Why No Surgery/Amputation for Tinnitus?

Discussion in 'Support' started by ifilip, Nov 27, 2016.

tinnitus forum
    1. ifilip

      ifilip Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud sound
      Why surgery/amputation is not used to treat tinnitus? For example if you have major hearing loss and loud tinnitus, why not amputate inner ear? Yes you will not hear anymore with that ear, but so will your tinnitus go away. I'm sure lot of people with severe tinnitus would do this, if that option was available.
       
    2. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      This is available. This does not always stop tinnitus.
       
    3. glynis-harbron
      Feminine

      glynis-harbron Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Ambassador Team Awareness Team Research

      Location:
      England, Stoke-on-Trent
      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meniere's Disease
      Gentamicin injections into the ear can destroy your balance,hearing and can stop tinnitus for some people and used for Menieres sufferers that medication and steroid injections in the ear haven't worked to control vertigo , so I think that would be tried first ...lots of love glynis
       
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    4. Ecip

      Ecip Member

      Location:
      Edmonton, AB
      Tinnitus Since:
      4.11.2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Still unknown... possibly noise exposure?
      Since tinnitus is caused by the auditory cortex of the brain, removing the ear will not really do much in most cases..
      Tinnitus can have numerous causes, and isn't limited to just acoustic trauma, nerve damage, meniers, etc.
       
    5. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      There are cochlear implants, but they are a patchy fix in many cases.
       
    6. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      I can only speak to why an outer ear isn't cut off. In the day of the internet, possibility of cyber bullying and copycatting, if you cut off an ear, many may misinterpret and believe you are trying to emulate Vincent van Gogh. Even though Vincent was a small man, these are large shoes to fill and without question there will be reprisal if one does this and why I believe many don't want to go there. YMMV.
       
    7. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      Yes, you paint a bleak picture there.
       
    8. MikeL1972

      MikeL1972 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Uknown
      As mentioned, tinnitus is in the brain and unfortunately, science and medicine do not yet know how it truly works and all the nuances associated with it (ie. neurons). However, in the coming years there will be more information. As a matter of fact, I read an article just a few weeks ago where a team is planning to map the human brain! This is obviously going to be groundbreaking once completed! Let's stay positive!
       
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    9. Marie79

      Marie79 Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2/1/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      They've done that and it didn't work. It's speculated that's why Van Gogh cut his ear off too
       
    10. volsung37

      volsung37 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      There are many deaf people who have tinnitus. Can't think of many things worse. At least ambient noise can mask a bit for non-deaf folks
       
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    11. Candy

      Candy Member Benefactor Team Awareness

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unidentified
      It stems from the brain...without the cochlea you may still hear tinnitus.
       
    12. Sam Bridge

      Sam Bridge Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/gigs probably
      Do we have a cochlear for each ear?
       
    13. leledany

      leledany Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-11-02
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      I agree with ifilip! If the T is caused by hearing cell or neuron synapse that spikes without control why not kill them? I think it is similar when we have a painful nerve of the theet, what the dentist does? He devitalize........ why not doing the same?
       
    14. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      The cochlear sends the tinnitus signal to the limbic system in the Brain. It is here, the tinnitus is generated. Severing the Auditory nerve or amputation of the ear will make no difference, as the tinnitus will still be heard. For this reason, most deaf people that have tinnitus still hear it. It must be particularly difficult for them if the tinnitus is loud, as they are unable to use "sound enrichment" to help make the condition more tolerable.

      We do have a cochlear in each ear @Sam Bridge.
       
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    15. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      Everything this forum has considered and a lot more has been considered by scientists in much greater depth. I believe the issue with your thesis is targeting not only which neurons are specific a given person's tinnitus...but also the synergy between neurons if you kill a given group which is the affect to a person's overall health...cognitive ability, overall emotional state etc.
      A hugely daunting problem and why it hasn't been solved to day...but I believe will one day which btw, may have nothing to do with altering neurology...but rather an adjunct to the brain which intercepts and modifies the aberrant signal to cancel out tinnitus frequencies.
       
    16. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      No. The cochlea does not generate the signal, which is why amputating it does not stop the sound. The limbic system does not generate the tinnitus sound, but rather amplify it as it's function is to alert us to danger.
       
    17. GregCA
      Frustrated

      GregCA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      Remember that there are many types of Tinnitus, some of which are not generated in the brain.
      We tend to assume all T is akin to ours, because that's our familiar reference, but that is not true at all.

      There may be a reasonable divide in categories based on whether the T is a fabrication in response to the lack of signal from peripheral organs, rather than an excitation of a working peripheral organ due to another pathology.

      I wish doctors would investigate root causes a little more to devise potential treatments more intelligently, rather than shooting in the dark or trying to target the symptoms themselves only. Addressing the symptom is not a bad idea on its own, but should not be the only thing we go after, especially since we don't have a working solution for that either.
       
    18. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      most have said this already in great detail but in the simplest terms, tinnitus it in the brain, so even if you completely disconnect 100% of your hearing, you will STILL hear tinnitus. Even some completely deaf people suffer from tinnitus.
       
    19. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      It worked for some people though.
       
    20. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      According to Professor Jasterboff . Starting on Page 27 (onwards) of the Tinnitus Retraining Therapy book. The tinnitus signal is generated in the cochlear and it sends the signal along the Auditory nerve and up to the brain - this is when the tinnitus was caused by "loud noise exposure" which is what I mostly deal with when writing about tinnitus.

      @Tom Cnyc In my first post, I didn't actually mean the tinnitus signal is generated in the cochlear. I meant, when tinnitus is caused by "loud noise" the "ear hairs" surrounding the cochlear become damaged, so it sends incorrect electrical signals up to the brain and it's here the tinnitus is generated. I have the TRT book with me but haven't got time to go through it in depth at this moment. I will however return to this topic. I always thought the tinnitus was generated in the Limbic system, so If you are right and I am wrong, then I thank you for informing me.
      Michael
       
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    21. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      yeah, but contextually your post is confusing given the topic of this thread. this isn't a Jastreboff TRT thread. It's a thread on why can't an amputation work to solve this.
       
    22. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      As I said in my original post @Tom Cnyc Amputation of the ear or severing (cutting) the Auditory nerve will not stop the tinnitus from being heard.
       
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    23. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      OK...the cochlea doesn't generate it. The limbic system doesn't generate it.
      What generates the tinnitus sound?...or are you saying that tinnitus is simply typical noise in the auditory track that is over amplified...in fact analogous if not related to many times companion hyperacusis which is the over amplification of the auditory signal?
       
    24. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss

      https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-multiple-regions-cause-tinnitus#.VT0VHK1Vikq
       
    25. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @stophiss When tinnitus is caused by "loud noise" the tinnitus is generated in the cochlear, according to Professor Jasterboff. Not all tinnitus is generated in the cochlear but when the tinnitus is caused by loud noise, which is the most common, it is generated in the cochlear then the signal is sent to the Auditory nerve and up to the brain and into the Limbic system. It is here, the Limbic system grabs onto it and never lets it go. The limbic system is responsible for our emotions: love, hate, fear etc and that's why our moods (stress levels etc) affect the perception of tinnitus so much
       
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    26. GregCA
      Frustrated

      GregCA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      You make it sound like there's only one answer... we already know that there is more than one answer to that (off the top of my head I can think of 3).
       
    27. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      Not to be a pedant, dude... but since you advise people on this you should really use the correct vernacular.... its the cochlea. cochlear is an adjective, not a noun.
       
    28. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      It is such a shame when some people resort to such pettiness at an attempt to score points. It makes me think, is there another agenda here? I didn’t realize I was attending a college or university. I just thought this was a forum where people in distress with their tinnitus come for help. Any advice that I give is based on my experience with tinnitus when it is caused by “ loud noise”. I have never claimed to know everything about this condition, and therefore always willing to learn from others.

      If your tinnitus was loud and intrusive which I am sure that it isn't, then you would think twice before behaving in such a manner.

      Since you want to get pedantic about this although I would rather not. The correct way to address me is Mr Leigh or to be less formal, which I don’t mind, as this is a public forum, Michael will suffice. When addressing me please don’t refer to me as “dude” Whilst we are on the subject of the vernacular, I have always used the word cochlear and have always seen it written that way and will continue.

      It is unfortunate there are people that carry on this way in forums. I thought you were someone that I could converse with occasionally and not like one or two others here, whose only purpose is to cause friction and discord. Clearly that isn’t the case and therefore I bid you goodbye.

      Michael
       
      Last edited: Nov 29, 2016 at 11:20 AM
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    29. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      Really well said thanks Michael.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    30. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      To me you are a pretty thoughtful guy and this is beneath you Tom. We are all friends here stuck with the same issue.
      If being pedantic, preoccupation with syntax or vernacular on a public message board is obfuscation....distraction of the truth. You are clearly smart enough to understand that and this transparency is needless. So if Michael or others make a good point or not, ok to debate them on the substance of their point, but poor form to criticize style or syntax which looks a bit desperate.

      We have way more questions about this disorder than answers as we all feebly migrate toward the truth and the starkest truth being what we struggle with the most which is our utter lack of control to extinguish the sound in our head.
      Cheers Tom.
       
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