Tinnitus Retraining Therapy

[Michael Leigh]

Spot on Michael.

As you know - I had a lifelong professional career in jazz - I loved my life - I lived to create music.
But if the chips represent the rest of one's life - then one has to reluctantly walk away, I feel.

I occasionally replay my videos, LPs, CDs, to remind myself of my achievements.

Thank you for your comments @Jazzer

Alas, I cannot play an instrument but if I could the cello would be my choice. I really appreciate listening to some of the wonderful classical and Jazz recordings that I have on CD, Vinyl and via computer hard-disc streamed through my Digital to Analogue Network player and output to a Valve amplifier and speakers. As you may know, I am an Audiophile, and I strive to hear the highest quality of music reproduced through my audio system. Thank goodness tinnitus hasn't stopped me from enjoying that.

I am sorry to know that you are unable to play your trombone, but pleased you are still able to enjoy listening to some of the wonderful music that you created. I believe music is medicine to the soul. If you get some comfort replying your videos, LPs and CDs, long may this continue.

Take care
Michael

 

[bobvann]

Spot on Michael.

As you know - I had a lifelong professional career in jazz - I loved my life - I lived to create music.
But if the chips represent the rest of one's life - then one has to reluctantly walk away, I feel.

I occasionally replay my videos, LPs, CDs, to remind myself of my achievements.

And I am learning guitar. It's not all bad. I have a small 20 Watt line 6 amp and a Gibson Les Paul.

 

[Michael Leigh]

There is also e-drums with volume control...Through an amp, not headphones...

There is a warning in my device manual about prolonged use or volume that can worsen tinnitus.

I know how much you want to play your drums as I am a passionate music listener. It doesn't matter what the manufactures say or anyone else for that matter including me. All I'm saying, please be careful: Noise induced tinnitus is not something to take lightly. It can increase to levels you wouldn't believe is possible, I know because I have been there.

All the best
Michael

 

[bobvann]

I know how much you want to play your drums as I am a passionate music listener. It doesn't matter what the manufactures say or anyone else for that matter including me. All I'm saying, please be careful: Noise induced tinnitus is not something to take lightly. It can increase to levels you wouldn't believe is possible, I know because I have been there.

All the best
Michael

Don't forget when I say electronic drums amplified I am not meaning through thousands of watts. They can sound great through powered studio monitors that are not louder than your HIFI system or my home theater. I work out 4 to 5 days a week. I don't use earplugs at the gym and it can be a fairly loud environment. Today I actually got some relief playing soothing music and nature sounds through the Bluetooth feature of the device. It's like you mentioned, the solid programmed colored sounds are irritating for now. I have a decent audio system as well. I have a Sony 65" OLED Bravia and Onkyo 7.1 Dolby Atmos with all Klipsch speakers and 12" powered sub.

I know what you mean. I attempted to carry on playing regular drums for 8 to 9 months and had to stop. It gave me a reaction but never did raise my tinnitus baseline. I know you mentioned having an acoustic event that raised yours. PS. It gets crazy loud, it's more the intrusiveness that is the problem though.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Don't forget when I say electronic drums amplified I am not meaning through thousands of watts. They can sound great through powered studio monitors that are not louder than your HIFI system or my home theater. I work out 4 to 5 days a week. I don't use earplugs at the gym and it can be a fairly loud environment. Today I actually got some relief playing soothing music and nature sounds through the Bluetooth feature of the device. It's like you mentioned, the solid programmed colored sounds are irritating for now. I have a decent audio system as well. I have a Sony 65" OLED Bravia and Onkyo 7.1 Dolby Atmos with all Klipsch speakers and 12" powered sub.

I know what you mean. I attempted to carry on playing regular drums for 8 to 9 months and had to stop. It gave me a reaction but never did raise my tinnitus baseline. I know you mentioned having an acoustic event that raised yours. PS. It gets crazy loud, it's more the intrusiveness that is the problem though.

@bobvann

Just take things easy and be careful with the working out too. Whilst it's good to exercise be mindful of the noise a gym environment can create.

I like the specifications of your home Theatre system which has an impressive 65inch TV screen. I am sure your system sounds spectacular and will satisfy most people that want to listen to music and enjoy watching movies in surround sound.

However, please forgive me for what I am about say as I do not mean to be disparaging or belittle your audio setup in anyway. It is just that I have been passionate about music and the way it is reproduced through HI-FI since the age of 16. Now at the tender young age of 60 I haven't changed thankfully. I am an ardent Audiophile a complete purist if you like and have gone to painstaking lengths, to extract the maximum sound quality from the two audio systems.

Therefore, a television no matter how small has no place in my main listening room much less a large 65inch TV screen. The reason being its surface will reflect sound from my speakers and play havoc with room acoustics and thus, I couldn't enjoy listening to my music. I use specialist Mains cables and conditioners that Power my Amplifier, CD player, Turntable with clean electricity. Most Audiophiles know it is an absolute must to use specialist mains cables and conditioners as the electricity can make or break an Audio systems performance. That is just the beginning. If I were to continue this post will probably reach 3000 words or more and I have no wish make you fall asleep so I'll end things here.

All the best
Michael

 

[bobvann]

@bobvann

Just take things easy and be careful with the working out too. Whilst it's good to exercise be mindful of the noise a gym environment can create.

I like the specifications of your home Theatre system which has an impressive 65inch TV screen. I am sure your system sounds spectacular and will satisfy most people that want to listen to music and enjoy watching movies in surround sound.

However, please forgive me for what I am about say as I do not mean to be disparaging or belittle your audio setup in anyway. It is just that I have been passionate about music and the way it is reproduced through HI-FI since the age of 16. Now at the tender young age of 60 I haven't changed thankfully. I am an ardent Audiophile a complete purist if you like and have gone to painstaking lengths, to extract the maximum sound quality from the two audio systems that I have.

Therefore, a television no matter how small has no place in my main listening room much less a large 65inch TV screen. The reason being its surface will reflect sound from my speakers and play havoc with room acoustics and thus, I couldn't enjoy listening to my music. I use specialist Mains cables and conditioners that Power my Amplifier, CD player, Turntable with clean electricity. Most Audiophiles know it is an absolute must to use specialist mains cables and conditioners as the electricity can make or break an Audio systems performance. That is just the beginning. If I were to continue this post will probably reach 3000 words or more and I have no wish make you fall asleep so I'll end things here.

All the best
Michael

For sure mine is more geared for entertainment. No offense taken. I did not spend the upper thousands on the sound system, I did $5K for the TV though. I also built a $5K PC for my other much less noise invasive hobby of Rendering. I am a musician so I understand high fidelity. It is not needed for mostly movies and TV shows. The advice is being taken in the right context and appreciated. I am tuning 58 in June. I just play to tracks no more band stuff In any case no drums are being played at this time. I was ready to pack it in when this hit..

 

[El BUZZ]

@bobvann

Just take things easy and be careful with the working out too. Whilst it's good to exercise be mindful of the noise a gym environment can create.

I like the specifications of your home Theatre system which has an impressive 65inch TV screen. I am sure your system sounds spectacular and will satisfy most people that want to listen to music and enjoy watching movies in surround sound.

However, please forgive me for what I am about say as I do not mean to be disparaging or belittle your audio setup in anyway. It is just that I have been passionate about music and the way it is reproduced through HI-FI since the age of 16. Now at the tender young age of 60 I haven't changed thankfully. I am an ardent Audiophile a complete purist if you like and have gone to painstaking lengths, to extract the maximum sound quality from the two audio systems.

Therefore, a television no matter how small has no place in my main listening room much less a large 65inch TV screen. The reason being its surface will reflect sound from my speakers and play havoc with room acoustics and thus, I couldn't enjoy listening to my music. I use specialist Mains cables and conditioners that Power my Amplifier, CD player, Turntable with clean electricity. Most Audiophiles know it is an absolute must to use specialist mains cables and conditioners as the electricity can make or break an Audio systems performance. That is just the beginning. If I were to continue this post will probably reach 3000 words or more and I have no wish make you fall asleep so I'll end things here.

All the best
Michael

Can you hear your tinnitus over your sound system?

 

[bobvann]

After 1 full day of using sound therapy hearing aids / programmed sounds / soft nature music via Bluetooth, I woke up to silence! My tinnitus is down to something like .02. Not sure how long for but it's a start.

So score 1 for TRT sound therapy!

 

[Michael Leigh]

Can you hear your tinnitus over your sound system?

My tinnitus is variable: Silent, mild, moderate, severe and very severe. I am able to enjoy listening to music through my HI-FI when the tinnitus is, Silent to moderate. When the tinnitus is moderate to severe listening is not as pleasurable but doable. From severe to very severe the tinnitus is too intrusive.

Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

After 1 full day of using sound therapy hearing aids / programmed sounds / soft nature music via Bluetooth, I woke up to silence! My tinnitus is down to something like .02. Not sure how long for but it's a start.

So score 1 for TRT sound therapy!

It seems you haven't listened to a word I have told you. You are not helping yourself by constantly talking about your tinnitus and treatment. This is precisely what I have told you what this will create. Putting pressure on yourself and expectations. When things don't go according to your expectations then you are going to feel down and say, the treatment doesn't work TRT is a scam.

I don't know why I bother sometimes.

Michael

 

[bobvann]

It seems you haven't listened to a word I have told you. You are not helping yourself by constantly talking about your tinnitus and treatment. This is precisely what I have told you what this will create. Putting pressure on yourself and expectations. When things don't go according to your expectations then you are going to feel down and say, the treatment doesn't work TRT is a scam.

I don't know why I bother sometimes.

Michael

Huh? You crapping on me for posting something positive? WTF man. I would not say it's a scam I would say perhaps I need to try something else.

 

[ajc]

Huh? You crapping on me for posting something positive? WTF man.

Don't listen to a word Michael Leigh has to say. If you post while you're in treatment, he thinks you're doing it wrong and does not approve of it.

He's judgmental and narrow-minded.

GREAT YOU ARE HAVING SUCCESS BOBVANN!!!!

 

[Michael Leigh]

Huh? You crapping on me for posting something positive? WTF man. I would not say it's a scam i would say perhaps I need to try something else.

TRT is a long term treatment that can take up to 2 years to complete. I am trying to help you because you asked for my Advice. However, it seems you have your own agenda and can't keep away from the forum or a least can't stop talking about your tinnitus and treatment. This is the wrong approach.

All the best to you.
Michael

 

[bobvann]

Don't listen to a word Michael Leigh has to say. If you post while you're in treatment, he thinks you're doing it wrong and does not approve of it.

He's judgmental and narrow-minded.

GREAT YOU ARE HAVING SUCCESS BOBVANN!!!!

Thanks I am puzzled by this too. I think it is important to perhaps ENCOURAGE OTHERS! I think it has to do with what @Quiet please states in hearing aids that she found an audiologist and device that was helping her. Which is what got me to decide to revisit sound therapy.

 

[bobvann]

TRT is a long term treatment that can take up to 2 years to complete. I am trying to help you because you asked for my Advice. However, it seems you have your own agenda and can't keep away from the forum or a least can't stop talking about your tinnitus and treatment. This is the wrong approach.

All the best to you.
Michael

That is your opinion. Fair enough. Then why are you always posting? To help others. Maybe I am trying to also encourage others. Ever think of that?

 

[bobvann]

I can also say that according to habituation purists, the fact that your tinnitus still bothers you, you are not truly habituated because you never got past the fear and distorted thinking, which are the principles behind CBT.

 

[Michael Leigh]

That is your opinion. Fair enough. Then why are you always posting? To help others. Maybe I am trying to also encourage others. Ever think of that?

I have many years experience with tinnitus and I have habituated. Check all my posts in this forum which amount to over 6000. You will see that I haven't once asked for any help for my tinnitus. I am here to help people with this condition as I was once helped many years ago in a forum similar to this.

You have it your way but if things don't go according to your expectations don't go blaming TRT and saying it is a scam, when you haven't done your part. I have given you advice and you have chosen not to follow it.

All the best to you and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Phat Tuna]

After 1 full day of using sound therapy hearing aids / programmed sounds / soft nature music via Bluetooth, I woke up to silence! My tinnitus is down to something like .02. Not sure how long for but it's a start.

So score 1 for TRT sound therapy!

Holy crap. That's amazing. Awesome news!

 

[Phat Tuna]

That is your opinion. Fair enough. Then why are you always posting? To help others. Maybe I am trying to also encourage others. Ever think of that?

This did indeed help me. As I am struggling with hyperacusis and thinking about doing TRT. One question, is your audiologist trained in TRT? Or did she just give you the generators and pretty much let you tweak your treatment on your own? Or is she sort of winging it herself doing her own spin off version of TRT?

I live in a pretty big city with many audiologists. But none of them do actual TRT as done by Jastreboff.

 

[bobvann]

This did indeed help me. As I am struggling with hyperacusis and thinking about doing TRT. One question, is your audiologist trained in TRT? Or did she just give you the generators and pretty much let you tweak your treatment on your own? Or is she sort of winging it herself doing her own spin off version of TRT?

I live in a pretty big city with many audiologists. But none of them do actual TRT as done by Jastreboff.

I never said I was habituated yet. It is just a step. As far as the audiologist goes she was a young lady. She just set up some sounds but I am am using different therapies. Including Bluetooth like @Quiet please. My audiologist didn't know who Jastreboff was. She is 31. So probably a spin. She set up notched white noise according to my 2 kHz and 3 kHz mid range drops.

 

[bobvann]

Dr. Nagler states that TRT may not be for everyone & that WNGs should not be an ordeal to use and nothing wrong with stopping them if they are detrimental.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/discomfort-and-annoyance-with-trt-pink-noise-generators.38946/

 

[Michael Leigh]

Dr. Nagler states that TRT may not be for everyone & that WNGs should not be an ordeal to use and nothing wrong with stopping them if they are detrimental.

There is some truth in what Dr. Nagler has said @bobvann.

However, TRT or any tinnitus treatment has to be given a chance to work. It is a long term treatment and so is CBT. I do not think you have given WNG a fair chance and I have explained my reasons. Namely, your instance on visiting tinnitus forums and talking about the treatment which isn't a good idea. In addition to this, you have convinced yourself WNG won't work which is a negative mindset, so it's not surprising you have had zero improvement - coupled with the fact I believe you expect noticeable improvements within a few weeks which I think is unreasonable.

One person that I used to be in contact with, was about to start treatment for his hyperacusis by wearing one white noise generator. His Audiologist specialises in treating hyperacusis and said only one WNG is required. She said all her patients have been cured of hyperacusis and the only people that don't improve are the ones that don't stick to her treatment programme. She said treatment takes approximately 18 months. I am just telling you what I was told.

My hyperacusis was completely cured in 2 years wearing WNGs and the tinnitus reduced to a very low level. Although I had a second noise trauma some years later, the hyperacusis did not return and has remained this way.

Michael

 

[bobvann]

There is some truth in what Dr. Nagler has said @bobvann.

In addition to this, you have convinced yourself WNG won't work which is a negative mindset, so it's not surprising you have had zero improvement - coupled with the fact I believe you expect noticeable improvements within a few weeks which I think is unreasonable.

Michael

I think it's great it has helped you.

Dr. Nagler states that one gets a decent idea in about 30 days if it will help. That's what I gave it... & as far as my mindset it would be silly passing on something that would help...

To quote you.

"If one insists on playing musical instruments or going clubbing, using headphones. If you make your baseline worse no one will be able to help you."

Same with persisting using WNG's if they create an adverse reaction...

 

[Michael Leigh]

Dr. Nagler states that one gets a decent idea in about 30 days if it will help. That's what I gave it... & as far as my mindset it would be silly passing on something that would help...

With respect to Dr. Nagler, he is an ENT doctor and I don't believe he actually treats tinnitus or hyperacusis. My understanding, as told to me by my ENT consultant, who is an Audiovestibular physician, ENT doctors do not treat tinnitus, they treat underlying medical conditions within the Auditory system that is causing the tinnitus. At least this is the current practice in the UK.

When the tinnitus is noise induced the patient often has hyperacusis too. In the UK the patient is referred to Audiology, to see either a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist that specialises in tinnitus and hyperacusis, treatment and management. Depending on which NHS hospital one attends for treatment this can be: TRT, CBT, Sound Therapy with WNG, Counselling, Mindfulness, Relaxation therapy. Medication prescribed by an ENT doctor.

I do not agree with what Dr. Nagler has said. I have had TRT twice, the full treatment and not a scaled version of it. Each treatment lasted 2 years. I think 30 days is too soon to be expecting improvement.

Michael

 

[Michael Leigh]

"If one insists on playing musical instruments or going clubbing, using headphones. If you make your baseline worse no one will be able to help you."

This is true and I stand by what I have said. If memory serves me correctly, you have been told by people at other forums, habituation means one should be able to carry on doing everything as they did before. I disagree with this. Tinnitus and hyperacusis often improves with treatment. However, if one goes subjecting themselves to overly loud sounds and using headphones, it is likely their tinnitus will become worse.

 

[lapidus]

With respect to Dr. Nagler, he is an ENT doctor and I don't believe he actually treats tinnitus or hyperacusis.

No, he's not an ENT. He's a former cancer surgeon who became a TRT clinician after he got tinnitus himself so he does in fact treat tinnitus and hyperacusis. Although I would personally be cautious to use the word "treat" here.

 

[bobvann]

Not an improvement per say. If one can tolerate them and they should not be an ordeal to put up with. Dr. Nagler is a TRT professional.

 

[Michael Leigh]

No, he's not an ENT. He's a former cancer surgeon who became a TRT clinician after he got tinnitus himself so he does in fact treat tinnitus and hyperacusis. Although I would personally be cautious to use the word "treat" here.

Thank you for the information.

 

[bobvann]

@Michael Leigh Dr. Nagler is also a musical string player, did TRT directly with Jastreboff. Again all in the spirit of discussion and POVs.

 

[Bobby Sinatra]

This: