread here because i feel I'm closer to figuring out what either caused my tinnitus or is at the very least making it much, much worse, or even it being something more than just tinnitus….

I got tinnitus a few weeks ago, started quiet then got super loud. With the sound i would almost 100% of the time get hot inner ears, which was unbearable, even more than the noise.

Anyways I stayed with my girlfriend at her house for the Christmas period, the day before though the Tinnitus (at my own home) was very quiet for some reason, all day and night… now i think of it, i hadn't been using the computer (iMac ) for a few days.

I stayed there and it pretty much went away nearly 100%, for 3 days! (the first real time since i got it) came home to my room again, the room i suspect has something wrong with the walls (it has a strange damp issue, but much worse than just damp) started working again on the iMac and the tinnitus is back, almost immediately, full blast.

My mac is silent however it could be radiation, its documented here:

http://www.t4tinnitus.com/forums/?act=rd&tid=179

one here as well:

http://t4tinnitus.com/searchRNID/?tid=7123

It always relates to fan noise which my iMac does not have, it does mention radiation though…. could this be the cause? i need advice as this could be more than just tinnitus, anyone have experience of this or knows any information? I know pcs and macs give off very very low levels of radiation (harmless etc, i used to build pc's years ago as well), but it could also be an issue of shielding being faulty, or some frequency in the screen or something else relating to the computer itself.

Another oddity is this, when i leave my room (which I'm always in, editing etc as its my job!) the sound halves, or at least reduces to bareable levels. This also may just be my posture or a pinched nerve in my neck, however it seems unlikely.

May be this is due to deficiency of:
1. Vit B12
2. Vit D
3. Serum Iron
Carry our appropriate tests to evaluate the above. in my case all these parameters were low, particularly Iron was low, i started taking iron suppliments advised by the doctor, i am feeling much better now. if it works for u please share with as many sufferers as possible and to me also.
also check if u have any allergy, and treat it.

Best Wishes. Ajay

 

[NeverLoseHope]

I had a day of almost total silence yesterday but, I did have one T spike, that is a worry as I own a Computer shop. As a family we do not use our computers on Christmas day. But I had to turn my sons very powerful gaming one on to get some passwords of it for his new smartphone, and it spiked my right away, it did not last long thankfully. So are our computers not helping our T? Interesting, and a bit of a worry for me, oh well I want to retire soon anyway

 

[Dutchy]

Very old topic i know but turning off my TV decreased my T a bit,can these signals really be this harming
for the auditory part of our brain?.

 

[ida]

I believe my disability of tinnitus was triggered during 3 months' exposure to the frequency whistle, generated by five industrial pieces of electrical equipment in an enclosed 5ft by 9ft bakery room while working at a Co-operative store following a new re-fit in April 2015.

I had been a loyal employee working full-time for 5 years at the Co-op, but was given no option to amend my work duties even though my doctor asked me to be removed from the environment for 13 weeks, therefore I resigned.

Eleven months on, (aged thirties), I am still left with tinnitus 24/7.