BEWARE of the ECoG Test! Made My Tinnitus Much Worse

[Dizzyhead888]

Just wanted to give heads up to the members hear about the ECOG test for hydrops, where they place electrodes in your ears to test the inner ear pressure.
This test is regarded by many doctors as useless and does not really diagnosis or add value.

In any case, it made my tinnitus much worse from mild 3/10 to 9/10 and got my hyperacusis. HORRIBLE.
Worst thing in my life!
Even though I was not comfortable, I continued with the test assuming that the doctor does it a lot and would have known if it has side effects.

 

[Bill Bauer]

Even though I was not comfortable, I continued with the test assuming that the doctor does it a lot and would have known if it has side effects.

They know it has side effects. It is a risk they are willing to take...

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[jimH]

@Dizzyhead888 ...Thanks for trying to warn and therefore help other forum members about the possible side-effects of the test. I'm really hoping that the worsening of your T condition is just temporary.

Here's a lady who woke up with loud pulsating T the day after having the test:

https://forums.webmd.com/3/cold-and-flu-exchange/forum/5037

 

[dpdx]

I did the Caloric Test and it made me have H on both ears and T on the right ear. I also have ear popping on the right ear. So dangerous!

 

[dpdx]

Just wanted to give heads up to the members hear about the ECOG test for hydrops, where they place electrodes in your ears to test the inner ear pressure.
This test is regarded by many doctors as useless and does not really diagnosis or add value.

In any case, it made my tinnitus much worse from mild 3/10 to 9/10 and got my hyperacusis. HORRIBLE.
Worst thing in my life!
Even though I was not comfortable, I continued with the test assuming that the doctor does it a lot and would have known if it has side effects.

When did you do the test?
Did you have H prior to this test?

 

[Dizzyhead888]

When did you do the test?
Did you have H prior to this test?

i did it 2 months ago.
Did not have H, had a 3/10 T before the test, now its 8-9/10 and got H

First night I got it, nothing was effective to make me sleep. Until the morning, took 2 xanax pills and one lexotanil all together at last to sleep.

I feel if I bump into the doctor sometime in my life, I dont think I would be able to control myself.

I saw a renowned neurologist for my dizziness problem after all of this happened to me and mentioned to him that i did an ECOG test. He was like "this test is useless and not used nowadays".

 

[Dizzyhead888]

I did the Caloric Test and it made me have H on both ears and T on the right ear. I also have ear popping on the right ear. So dangerous!

I did the caloric test with air rather than water. It didnt have an impact on my tinnitus.
Regardless now, i would never ever repeat it.

 

[dpdx]

I did the caloric test with air rather than water. It didnt have an impact on my tinnitus.
Regardless now, i would never ever repeat it.

I did the caloric test with water and it caused me to have H on both ears. Ruined completely.

 

[dpdx]

i did it 2 months ago.
Did not have H, had a 3/10 T before the test, now its 8-9/10 and got H

First night I got it, nothing was effective to make me sleep. Until the morning, took 2 xanax pills and one lexotanil all together at last to sleep.

I feel if I bump into the doctor sometime in my life, I dont think I would be able to control myself.

I saw a renowned neurologist for my dizziness problem after all of this happened to me and mentioned to him that i did an ECOG test. He was like "this test is useless and not used nowadays".

yup, same here. My tinnitus was mild it was a 3/10 and it didnt bother me, i can only hear in quiet places. After the caloric test with cool water i developed H on both ears and a ear popping sound on the R ear.

 

[dpdx]

I did the caloric test with air rather than water. It didnt have an impact on my tinnitus.
Regardless now, i would never ever repeat it.

isn't that worse? with air?

 

[Dizzyhead888]

I got dizzy, which you are supposed to. However, I did not have an adverse reaction. The caloric test in general is very annoying. However, now i will never do any such tests that interfere with my ear.

 

[dpdx]

I got dizzy, which you are supposed to. However, I did not have an adverse reaction. The caloric test in general is very annoying. However, now i will never do any such tests that interfere with my ear.

Me neither. I did mine with water and got H on both ears, T in both ears, ear popping in R ear, ear wooshing sound, and this weird feeling with the eardrum.

I didnt honestly think that water could do damage.

 

[dpdx]

Just wanted to give heads up to the members hear about the ECOG test for hydrops, where they place electrodes in your ears to test the inner ear pressure.
This test is regarded by many doctors as useless and does not really diagnosis or add value.

In any case, it made my tinnitus much worse from mild 3/10 to 9/10 and got my hyperacusis. HORRIBLE.
Worst thing in my life!
Even though I was not comfortable, I continued with the test assuming that the doctor does it a lot and would have known if it has side effects.

is ECOG really loud?

 

[Dizzyhead888]

is ECOG really loud?

yes

 

[dpdx]

yes

how loud? did it cause you hearing loss?

 

[dpdx]

@Dizzyhead888 is the ECOG like VEMP? It has to do with electrodes like VEMP. What is the sound like? Is it a rumbling/clicking sound

 

[Dizzyhead888]

@Dizzyhead888 is the ECOG like VEMP? It has to do with electrodes like VEMP. What is the sound like? Is it a rumbling/clicking sound

They put electrodes literally inside your ear to touch the cochlea. then clicking sound is emitted.
It is very lound since its close to the cochlea

 

[Aaron123]

They put electrodes literally inside your ear to touch the cochlea

They do NOT put electrodes in your ear to "touch the cochlea". That would require significant surgery.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

They know it has side effects. It is a risk they are willing to take...

Of course they're willing to take the risk. It's not their lives they're ruining.

 

[dingaling]

They do NOT put electrodes in your ear to "touch the cochlea". That would require significant surgery.

Don't they do transtympanic EcohG where a fine needle electrode is pushed through the eardrum to lie near the basal turn of the cochlea?

 

[Samir]

Don't they do transtympanic EcohG where a fine needle electrode is pushed through the eardrum to lie near the basal turn of the cochlea?

This is my understanding as well, as can be seen in the pictorial below.

This is transtympanic (TT) Electrocochleography (ECoG). The second type is called Extratympanic (ET). As the names imply, with one of them, the instrumentation is placed through the ear drum, and in the second, it is placed outside of the ear drum.

There have been studies done comparing TT to ET. You find a short excerpt from one such study.

Diagnostic sensitivity is enhanced with the use of the transtympanic method according to the results of our study.

Source: http://file.scirp.org/pdf/IJOHNS_2013090313162755.pdf

The proper placement has been considered vital in obtaining reproducible and well-formed waveforms with the best location being the round window niche. However, Krueger and Wagner demonstrated that the same waveforms may be obtained by placing the needle at the promontory, lateral, or medial niches.

The ET method involves placing an electrode in the ear canal or on the surface of the TM. The ET method is less invasive, however the TT method has typically been quite safe and well received by patients. Each method involves the delivery of a stimulus as either a tone burst or a click.

 

[Aaron123]

Don't they do transtympanic EcohG where a fine needle electrode is pushed through the eardrum to lie near the basal turn of the cochlea?

Yes, they can, but it still doesn't enter the inner ear and therefore does not touch the cochlea. According to a site I trust, needle type ECOGs are not commonly used anymore due to the invasiveness and pain (https://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/testing/ecog.html)

 

[dpdx]

This is my understanding as well, as can be seen in the pictorial below.

View attachment 15405

This is transtympanic (TT) Electrocochleography (ECoG). The second type is called Extratympanic (ET). As the names imply, with one of them, the instrumentation is placed through the ear drum, and in the second, it is placed outside of the ear drum.

There have been studies done comparing TT to ET. You find a short excerpt from one such study.


Source: http://file.scirp.org/pdf/IJOHNS_2013090313162755.pdf

OH MY GOD!

 

[Tinker Bell]

OH MY GOD!

Ummm, read the comment directly above your own. This is not a common procedure. Most ECOGs are not conducted with a needle.

I had intratympanic steroid injections. If anyone had a needle ECOG they would know. A needle through your eardrum is not pleasant. Incidentally a diagram of intratympanic injections probably looks similar. Diagrams of most medical procedures look rather frightening.

 

[Samir]

Yes, they can, but it still doesn't enter the inner ear and therefore does not touch the cochlea. According to a site I trust, needle type ECOGs are not commonly used anymore due to the invasiveness and pain

I'm not sure I understand this logic. You mean you have to pass the bony labyrinth to touch the cochlea? So the snail shaped part of the bony labyrinth doesn't count as cochlea? You have to come in contact with the cochlear duct to count as touching the cochlea?

Just because it's not commonly used anymore doesn't mean it was not used in this particular case. We don't really know what protocol or technique was used, do we? And how do you know how common or uncommon it is to use this more invasive version of the test? Based on that text by Timothy C. Hain, MD?

Needle type ECOG's such as shown above have fallen out of favor by most clinicians, because they are generally judged to be unreasonably invasive and are painful too (Bonucci and Hippolito, 2009). Their main use would seem to be in a person who has a perforation or who is undergoing surgery, as in this case, the needle can be place through the perforation and provide a better signal without doing any additional damage to the ear.

The abstract of the referenced article can be found here:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/lary.20105/full

Objectives: To determine the differences between tympanic and extratympanic electrodes regarding recording technique, comfort and ease of execution of the exam, and quality of auditory potential tracings.

They didn't investigate how common the transtympanic test is.

Results: Twenty-three subjects (15 men and 8 women; mean age: 33.17 years) with normal tonal threshold audiometry were evaluated.

Very small sample.

Conclusions: Both electrodes were effective for EchoG evaluation, but the extratympanic one was easier to insert and did not cause discomfort. However, the tympanic electrode produced tracings of greater amplitude and of better reproducibility.

It's not likely that this one small study changed the clinical future of transtympanic ECOG.

In the text by Timothy you can read:

ECochG has been well studied. In Pubmed, there are approximately 345 publications with Electrocochleography in their title, going through 2013.

This doesn't really say anything about how common transtympanic ECOG is, just that ECOG as a whole has been studied.

 

[dpdx]

Just wanted to give heads up to the members hear about the ECOG test for hydrops, where they place electrodes in your ears to test the inner ear pressure.
This test is regarded by many doctors as useless and does not really diagnosis or add value.

In any case, it made my tinnitus much worse from mild 3/10 to 9/10 and got my hyperacusis. HORRIBLE.
Worst thing in my life!
Even though I was not comfortable, I continued with the test assuming that the doctor does it a lot and would have known if it has side effects.

Are you feeling better? Is it still the same. I also did caloric test/vemp back in January and I didnt see much improvement. My T was mild from Sep-Dec, it is fairly loud now. It is a constant 9 and sometimes it drops to a 8 and 7 minimum (which to me is relief). I also have Severe H where I cant endure me talking or other people talking because it hurts my ears. I didnt get better. When I had mild T I slept like a baby now I barely make it over 4 hours because my T is so loud. I cant hear it over shower or being next to a busy road.

 

[dpdx]

So both Ecog and Vemp can cause NIHL

 

[dpdx]

@Dizzyhead888 any updates man? how are you feeling now?

 

[Dizzyhead888]

@Dizzyhead888 any updates man? how are you feeling now?

I am ok. it's permanently higher. I am living with it. inside the house, I try to keep speakers with ACRN on in the background at home.
I took Lexapro for other health problems. The sound level didn't get lower. But outside home, I hear it much less. but in the house i hear it over anything even TV sound at the highest. Its just maybe outside the house, given that I am walking, taking Lexapro and extra nature sound, I hear it much lower.

 

[dpdx]

Same VEMP made my permanently worse.