A List of Places Where You Could Be Exposed to Loud Noises. Places to Watch Out for.

bill..

i stand by what ive stated...

 

Not all buses sound the same. Nor do we all have the same bodies. There is a lot we do not know about this condition do to it being poorly reseached. I have found that the advice of others, while helpful, cannot always be what is best for us. We have to listen to our bodies. The first advice I got for my chronic pain, while he was a jerk about it, was a necessary part of dealing with pain.

"If it puts you in pain, don't do it."

I hated this advice. I hated it. I was mad, upset, and I refused to listen to it. But I broke because I am only human and I cannot endure the torture my body puts me through. A lot of what I learned from chronic pain seems to transfer over to tinnitus too.

These past months with tinnitus has taught me a lot. Being anxious at work made me think I had to quit it, when in reality I have learned it is fine. I am aware of how much the anxiety contributes and my experience on that bus has helped me let go a little. It has helped me realize most scenarios people post on here in regards to sudden noise would not seriously affect my tinnitus.

I know my body more than you do, I know the bus I ride more than you do, and I am aware how much mood plays a part. Bottom line is when there is no cure, little research, and little science we will try just about anything such as all the bs treatments in the treatment forum. If it works for you, it works for you. Glorified placebo or not it is worth the money. If your tinnitus bothers you why shouldn't people try to cut some noise out of their life?

I haven't thought of my T this little in a long time. I can say that I have carved back some happiness in spite of my cp. That is what matters.

 

I have had a similar experience. Before I started to be serious about protecting my ears, I was stressed out. After I began protecting my ears, I got serenity back in my life.

 

We have to try and be objective @Bill Bauer. It’s highly unlikely that a bus intercom is going to damage someone’s ears whilst they are wearing ear muffs. The most probable reason is that @Red has a phobia to sound, hence the spike.

Hi @Red, I understand what you’re going through, but I think there’s more going on in your case. How loud was the intercom? I’ve been on buses all over the world, and I’ve never come across one I’d deem unsafe -whilst wearing earmuffs - in my entire life.
I still think these threads are more damaging than useful. In my opinion.

I’m pretty sure we all understand that noise is dangerous by now; at least I hope so. But, I also think some of you underestimate the affect these threads can have on new sufferers. I can say with some certainty that at least a few people reading this will start to doubt whether it’s safe (for their ears) to catch a bus. Where does it end? We’ve got the fear of doorways, microwaves, fridges and showers etc, covered. And now we can add travelling by bus to the list. Let’s just add everything else to the list and stay at home, just to be sure.

I’m not trying to be sarcastic or horrible, but want to be as blunt as possible.

 

I (and apparently Red) believe that it is impossible for stress to cause a T spike that lasts longer than a week. In addition, she had been stressed out for a long time, and yet her spike begins after a noise shock. Also, it sounds like she has other health conditions that causes stress to peak for her, and yet she never noticed a serious correlation between stress and T spikes.

What remains is that her spike was caused by that noise.

If you can, it is a good idea to do that during the first year after the onset of your T. There is a non-negligible chance that one's T will disappear in less than 6-9 months if one does that (and then one could slowly resume one's normal activities, while making sure to analyze all of the environments one finds oneself in and act appropriately). The probability that T will fade faster if one tries to stay home is non-negligible.

 

Is this before or after you give yourself a nervous breakdown?

The moral of the story here is to be sensible around dangerous levels of noise. There is no need for this hyper-vigilance.

 

When you you reduce your chance of being exposed to noise and if your T starts improving, why would you have a nervous breakdown?

You are more likely to get a nervous breakdown if you get exposed to a loud noise followed by having to deal with screaming T.

In any case, let's let the folks reading this decide for themselves.

 

When I talk to doctors about my pain they say, "That is impossible." Those words do not make my pain go away nor does it help them come to a diagnosis when I am dismissed without further help. They are not in my body so they cannot understand. Medical training can only help so much as we still have so much more scientific progress to make.

I know the bus intercom being as loud as it was, which I believe I was sitting next to the speaker as only one of my ears spiked, gave me a second tone.
I know that after I stopped riding the bus my T overall lowered.
In case there has been confusion, I did not get a permanent spike. And I think it is a little unfair to say a bus cannot spike my T, especially when you take into consideration H.

I agree it is healthier to not be anxious and being a shut in for a lot of us is not possible. It is just I cannot take any post here as fact when the medical community knows as little as it does. You can say a bus intercom cannot harm me but I cannot take these words as a factual statement, just as my words have no real power behind them.

 

I agree with this, but some will decide through fear.

I understand why some would want to go protection-crazy, but I don’t think you fully acknowledge or understand what this can do to a persons mind. I don’t think you see it at all. You are potentially breeding toxic mindsets.

I’ll make this my last post because I’m clogging the place up with the same message.

I think I’ll make this my last day as well, so if I don’t see you in a while, I wish you all the very best.

 

I think this is the best comment in this thread, the debate between ’live your life’ and ’always use earmuffs’ reminds me of the debate climate in Sweden, where no one can give the other part credit for having some valid points, and its all about winning the debate more than helping people. The swedish elections next fall will be like this, and I will not stand to follow it. @Ed209 and @Bill Bauer have a lot of good knowledge but uses it to crush each other. If you have a critical mind and a lot of time, you can pick the raisins from both cakes, but this kind of all or nothing-take, one dress fits all-approach is not good for desperate people in need of support, because when you read stuff here, in a desperate situation, the risk is big that you believe what ’some guy on the net’(selfmade experts always seem to be men) claimes to be the truth, but the only truth is whats stated above.

One example is my own story, where I would follow @Ed209 advice before my tinnitus got worse, and @Bill Bauer s advice these days, when I get new sounds when someone talks to loudly close to my ears. You have to chose your own way, but if you notice that doorslams and dogs barking give permenent damage, not just an stressrelated spike, then I would suggest to follow @Bill Bauer s better safe than sorry-approach for a while, for me that kind of living is really bad for my depression, @Ed209 is spot on with that one, but worsening tinnitus is what made me depressed, so I can’t take more risks at the moment. If my ears were stronger, I would try to test my luck a little bit more, but just a little bit, because I learned the hard way this is not the case at the moment, I need to adapt to a boring life or risk a worsening of my tinnitus, its the sad truth, its my new reality, and I hate it. I think its an extreme, my story will make new sufferers with mild tinnitus to hide from dogs and run away from kids, and that kind of being afraid of everything behaviour sucks the life out of you. So as long as your tinnitus not get worse by normal sounds, then why not live a good normal life? The problem is that a normal day can produce a 167db balloonpop, it was that kind of thing that made my tinnitus worse after 17 years of a protect when necessery-lifestyle. And now I am in @Bill Bauer land, and need to protect my ears to 70+DB sounds instead of 100+DB sounds.

 

But... that's good, right? Fear is what keeps you safe.

Someone might listen to your advice and get hurt:

I don't claim anything - I always provide the links to horror stories that support my points.

Could you please give one or two of those valid points given by each side of the debate in Sweden? I think I know what debate you are talking about, and I can't think of any valid points for one of the sides of that debate.

You are ignoring the possibility that protecting our ears from 70 dB sounds might promote actual healing for some people (who would not see fading otherwise).

I don't have diabetes, but several years ago I bought a device to measure my blood sugar. I believe knowing how one's body reacts to different foods and knowing how this changes over time (and adjusting one's diet accordingly) reduces the chance that one gets diabetes. It is more fun to use this device when one is healthy, compared to when one already has diabetes. Likewise, the best time to protect one's ears is when one doesn't have any ear problems, Not AFTER one has ear problems...

 

Very good balanced overview of the two sides to this question @Björn.
&Ed209 says do not obsess and over protect.
&Bill Bauer be ready for noise, use ear plugs etc...
I feel that most of us who’s T got worse over time, know that it was the result of further trauma, further damage.

Tinnitus sufferers Know That they have got T, believe me!
Not having ear plugs ready, will not make us forget we have T.
We can’t forget it - it is always there.
Having ear plugs in your pocket just in case, does not make that knowledge an obsession.

We will each choose our own path, and instinctively, I will be on the careful side.

Love and best wishes to everybody,
if I had a magic wand, we would all be well,

Jazzer xx

 

Agreed @Bill Bauer - living (noise) dangerously is a gamble.

 

So you are saying that things improved once you decreased your anxiety (regarding noise).

I had a similar experience in that decreasing my anxiety helped. I decreased my anxiety with CBT, rather than wearing earmuffs and earplugs everywhere.

 

While I agree some people here go overboard with hearing protection, this increase in noise sensitivity after wearing hearing protection is only a temporary one. It is not the same thing as the brain turning up the auditory gain when there is a permanent loss in hearing.

With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.

What is safe for you may not be safe for me. And the fact is there has been no good study done assessing the vulnerability of already damaged auditory systems. The gold standard for dangerous noise levels is based on old data from OSHA where they looked for permanent threshold shifts of 10db or more at 2000, 3000, or 4000 Hz. As we know now, you can have fairly significant auditory damage without having a permanent threshold shift in those three ranges. There is also a lot of industry push-back when OSHA tries to make safety guidelines more strict (I haven't seen this with noise levels, but I have seen it with chemical safety guidelines). Moreover, it's very likely that some people are more genetically predisposed to hearing damage than others.

What I'm getting at here is I agree with you that some people really do go overboard with hearing protection, and obsessing about noise is not healthy, but it irritates me when people adopt this attitude of "well it works for me therefore it must work for you" or "it's safe for me therefore it's safe for you". No one can say that.

 

I was talking about my anxiety regarding noise. There are other sources of anxiety too, and I haven't noticed any correlation between my overall anxiety and T.

 

Hi Alue, I don’t disagree with anything you have said at all. All I’m saying is that for the vast majority of people most of these sounds are not really considered dangerous. What would you estimate the SPL of a bus intercom to be whilst wearing ear muffs? I’ve seen everything discussed from protecting whilst washing up to protecting against falling toilet seats. The problem here is that there is virtually no way you can go through life avoiding noises that fall into these ranges. The only way would be to wear ear muffs 24/7, which seems to be the direction a lot of people are heading in. I’m just trying to put some perspective on here. I’m not saying dangerous noises can’t happen, but people are literally freaking out and PMing me because they are terrified of all sorts of normal sounds. The by product of this is a huge increase in phonophobia.

It’s all about balance and perspective. What happens when someone forgets to put their ear muffs on one day, and then someone drops their phone or some other object? Usually, this results in an unpleasant overreaction because they have fears driven by what they have read on here. That’s all I’m saying. Again, I’m not saying someone can’t damage their ears in day to day life, but I still drive my car knowing it could kill me. I know analogies like these are pretty poor, but it’s the same token principle.
Where do we draw the line?

 

The idea is not to eliminate exposure. The idea is to minimize it.

 

Yeah, I agree with you there. There are some people on here whose issue is more anxiety than noise, but there are other people here with serious hearing conditions that don't fit in the normal range. Until you get to know the person, you can't really determine which it is. I have a hard time determining where to draw the line for myself. My work takes me into noisy areas and I don't know how much I should put up with and how much protection is necessary for me. The thing is that line is different from individual to individual, and we are left figuring it out for ourselves.

 

I do want to emphasize that this was not just 'a bus intercom.' This was a bus intercom with its volume probably at max. I had been riding the same bus for 2 years and know it rather well. If it was loud enough to give me a new tone (even temporary, count myself lucky ) then I do not consider it safe for me. Buses may vary but in my area our buses are kinda of rundown and crappy.

 

I got a new stapler. I inserted staples into it, when I closed it, I discovered that it closes with a loud sound. T in my formerly healthy ear (that got a T sound 2 months ago after some dishes clanked near my ear) immediately got a lot louder. We are talking something like 10 times louder...

The above are just the facts. It happened 15 minutes ago. I am not going to talk about my emotions and how this makes me feel.

My Peltor muffs were right there, within reach. Normally I wear them whenever I use the stapler. This time I wasn't going to staple anything. I didn't realize that this new stapler was loud when one closed it, but I Should have anticipated it...

So....... stay away from staplers, I guess.....................
I am having trouble finding an icon for "laughing while crying"....

 

Maybe frequently wearing earmuffs has made your ears more susceptible to spikes from sounds that would otherwise not impact tinnitus. Using a stapler to staple is not likely loud enough to warrant wearing earmuffs to avoid hair cell damage.

 

The incident undid weeks of healing that followed that "plates clanking" incident. But I am mostly back to yesterday's baseline now... It was still Messed Up! In the past, T took hours or days to get louder following an exposure to noise.

 

I had a chance to read your message, Michael. I am not sure why you decided to delete it.

 

I didn't delete it @Bill Bauer it was the powers at be that done it. I have received private messages and emails regarding someone making unsavoury comments about me and therefore I feel I'm entitled to voice my opinion. I have had twenty two years experience with tinnitus and I'm still learning. Some people have had it for 5 mins and think they know everything and I'm not referring to you.

You have always been respectful and polite towards me and I admire that.
Take care

Michael

 

I was messing around with a dB meter yesterday, because my wife and I were trying to figure out which of the usual kitchen activities that we do, should involve putting earmuffs on our baby when she's nearby.

Coffee grinder: ~110db right next to the machine, 80db at my head level when I'm running it, 75db at the baby's head level from her high chair

Steaming milk for espresso: ~112db right next to the machine, ~81db at my head level, 76db at the baby's head level.

Splitting wood w/8lb maul: ~114db peak, 1' away from point of impact

My takeaway from this was that the coffee & milk are fine for baby except that the noise really startles her, so we'll continue to put her cute little muffs on, both to spare her the surprise and to get her used to wearing them around loud noises. For me, I wear muffs when I'm splitting wood, which is the loudest (and most time consuming) thing on this list. (Baby will never be anywhere nearby when I'm splitting wood because that would be wickedly unsafe, so no problem there).

In years past, I used to wear muffs when I ground coffee, but my hearing is better now and I don't have any reactivity / changes in hearing from this stuff, so I stopped worrying about it years ago. Even if you think OSHA standards are woefully inadequate, ~45 seconds of 80db sound per day doesn't concern me, that's significantly less noise exposure than I got in the first half of my walk to work when I lived in the city.

 

This is interesting, thanks for sharing. I have a loud noise to add: tearing tinfoil. I once measured it around 90dB near the foil. I am unsure the range actually near my head, but I am sure it’s lower. Plus the few seconds are unlikely to cause long term damage.

 

Yep, one I've noticed from using a meter is that if you set it to "peak" mode, which means it constantly displays whatever the single loudest sound it's detected are, peaks in any given environment will be way, way higher than the average. If you're in a room where there's some basic conversation happening over light background music, the averages will be in the 65-75 range, but if you lock on the peak you will see occasional spikes to ~100 or even higher when people sneeze, or drop a fork, or laugh uproariously. Such peaks are not dangerous, and using the average is a much better way to assess exposure in usually loud environments.

'Unusually loud' environments, like firing ranges or construction sites are a different story, but impulsive peaks need to be well over the 120db mark to be worrying to me.

 

Not working for a living and living off of the land had been a fantasy of mine. Is that what you have been doing? I am asking this as a result of reading the text on your avatar and the quote above...

 

one other little aside about "usually loud" noises: I've often seen people make the claim here that we "didn't evolve" to deal with the kind of really loud noises we're exposed to in cities. I quite agree, and I do think that much of what we consider "age related hearing loss" in the industrialized West, is actually cumulative noise-induced hearing loss from a life spent around cars and guns and construction sites.

That said -- you know what else is incredibly loud? Little kids. We've only got one, and she can belt out sustained bursts of well over 100db when she's mad about something. So, if you think of a "traditional" proto-human living in a cave or other enclosed dwelling, probably surrounded by an entire extended family and a whole ton of little babies who might all be unhappy and screaming at the same time... basically implies that for all of human history we've been exposed to this "unreasonable" noise. So, tinnitus in humans probably goes back at least that far. Of course, by the time you have a bunch of rugrats crawling around your cave, you have fulfilled your evolutionary purpose. I'd say tinnitus is pretty natural, and also clearly doesn't actually affect the ability & desire to procreate very much... since we know that it's got a strong genetic component, it would have been eradicated from the gene pool if it were otherwise.

And, yes, I realize it's an exponential scale and therefore a single Guns & Roses concert at 122db is worse than spending a year in a cave with 110db of screaming primordial human baby.