16 kHz Hearing Loss — Intratympanic Steroids or Stem Cells?

Discussion in 'Support' started by vttbx, Jan 12, 2020.

    1. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      I am two weeks out of a noise exposure with considerable loss at 16 kHz. Lots of threads here on both treatments but I was wondering if anyone has had success with either. IT carries many risks and would need a series of four. Stem Cells are hard to find in the US. Or is recovery at that high of a frequency not possible?
       
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    2. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      Why would you even want to recover at 16 kHz? It's way outside the speech range.
       
    3. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Neither is a guarantee but I would definitely do the steroids if it were me over stem cells acutely. It seems to make a pretty big difference in sudden hearing loss.
       
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    4. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      For one, because sudden hearing loss in the upper frequencies gives you tinnitus.
       
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    5. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      Because my entire frequency response has been affected. I have always had a dip at 8k which hasn't changed. Things now sound vastly different. I'll explain more in another post.
       
    6. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      My doctor told me the SSHL is more associated with a viral cause rather than noise-induced. So fewer studies on IT for NIHL.
       
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    7. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
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    8. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      How were you able to measure that?
       
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    9. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      Extended high frequency test.
       
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    10. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Hm, I wonder if they simply don't exist in Sweden. I've been looking and looking.
       
    11. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      Also, I'm very sound conscious so I knew when things were different. Ex. ripping paper, water in the shower, my guitar.
       
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    12. Gman
      No Mood

      Gman Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic earwax drops, worsened by MDs (Muppet Doctors)
      I'm so sorry that happened. I'm guessing the NMN/NR wasn't much help?
       
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    13. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      You are correct. I would say it's only effective for very mild T.
       
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    14. Gman
      No Mood

      Gman Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic earwax drops, worsened by MDs (Muppet Doctors)
      That's been my worry too with it and all the other supps. I hope things improve for you soon.
       
    15. Mymlan

      Mymlan Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      They exist. I made one through ”STOP-projektet”.
       
    16. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Damn, maybe I should have gone then. I just didn't see any point in risking doing the other tests.
       
    17. Mymlan

      Mymlan Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      I refused to go through the other tests. The audiologist just looked at me like ”what is wrong with you?” Then he called on Christopher (the manager for the whole project), who came in and had a chat with me for two ours about tinnitus, then he offered me and extended audiogram.
       
    18. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      An audiologist got MAD at me for refusing to do a tympanometropany test. She was like 65, I'm amazed she doesn't realize that for some people that test is dangerous after all those years
       
    19. Mymlan

      Mymlan Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Hahaha, unbelievable.
       
    20. Juan

      Juan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      For me it makes no sense to search treatment, involving drugs like steroids, let alone stem cells, just for a loss on such a high frequency... even if it affects your tinnitus, I think you are likely to get back to baseline. The tinnitus is a consequence of hearing loss normally, but it also can get reactive to the frequency you don't hear, when you hear that sound above your hearing threshold. However, 16 kHz is a very high frequency... Do you perceive sounds on that frequency often? Which sort of sounds?
       
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    21. Samir
      Obedient

      Samir Manager Staff Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Accoustic trauma
      Could you share it with the rest of us? ;)

      I forgot all about that project. :)

      Project website:
      https://stop.ki.se/

      What other tests? Tympanometry?

      I have done the tympanometry once. Not as part of the STOP study, but I also did the questionnaire part of the STOP study. Haha! I'm the best! Only answered some questions! (y) It's not my fault. They never called me in to do the test. Not everyone was called in I believe. You had to be a good candidate I guess... Anyway! When I did the tympanometry test, I did in a hospital setting, and it did not change my tinnitus. It is fairly safe. Fast forward 2 years and my tinnitus worsened doing a plank at the gym. :rolleyes:
       
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    22. Mymlan

      Mymlan Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      @Samir You mean my audiogram result?

      They wanted to do a lot of loud tests, but I don’t know the name of them. I remember it was tympanometry, and other tests that can reach up to 90 dB.

      I only did the extended audiogram and LDL (loudness discomfort levels).
       
    23. Mymlan

      Mymlan Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Here is my audiogram up to 16kHz.
       

      Attached Files:

    24. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Can you elaborate please? Listening to the "problem frequency" even if you don't hear it because of hearing loss can ramp up tinnitus, is that what you mean?
       
    25. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Interesting. Do you know what frequency your highest pitched tone is?
       
    26. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      As someone who does a lot of planks, did you do them often before this incident?
       
    27. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Intrusive and debilitating since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Yes that, but mainly the Auditory brainstem response test or whatever it's called. I think it's 90 dB sounds in headphones for an hour or so. Not exactly my idea of a constructive thing to do with my time :headphone:
       
    28. GregCA
      Jaded

      GregCA Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      What does the "U" mark mean?
       
    29. Samir
      Obedient

      Samir Manager Staff Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Accoustic trauma
      No, it was my attempt at making a joke. But what I meant to say is that extended hearing tests are not readily available for anyone at any local audiologist office, even when the testing equipment is capable of it. The reason you got one is that you were taking part in a research study where they decided it would be a good idea to go beyond the 8 kHz limit.

      Why most audiologists will normally only test your hearing up to 8 kHz is because that's where the upper bound of the human speech is. This is the so called "speech banana" you can somteimes see on an audiogram. Next time you do a hearing test, you can ask your audiologist to overlay your audiogram with a banana before it's printed out! :)

      Although human speech (banana included) flactuates somewhat, depending on the definition (vowels 8 kHz vs. consonants 6 kHz), it is generally said that 8 kHz is the upper bound of human speech. The is what an audiologist will tell you, and that's not a lie, but there is more to this though that they will not tell you. The less obvious reason why audiologists don't go above 8 kHz when doing a hearing test, even when they have the right equipment for it (not all of them do unfortunately), is that most hearing aids don't have the capability to amplify sounds beyond 8 to 10 kHz. So their objective, as audiologists, is to see if they can fit you with a suitable hearing aid. Their job is not to do scientific testing of your hearing ability. And that is more telling than anything about this whole "industry".

      Thanks for sharing the diagram though! From the looks of your diagram, you have a very good hearing. The "U" shaped marks represent hearing levels with masking if I recall correctly. I can see from the diagram also that they at least have the capability to do a number of other tests:
      • DLI
      • QuickSIN
      • Bekesy
      • LIPread
      • Tinnitus
      • Ljudstyrka - skalning
      Differential Limen for Intensity
      Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6750796/

      Speech In Noise
      SIN refers to Speech In Noise. But here, QuickSIN refers to a software product by Interacoustics. Which reveals that the lab has access to testing equipment made by Interacoustics. Nice!
      Source: https://www.interacoustics.com/guides/test/audiometry-tests/quick-speech-in-noise-quicksin

      Békésy
      Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiometry#Subjective_audiometry

      LIPread
      Lipreading test? I don't how or why you would measure someone's ability to lipread. Perhaps LIP means something else in this context?

      Tinnitus
      I'm not sure what this is used for. Some note taking? Maybe it's for tinnitus questionnaires like Tinnitus Handicap Inventory? It may even contain the obtained results of the patient, for each patient had to fill out a length questionnaire and send it to KI by mail. Upon which they then selected patients for additional lab testing.

      Ljudstyrka - skalning
      Ljudstyrka literally means sound strength. Skalning means scaling. So this is likely where they put in the data points for LDL (Loudness Discomfort Levels). This is a scary one, one I think people with tinnitus should reconsider doing. Note that they are often administered as part of or immediately following a Tympanometry (Greek for "drum measure", i.e. pressure testing).
      Source: https://www.everydayhearing.com/hearing/audiology/loudness-discomfort-levels/
       
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    30. Juan

      Juan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      That's a perfect audiogram. Can you swap it with mine? :-P

      The LDLs seem pretty low though. Was it because you were already feeling very bothered by sound at 55 - 60 dB or because you didn't want to risk it with higher decibels?
       

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