Toilet Lid Noise and Corticosteroids?

It’s part of the problem AZeurotuner. A lot of people who post here are already phonophobic.

 

Toilet lid problem-easy to sort out by replacing it with a plastic one.
Regarding steroids from someone whom has taken many and for weeks and months at a time and short course over the years,unless the sound was a loud blast causing hearing loss I would not take them and just try relax and stay calm as anxiety would be more of a problem for spikes.
Love glynis

 

I'm definitely phonophobic. No question about it. I do believe that this attitude has served to keep me more alert to real or potential dangers. But it comes at a high cost, as you know. Things have improved with the awareness that stress and anxiety can have a profound impact on tinnitus. There lies a middle ground between being fearful of sounds and being oblivious to dangers.

 

I personally think this is the crux of a lot of people’s problems on here. I think it’s this pattern of behaviour that creates the anxiety stranglehold that we see so much of. And once you go down this path it’s so hard to break out of it. I’ll go out on a limb here and say an average day for most people doesn’t entail sounds that are dangerous enough to be actively monitored. The real dangers are usually quite obvious and can be selectively avoided or appropriately protected against at the point they’re encountered.

I realise some see a benefit to actively monitoring but I think it’s takes one dangerously close to becoming a social hermit. Some become scared to leave their house in some cases.

If it works for some then who I am to argue. However, this can surely only be deemed successful if it doesn’t detrimentally impact on your health and mental wellbeing.

 

Once you go down this path, your condition will improve, and then it will be easy to stop worrying as much. In fact, for many people the problem is that once they get better, they revert to behaving like they used to before they got T. It is worse to be one of those people (who have a good chance of getting thrust back into the nightmare), than a person who takes extra care in some situations where they might have been ok had they not taken the extra care.

The same can be said about stopping worrying about the noises, and starting to act recklessly.

 

Above I meant to write "will hopefully improve."

 

Very true. We see this happen over and over on this forum. It's easy to forget and just pretend everything is back to normal.

 

I mostly agree with your post and pred shouldn't be taken unless necessary. It is actually on the list of ototoxic medications and has many undesirable side effects. People need to understand that unless you experience instantaneous muffled hearing, you almost certainly do not need it. Ear fullness is normal and it's part of your ears protective capabilities. The tensor tympani and stapedius muscles can tense up to prevent further damage (causing ear fullness), albeit are usually too slow for sudden impulse sounds.

I do have to pull you up on the above point. It is not always possible to avoid unexpected loud noise and/or know of potentially damaging situations. A lot of it comes down to luck.

Let me give you some examples - a car alarm (linked to car horn) going off in front of you and your child in an underground car park, ENT performing microsuction without first advising of using ear wax softening drops, tympanogram and LDL testing by a qualified audiologist on someone presenting with TTTS/ASD symptoms, a motorcyle or car back firing in front of you as you cross the road, motorbikes that have modified mufflers roaring past you on the street or even when driving, car airbag deployment, security guards blasting whistles near you, illegal professional size fireworks being set off by neighbours at Chinese New Year, unbelievably loud work security alarm being triggered, toddlers screaming, crazy cleaners crashing plates and cutlery in already noisy shopping centre foodcourts, MRIs with possibly insufficient or incorrectly fitted ear protection, large buses honking or using air brakes in your vicinity... I could go on. All except for the air bag deployment have happened to me. The work alarm was several years before getting T too.

Even if they do not cause permanent hearing damage, they can exacerbate existing tinnitus and hyperacusis and lead to other things such as TTTS and ASD. And yes, quickly closing your ears with your fingers is often possible (unless driving of course), but it is often too late and the startle reflex already been triggered.

I still hardly ever use ear protection, although I have gone through phases where I have, but never for long periods or to an extreme level.

 

There's many articles on the hazards of noise at 85db or higher. In Europe a study was done where noise has killed 3% with heart disease. Higher rates of noise can tense muscles in neck and shoulders - not good for physical T.

Some interesting facts in this article.
http://www.barkingdogs.net/epanoise1978.shtml

 

Can't disagree with that. But I meant, here the odds are there is always someone that will give you good advice.

 

I understand what you’re saying, but in reality, the chances of randomly having your ears physically damaged beyond repair - and without having any control over the situation - is extremely rare. I’d say so rare in fact that it’s not worth even thinking about. If something’s going to happen it’s going to happen. Same can be said of anything in life; tomorrow I could get hit by a bus. I can’t spend my life avoiding buses, however, to the point that it gives me a life changing phobia.

The change in ones behaviour and the effect this can have on certain people’s mental wellbeing, and emotional health, far outweighs the chance of encountering a random, legitimately, damaging noise. In my opinion. For most people the noises you listed shouldn’t be a problem. If an alarm goes off for example, cover your ears and leave the building. The initial blast won’t damage your ears. The occasional pop and bang that we all encounter, again, won’t cause immediate damage (you’d have to be extremely unlucky). However, if your mindset is phobic then these sounds will cause damage because everytime something happens you will envoke a limbic response. This will trigger spikes, panic attacks, sickness, cortisol overload (which if prolonged can shrink your brain and damage your organs), depression, anxiety, etc...

I’m aware the elephant in the room is that I had an MRI which did make things worse for me, but I went into the machine aware of what might happen, and I took that risk for the shake of my shoulders. That’s not what I’d consider an everyday encounter though. It would be like me deciding to go to a gig again with no ear protection and stand near the speakers. It ain’t gonna happen. The rest of life for me at least will continue without me torturing myself every time I hear something loud. I’ve been there and done that and it made me worse. A lot worse.

 

I think there is a happy medium between you and bill bauer as I agree with both of you, but also think that you are both on either end on the spectrum of how to live with tinnitus. I do think its important to keep living life to the fullest but I also think that you have to be still quite cautious, now im not saying you encourage people to engage in activities that make tinnitus worse but I do think you are too relaxed as was I, hence why we both got tinnitus increases from medical procedures. Idk just my opinion on this.

 

I do agree with you about phonophobia, misophonia and the negative effects of being hypervigilant. It can actually happen without one being aware of it and build up progressively. This is especially true when you feel spasms in your middle ears in response to sound, as it's uncomfortable and makes you want to avoid it happening. Suppressing the startle response and negative thoughts about sudden sounds takes effort, but can be done.

But we'll have to agree to disagree about how easy it is to avoid sudden excessively loud sounds and just how dangerous they are. You are right, it does come down to luck.

Anyway damage is cumulative and hearing loss is natural and progressive with age, so anything attributable to extreme noise is not doing us any favours. Hair cell damage is progressive but it is thought by some experts that they can actually repair themselves if not damaged too badly and only if they aren't subjected to further insults. But it takes a long time. And yes, I do understand noise damage comes down to duration of exposure and SPL.

A number of the sounds I listed cannot be dismissed so easily, especially if you have conditions like T et al. They occur so quickly, you have zero chance of covering your ears. Have you heard a 1000cc+ motorcycle backfire within close proximity? It's like a blast. Microsuction can reach 140db+ if clarinetting of cerumen occurs. Avoiding loud places like nightclubs, concerts and so forth is easy.

With the alarm, it was pre T days so my quick reaction response to cover my ears wasn't there and whilst I did cover them after some seconds, I had to remove my hands to enter a code. It's easy to say just cover your ears. I also would not under estimate how loud they can be. Who knows, maybe it set me up for T.

Also I developed extreme vertigo the day after an MRI, yet felt perfectly fine for the remainder of the day afterwards. I still think perhaps it's what triggered my hyperacusis and early stages of TTTS. I still get vertigo from time to time along with dizziness and balance issues.

Possibly it comes down to where you live. Having been to the UK, I can say it's not a noisy place in general. Even central London is not that loud at all, except maybe for the tube. There are noise laws in place. There aren't that many motorcyles/scooters and they are unlikely to have inexplicably loud custom mufflers. I'm certain construction sites are not still operating up until midnight, as is the one just up the road from where I live.

 

Again, I totally understand where people are coming from when they think this way. I just don’t see a realistic solution, and I don’t think these situations are generally worth worrying about. Since I’ve been a member on this forum I’ve lost count of the messages and threads I’ve seen where people are locking themselves away in their houses because they don’t want to risk exposing themselves to loud noises. If they do venture out, some of these people are double protecting! You have to watch out because these behavioural patterns often creep up on you and it’s a slippery slope. Most don’t wake up one day feeling like this, this behaviour is learnt, and I believe it’s conpletely toxic for your mind. I’d argue it’s a form of OCD once it fully takes hold.

Incidentally I have been exposed to many of the dangers: many ambulance sirens, alarms, backfiring cars, low flying planes etc... I’ve even been exposed to gun shots which were totally unexpected. I know sounds carry risk, but the situation dictates the danger more than anything else. I strongly believe that most situations either aren’t worth worrying about or can be avoided. Anyone can be unlucky and be exposed to a legitimately damaging impulse noise, whether one has T or not. The difference is that non T people don’t live their lives in fear like T people do. For T people it’s like opening Pandora’s box; once it’s opened and the secrets are revealed it’s incredibly difficult to close the lid on it again.

 

For some it does make a difference as to where one lives. I live close to a 10 lane non slip texture cement highway that is built off the ground in my area. Five lanes in each direction. Intersecting is a 6 lane boulevard and other busy streets. Sirens all day and night. Police helicopters flying low and circling. Firecrackers going off at one o'clock in the morning in any month. Loud motorcycles all over the place.

 

I agree Liam, but I wouldn’t consider myself extreme personally. I don’t advocate exposing oneself to loud environments without the use of earplugs, and I always recommend avoiding places or environments that are too loud.

If you’re out and and about and pass somewhere noisy there is nothing wrong with temporarily plugging your ears if it’s warranted. The problem I see is that this rarely happens. What usually happens is people become fearful of everything and it affects their quality of life. You find people that have become so absorbed into the tinnitus bubble that they no longer have a life. The threat of noise and worrying about noise takes over their thoughts 24/7. This is the issue I see on here day in day out. Again, I recommend protecting your ears - I’ve never been about not protecting - it’s about taking control of that decision and not letting it control you.

I’ve been around LA and many other noisey cities and got by just fine. It would be useful to have earplugs on hand but it should t be a prerequisite that ear plugs are required to safely navigate a city. There is a huge difference between city noise and a loud rock concert put it that way. There is also a world of difference between an explosive impulse sound such as a gunshot and a toilet lid falling.

 

Yeah actually that's true, you definitely aren't on the extreme end. Idk like I wish I could agree with you but like I got an increase from a spring-loaded cabinet slamming shut while I was at work, now granted it was made of sheet metal which made it super loud, but like after that I became much more fearful of everyday situations. Because a "normal" situation made my tinnitus louder.

 

But in saying that I dont think a toilet lid is loud enough to cause permanent damage.

 

These discussions have been going on since TT was started so I don’t think there will ever be a ‘model’ to live your life by. I will always recommend that people stay away from extreme behaviours because it almost always ends up impacting upon one’s life, and quite detrimentally so sometimes.

Interestingly enough, in the real world, I’m considered by the audiologists I’ve seen to be too cautious. Work that one out. In the tinnitus bubble (in other words talking amongst other sufferers on here) I should be protecting a lot more.

 

You see I understand where you are coming from too. I didn’t bother getting any ear protection until over a year after getting T. Mine wasn’t caused directly by noise, but the older you get the harder it is to rule it out as a contributing factor. I assumed in the first 6months it would just go away. I just kept clear of the typical loud places where you need to shout to be heard.

But of course it didn’t go away and I know for a fact that loud noises have worsened it. Seeking professional help has worsened it. You can believe what you want, it’s up to you. But now I have to live with what seems to be chronic ASD. Could I have avoided it? Maybe, maybe not. Even with positive thinking luck hasn’t always been on my side.

As mentioned before, I still rarely ever use ear protection. I do believe in sound exposure. But I can’t ignore what my ears are telling me when they get irritated and what I know via experience. It’s not even a conscious thing. Hyperacusis can make things sound painfully loud. There’s very little anxiety involved or negative thinking towards sound. I’ve learnt to control my startle reflex well. But controlling how you feel and think only works so much. There still a physical component to it. So I wouldn’t be hasty assuming phonophobia.

You know, if one is not careful, even doing this can unintentionally contribute to phonophobia.

I walked around NYC and it wasn't that loud.

Maybe you should visit a developing country and see how strong your resolve is.

 

I think sometimes I’m misunderstood: I’m not trying to be a hero. If I visited a city and I thought ‘this is insanely loud’, I’d put earplugs in. I just haven’t encountered that yet.

I’ve got ear defenders all over the place (tub of foam ones, over head ear muffs, ACS custom pros with 4 sets of filters) so I use protection quite a bit when it’s necessary. I think it’s bad when predetermination is present. In other words: a lot of people will avoid something because it ‘might be noisy’ without having any idea. For example: someone might say I’m not leaving my house today because there’s a storm, or I’m scared to go to London because it might be loud etc. This is when tinnitus is dictating to someone and this is when you see people starting thread after thread about panic spikes. In nearly every instance it’s their own extreme fear that causes their misery as it’s a vicious circle.

I protect my ears. I just don’t leave the house with earplugs already in ‘anticipating’ the dangers. I used to at one point and I was miserable.

As I’ve said before though, if people are getting by behaving like this then it’s fine. We are all free to live our lives as we wish, and as long as we are happy, we are doing the right things. I just can’t see how it will benefit people as a whole.

 

@Ed209 you just reminded me. Tropical thunderstorms too. I had bad experience last year caught outside during one.

 

That's true, but that person is going to be contributing among 100 others who also give you advice. Knowing who to pick and who to trust for quality advice is the challenge. Some of the advice can be downright dangerous, especially because it is provided without the proper medical context (that doctors have access to).

At the doctors office, there aren't that many people to give you advice, and there isn't that much of variety for advice, but I think it is of much higher quality, if we were to think in terms of large numbers and statistics (i.e. no need to bring up an anecdotal evidence where some guy on the forum was right and some doctor was wrong - we all know it happens all the time, but it's only good enough to fall for hasty generalizations).

 

I completely agree with this. A line is crossed quite frequently on here where advice is handed out about taking various drugs, but the people in question have no medical qualifications. Not only that, but no knowledge of the persons medical history to which they are giving the advice to.

 

And YET
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...orum-more-useful-than-your-ents-advice.28006/

This logic can be used to justify driving over the speed limit, smoking, drunk driving, etc.

 

Bottom line, if your hearing (as opposed to just ear fullness) has been affected by a loud noise incident, going to a doctor is important. No one here can prescribe pred unless they are a doctor. It’s still up to them to decide if a patient can or should take it.

I would choose a GP over an ENT any day, because they understand their duty of care better, are more empathetic and are easier to see. Of course if I knew of a good ENT I would go to one.

 

I agree in principle, but for some people accessing certain drugs is quite easy. There are even stock piling methods suggested on here. I, for example, have unlimited access to prednisone because my mom is on it long term and she can get more of it on a repeat prescription whenever she wants. In fact, she has a cupboard full right now.

If I was more naive, I could quite easily follow the advice I read on here and take it everytime I panick about a noise. It’s also a case of people recommending dosages by telling others to ignore the Drs dosage and take what they recommend instead. This is usually followed by advising the said person to try and access more of the drug to make up for it running out early.

 

The standard dose (the one prescribed by doctors) of prednisone is 1 mg per 1 kg of body weight (not to exceed 60 mg) per day, for 14 days + tapering. If your doctor prescribes 10 mg per day, the doctor is doing it just to get you out of his or her office, while Not actually giving you a prednisone prescription that you are begging for.

 

OR: he knows something about you (medical history, examination data, current meds taken, other) that would make him decide that the lower dosage would be more appropriate for you.
It certainly makes sense to question the suggested dosage, but to assume that it's bogus and driven by the will to get you out of the office is, to keep it polite, "a bit far fetched".

 

When I saw an ENT a couple of days after the onset of my T, he greeted me with "How are you?", and I burst into tears. As a result, he told me that I appeared to be on edge, and so he refused to extend the 5-day prednisone prescription that I got at the ER. (As a result, I might have ended up with life-long T.) So this is an example of a doctor using "examination data" to adjust the dosage (to 0, in my case). Also, keep in mind that as far as the doctor is concerned, T is just a minor annoyance that people get used to. The doctor might not fully realize that for some patients, failure to prevent T might mean that the patient will be have no choice but to commit suicide. This means that any cost-benefit analysis performed by that doctor will produce nonsensical results.

The worst part is that prednisone doesn't even have any impact on me, as far as stress and being strung up is concerned. When I was given a prednisone prescription at the ER in the evening, I took a pill right away. I had no trouble falling asleep, despite the fact that something like drinking coffee at any time after 8 am prevents me from being able to fall asleep until 3 or 4 am.

You know more about your situation and your preferences than your doctor. During countless experiences (me, my family, family friends, co-workers) throughout my life I learned that the doctors are great when it comes to a 10-30 of the most common health conditions. If you suffer from any of the other conditions, you are out of luck as the doctor will not know much about your condition. The vast majority of doctors are NOT going to waste their time wracking their brain about what could possibly be causing your symptoms. They are not going to spend hours investigating the pros and cons of the various treatments. It is up to you (and your family) to invest your energy and time into it - then you have a chance of having the medical system work well for you.

Thinking a doctor will help you (or even care enough to want to help you) will give you a false sense of security. You will waste a lot of time and find out the hard way that it was a mistake to think that. You ought to get medical textbooks at a university library and get to know everything there is to know about your condition. Then you will want to spend days reading the latest medical studies (Pubmed and Scholar.Google.com) on your medical condition. Once you know exactly what you want your doctor to do for you (what prescription to ask for, etc.), you are ready to see your doctor. If you want to increase the chance of recovery (and if your disease is not one of the popular diseases), you have to invest your time and effort into it (because your doctor won't).