ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy) — Reviews, Comments? It Seems Like a Crude Approach

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by Contrast, Apr 13, 2020.

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Where should research grants for tinnitus and neuropathy go?

  1. Behavioral therapies

  2. Biomedical sciences

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    1. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy) is a behavioral therapy promoted at the highest levels of academia by psychologists who have lots of influence in the NIH/VA. It does not seem this behavioral approach rose to the spotlight because of patient advocacy. Rather psychologists lobbied the NIH to get ACT where it is today. The actual people suffering did not influence this process.

      ACT's core principle and assumption is to separate pain (noxious stimuli) from suffering (behavior/mental aspect) as well as teach the sufferer aspects of CBT and positive goal oriented behavior. There is nothing wrong with CBT in principle, but this ignores the role of suffering in the person's life, it seems to just be focused on disciplining the person that suffering is irrelevant.

      In my opinion ACT's core arguments are based on bad reasoning, the power of persuasion and economics (to take people off disability who need it). Just because ACT is recommended by doctors, therapist and everyone in authority, doesn't mean it's good. Bad ideas can infiltrate at the highest level of academia and it takes brave people to stand against them. Tinnitus Talk represents brave lay people who want biological sciences to advance so we can one day see progress in the field of tinnitus, noise induced pain, hearing loss and distorted hearing.

      Why can't patients choose a grant goes towards biomedical research or to the 20th century behaviorist? If patients could VOTE whether grants go to funds biomedical research or more of the same ad nausea behaviorist, I think they'd choose the biologist. Arm chair psychologists shouldn't be competing with serious biomedical scientist and that seems to be the case.

      I hope this post makes a constructive discussion on ACT and what role it plays in the tinnitus sufferers' life.
       
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    2. trft2

      trft2 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1958
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      No idea - maybe ear invections
      It's the cart before the horse. Without subjecting research subjects unduly, you need to identify more broadly over different frequencies and amplitude and duration, how much sound at a given frequency and amplitude is easily, or less easily, or not easily handled. If you can create an approximation of a general measure and know its variance of acceptability than understanding any indirect treatment that involves acceptance of a condition would be much more reasonable.

      Certainly anything that works is good. I'm all for that. Science needs generalizations, and psychology labs at universities have been working for decades in the arena of science. Of course psychology of an individual human brain is even better than social interactions, e.g. economics, because brains have evolved to a fairly specific organism. Human brains in general have a lot in common.

      OK, that's just my take. My expertise is limited. My work in a psychology labs was as a programmer while I was a graduate student.
       
    3. PhoenixAcademy

      PhoenixAcademy Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1995
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise?
      "ACT's core principle and assumption is to separate pain (noxious stimuli) from suffering (behavior/mental aspect) as well as teach the sufferer aspects of CBT and positive goal oriented behavior."

      Is that even possible?
       
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    4. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      Psychologists outnumber biomedical researchers by a long shot. It seems there is a lot more "research" on CBT and ACT, then regenerative medicine or understanding deep biological sciences. It only makes sense the larger community (psychologists) is better at lobbying for grants. It is also much cheaper and holds clinical value unlike research in a lab on mice that doesn't have clinical applications (yet).

      A highly specialized scientist holding a Ph.D in biomedicine, biochemistry, or another biomedical specialty is going to be a very rare discipline. That's the literal definition of an highly specialized scientific discipline that meets the qualifications of the word "elite". I don't know the statistics, but it's obvious psychologists outnumber them by a long shot. No one can accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist because it's obvious the higher skill ceiling career is going to be rarer.

      ACT and TRT originated from 20th century behaviorist. CBT has a mixed origin coming from both Eastern traditions and behaviorist. Biomedical sciences are one of the youngest of all scientific disciplines. We find ourselves in a crude part of human history where medical science has not yet advanced and psychologist following the 20th century behaviorist ideas of B.F Skinner sit at the highest levels of academia acting like they have it all figured out. It feels like people suffering with tinnitus, neuropathy, fibromyalgia or whatever horrible affliction are treated like human cattle on their farm. They lobby for grants while lay people are completely ignorant of this fact.

      https://grantome.com/search?q=cbt+pain
      https://grantome.com/search?q=trt tinnitus
      https://grantome.com/search?q=acceptance and commitment therapy
      https://grantome.com/search?q=behavioral pain management

      Someone smarter then me needs to do the research and find out how much money is spent on biomedical sciences compared to behavioral therapies, for every health problem (tinnitus, nerve pain, IBS) individually and for every era (1990, 2000's, 2010's, 2020s) and see if my criticisms hold valid. I can say with confidence tinnitus "research" had been clowned on by the behaviorist but I don't know if it's the case for every disease.

      I just want to be healthy again, if I was healthy I would not be freaking out over the fact that biomedical sciences are in their infancy and elite psychologists fill in the niche. I'll never be able to start classes, get a career or make friends in this damaged shitty biological prison I am forced to live in.
       
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    5. LongWait

      LongWait Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Concert
      I'm amazed The Tinnitus Clinic make the claims they do. Levo, Desyncra, hearing aids, stress reduction. Fair enough, but when you read their website some people will believe they get silence and they an't offer that for sure.
       
    6. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      They are not just putting psychology before biology. It all boils down to economics. ACT and CBT are cheaper then biomedical research. The reason ACT rose to power is because of the opioid epidemic killing people and it looks better than its alternative (opioids).

      Source:
      https://www.kpwashingtonresearch.or...kpwhri-3-heal-grants-totaling-over-15-million

      Obviously they mean well, but the actual problem has to do with a lack of biomedical science. After the opioid shills lost power, the CBT and ACT shills began. No one takes biomedical sciences seriously. So don't expect scientific progress to be made anytime soon. They were all dozing off in biology class but took B.F Skinner's promise of utopia seriously.

      I just want my health back, I wouldn't waste my life criticizing elite psychologists if I had my health back. We could close down the forum and get on with our lives.
       
    7. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      If you raise awareness for tinnitus, neuropathy or whatever horrible disease that happens to have little attention. It's considered uncouth for we (the lay people) obviously lack medical knowledge.

      However It's not just a medical topic it's a biological topic, we are biological organisms and we experience defective biological processes that make our lives miserable. It only makes sense people with bad biology end up asking about damaged body parts and why they have damaged body parts. If you are being tortured by bad biology, your goal will be to find a way to solve the problem, not just shut up and live with it. We should have the right to voice how we feel without censorship.


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    8. Harley

      Harley Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Sounds just like another good ole pseudo treatment, which deals with the effect rather than the cause.
      It is then much easier (and cheaper) to shift the blame on the sufferer, should this "therapy" fail.

      "He/she wasn't doing it right, wasn't disciplined enough, suffers from mental illness, didn't follow the right protocol"...etc.
      They will never admit the fact that some people simply will not get used to this, no matter how much Orwellian double-think they get exposed to.

      We need real, actual solutions, not any more of this mental quackery hiding under different acronyms.

      We have provided a treatment based on our belief that "everyone can habituate" but the patient is not responding to it.
       
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    9. Tybs

      Tybs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fall from stairs
      My main issue with some TRT treatments. Having used its basics myself, I have no issues with the psychological approach, but don't go badmouth the patient if it does not have the desired effect: continue the diagnosis on physical levels.

      Which, btw, should happen in either case. The psychological "treatments" should be used as support bars while finding out the true cause, so that the patient does not fall into depression (or worse) while the real cure is being worked on.
       
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    10. ASilverLight
      In pain

      ASilverLight Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably noise, stress and a neck injury.
      I too believe that the basics could be useful for anyone, if only to ease one's distress. But it shouldn't be presented as a cure or even a real treatment - perhaps to the patient to increase the likelihood of a positive outcome, but the medical community needs to stop pretending it's an actual treatment.

      Anything that does not diminish the actual problem isn't a treatment. I don't fear my noise at all. When in silence, it doesn't bother me at all, I notice it, that's it. But that doesn't mean I'm not still suffering, worrying about an uncertain future. Only a cure can genuinely take that away.

      It's useful to deal with it from day to day, but we deserve better than this, we deserve better than to be blamed if it doesn't work.
       
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    11. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
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