Can I Become a Surgeon Even If I Have Tinnitus?

[Apocalypse77]

Well just read the title.
IS this possible? Can I become a surgeon, I know they use drills and all kind of tools.

 

[glynis]

Im sure you can...
If like Holby City off the TV they play music while they do the operations.
Love glynis

 

[Michael Leigh]

Well just read the title.
IS this possible? Can I become a surgeon, I know they use drills and all kind of tools.

Yes I'm sure you can become a surgeon. However, it also depends how loud and intrusive the tinnitus is. My ENT consultant told me one of her junior Dr's misses some lecture classes when his tinnitus is severe. Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. Many people habituate to their tinnitus and are able to carry on with their life doing everything that they want to without any problems. It all depends how loud the tinnitus is and the ability one has to be able to cope with it.

Best of luck
Michael

 

[brownbear]

There are many factors that determine whether someone should become a surgeon, and tinnitus is NOT one of them. It's irrelevant. Even the normally sage Dr Nagler often says that you can't be a brain surgeon if you have tinnitus, which is total rubbish. Of course you can. Do what you want to do and become a great surgeon. Good luck.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Dr Nagler often says that you can't be a brain surgeon if you have tinnitus, which is total rubbish

With respect. Your statement that Dr Nagler is talking rubbish, is a clear indication that you have never suffered from loud tinnitus, that can be continuous or variable. I do an it's not a nice experience and take medication to help cope with it. This does not mean that I haven't habituated. Unless you have experience with severe tinnitus then you you're not really qualified or have any authority to say how a person is able to cope with it.

I agree, that a person with tinnitus will be able to be a brain surgeon. However, as I've mentioned above this condition comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. A wrong statement that some people make that I've read in tinnitus books: Tinnitus can't kill you it's just a noise learn to ignore it. This is another indication that a person writing such drivel has never experienced loud intrusive tinnitus. When this condition is loud and intrusive and it is sustained, it can force them to do things such as suicide to get relief form the torment they are in, and wouldn't contemplate if they weren't in such a distressed state. There lies the paradox.

Please think before you make statements about a condition you know little about. I have had 22 years experience with tinnitus and counsel people with it. If tinnitus is severe in the manner that I've said, whether continuous or variable in intensity, it can become a major factor in a person's life and will determine what they can and cannot do.

Michael

 

[brownbear]

@Michael Leigh . I have loud unmaskable T constantly with no variability that forced me off work for months, culminating in an attempt on my life and requirement for heavy medication. With respect, give it a rest.

 

[brownbear]

@Michael Leigh. I'm curious to know if you had been 'counselling' me at my lowest point, whether you would have said "well it sounds as though your T is too severe and loud and I don't think you will be capable of returning to work as a surgeon if it stays like this, sorry to break it to you".

 

[Michael Leigh]

I have loud unmaskable T constantly with no variability that forced me off work for months, culminating in an attempt on my life and requirement for heavy medication. With respect, give it a rest.

@brownbear

What you experienced isn't what I consider loud intrusive tinnitus that has been sustained for a long period of time. Mere months and then you returned to work. Like many people with this condition, they habituate within the first 6 months to a year sometimes a little longer which is a good thing. This isn't debilitating tinnitus and hence for your inexperienced post as a newbie to this condition written above. I don't normally comment on a person's post, unless something is said that I know to be totally untrue as this instance.

I hope you never experience severe debilitating tinnitus that affects a person's mental wellbeing not just for a few months due to a little background noise in their auditory system and eventually they learn to habituate. But years and can mean taking medication daily to cope. In addition, wearing devices such as white noise generators - this can also require being under the care of a Hearing Therapist long term for counselling. It can affect their ability to work and change their way of life in a profound way; whether using one of the treatments above or a combination. Now that is severe tinnitus.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[brownbear]

@Michael Leigh. I'm not sure you understand what I've been saying. My tinnitus hasn't changed at all and I don't consider myself habituated. I remain heavily medicated. I still believe that if I suddenly gave my T to a non sufferer it would make them want to vomit. My life has been and remains 'profoundly affected'. What I dislike is potentially harmful comments that suggest to a person that if certain levels of T are reached (whatever that means) then they cannot fulfil they're potential. Of course noone has any idea what each person is experiencing which is why neither you nor I are in any position to cast aspersions about the severity of someones T. For all I know your severe days are nothing compared to my constant level, likewise I may have pathetic 'little background noise in my auditory system' as you so delicately put it. Who cares? You can be sure that if I'd been having this conversation with you a year ago (with how it would have made me feel) then I would not be here now and I think you need to be careful about the message you send, particularly as a lot of what you say is very sensible, so it's a shame. You also didn't answer my question above. What would you have said? I would have told you then and still would now that my T is severe and devastating. What would you have said?

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm not sure you understand what I've been saying

On the contrary @brownbear I understand everything that you are saying. In answer to your question. If you had told me: I would have told you:
"Brownbear, only you know how you feel and you're the best judge to know whether you can be at work or not". I would listen and advise the best way forward that I think is right, but ultimately leave the choice to you.

Many people say they have severe debilitating tinnitus when it isn't, at least for the majority of the time. Some people say people handle severe tinnitus in different ways. This is quite true. I tell you this, based on my many years experience with tinnitus and there are more experienced people in this forum than me. Anyone that has severe debilitating tinnitus and I don't care who they are, cannot do a full time job as concentration will be too difficult and will be to unable do such things as even turn on their computer and browse the Internet when the tinnitus is severe. Believe me I know what I'm talking about. Men and women have telephoned me numerous times in tears because of the distress that they are in. Fortunately, some do habituate and are able to resume a normal life doing all the things that they want to.

Severe debilitating tinnitus, whether constant or variable in intensity as mine is: From complete silence, mild, moderate severe or extremely severe - and takes medication and other treatments as I've mentioned above, then this is severe tinnitus and that is the point I want to put across. There are people that like to play down the severity of tinnitus and believe anyone and cope with it and this is certainly not the case. By nature I am an optimistic person. One only has to read my posts on my "started threads" but I also like to speak the truth and know full well what I'm talking about. There are people that visit this forum had tinnitus 5 minutes and think they know all about it and I'm not referring to you - although I disagree with your post about Dr Nagler's comments profusely in this instance.

I shan't be commenting further on this subject and I hope that you feel better soon.

I wish you well
Michael

 

[brownbear]

So it looks like I meet the conditions for severe debilitating tinnitus. I was off work for months, unable to get out of bed, did not contact anyone and hardly spoke or ate. You will note I was absent from this forum for some time. My T has not changed (if anything it has worsened since the start) so I must have adapted (somewhat) to the severe levels, which is the point I am trying to make. I am working better than ever as I really enjoy the way it distracts me from the T.

Dr Nagler recently wrote on his Q and A forum that his T is completely unchanged from when it began and it in no way affects him at all now. He even uses the dreaded socks analogy. I understand that he left his job as a surgeon when he got T. I wonder now whether he still feels that was the right decision for him given how little it effects him.

I feel strongly about this as I don't want any readers to feel that there is something inevitable about the outcome with severe T. Not to say that the journey won't be monumental difficult for some, but you can be sure that the journey would be a lot harder if in the back of your mind one is constantly thinking 'this can become a major factor in a person's life and will determine what I can and cannot do'.

No response desired thanks.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@Michael Leigh – I suspect you are so hard-wired to your self-made ideology of regurgitated knowledge of TRT and audiology that, even long after "the cure" has been found, you will still be roaming the corridors of TinnitusTalk preaching your own views to a then-vacant community. Occasionally, you might wonder to yourself "where is everyone?" – only proceed with another day of lecture by responding to old posts from a former era...

 

[Michael Leigh]

@attheedgeofscience

Another forum time waster.....

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience

Another forum time waster.....

Like I have said before Mr. Leigh: "self-deceit" – like tinnitus – is known to be pretty hard to cure. Shall I share some more screenshots with the community? It's not a problem, you know...

 

[Michael Leigh]

Like I have said before Mr. Leigh: "self-deceit" – like tinnitus – is known to be pretty hard to cure. Shall I share some more screenshots with the community? It's not a problem, you know...

At least you have some manners and respect, as I was beginning to think that you were of a certain type that I don't care to associate with. I appreciate that.
Thank you

Michael

 

[attheedgeofscience]

At least you have some manners and respect, as I was beginning to think that you were of a certain type that I care not to associate with. I appreciate that.
Thank you

Michael

Hey Michael... Thanks... but, I wouldn't thank me too early. After all, I haven't shared all of my screenshots yet...

 

[Michael Leigh]

Hey Michael... Thanks... but, I wouldn't thank me too early. After all, I haven't shared all of my screenshots yet...

lol...It's a good thing then you don't know my real name or where I live....

 

[grate_biff]

One doesn´t disrespect Dr. Nagler on @Michael Leigh ´s watch. Actually, you two are quite alike. So hung up in your own "divine knowledge", so self- absorbed, you will stop at nothing to down-talk others who don´t support you or have a different opinion.

Please, @attheedgeofscience . Put that "TRT-pusher" in his place!

 

[brownbear]

@Luman. Ah but that ENT won't have had severe debilitating T to the extent that some on this forum have had. No way

 

[Michael Leigh]

Put that "TRT-pusher" in his place!

Another forum brawler that has to rely on others to do his dirty deeds. Interesting. My ignore list is accumulating a lot of names.....

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Please, @attheedgeofscience . Put that "TRT-pusher" in his place!

Thanks for the opportunity, but I would rather not. I have certainly contributed to a number of heated debates in the past – but – I kind of feel I have moved on (sticking mainly with pharma company updates, advocacy – and – with events such as TAW). However, here is what I will do: if TinnitusTalk would like to have the copies of these three papers on TRT, then I am willing to get hold of them (I have at least one of them already). As an example, and since this is TAW, [USERGROUP=15]@Team Research[/USERGROUP] could then convene behind-the-scenes, read the papers and come to an informed conclusion as to whether TRT is a treatment to recommend (or not). These papers are recent and contain follow-up research on TRT (that's why they are "sort of" interesting). After you reach a conclusion, you could then better adopt a stance on whether continued posts from certain members like @Michael Leigh should be allowed...

My suggestion (for what it is worth)...

 

[Michael Leigh]

So it looks like I meet the conditions for severe debilitating tinnitus.

@brownbear

On this rare occasion I will respond to a topic when I have previously said I will not be commenting further.
Please understand and believe when I say that I'm pleased that you have returned to work and find your tinnitus easier to cope with. Again, I genuinely mean that. I believe your tinnitus was indeed debilitating from the outset and have enough experience to know when someone has been there. Unfortunately, the type of severe debilitating tinnitus that I'm talking about isn't what you have. Please read my two last posts again. In short, when someone has severe debilitating tinnitus and this is sustained. In most cases they will be unable to work due to the severity of the condition and will have to be receiving long term treatment in the manner I've mentioned in my last two posts. This is what I am referring to which is completely different to what you have.

I was retired on medical grounds do to my severe tinnitus. Indeed, I have habituated. As I've already mentioned my tinnitus is variable in intensity. There are many people with this type of tinnitus variable severe tinnitus and those that have it constantly. I take clonazepam to help cope with this condition as many people do when it is severe and debilitating. Fortunately, you haven't been affected in this way long term but you did have it for a period of time.

I wish you well and hope this matter will now be put to rest.
Michael

 

[brownbear]

Oh my head hurts from this brick wall. I must say that a lot of these posts when I look back at them are at best patronising and at worst unkind and hurtful. I think I better refrain from giving the response that is running around in my head right now.
@GregCA where are you when I need you? I much prefer our more constructive critiques of each other!

 

[grate_biff]

Indeed, I have habituated

I take clonazepam to help cope with this condition as many people do when it is severe and debilitating.

So, is it fair to say you are part time habituated due to TRT and part time a benzo-head?
Or is benzo an intrical part of TRT and habituation?

I wish you well!
grate_biff

 

[Tinker Bell]

@Michael Leigh. I'm not sure you understand what I've been saying. My tinnitus hasn't changed at all and I don't consider myself habituated. I remain heavily medicated. I still believe that if I suddenly gave my T to a non sufferer it would make them want to vomit. My life has been and remains 'profoundly affected'. What I dislike is potentially harmful comments that suggest to a person that if certain levels of T are reached (whatever that means) then they cannot fulfil they're potential. Of course noone has any idea what each person is experiencing which is why neither you nor I are in any position to cast aspersions about the severity of someones T. For all I know your severe days are nothing compared to my constant level, likewise I may have pathetic 'little background noise in my auditory system' as you so delicately put it. Who cares? You can be sure that if I'd been having this conversation with you a year ago (with how it would have made me feel) then I would not be here now and I think you need to be careful about the message you send, particularly as a lot of what you say is very sensible, so it's a shame. You also didn't answer my question above. What would you have said? I would have told you then and still would now that my T is severe and devastating. What would you have said?

Thank you for saying this as well as your other posts on this topic. There is a continual pattern of belittling the suffering of fellow forum members. Suggesting that if someone does not do exactly XYZ — just like they did — then their tinnitus must not be severe. That attitude is hurtful, unkind and unnecessary on a support forum. Thank you for speaking up and providing your insight to the author's post.

@Apocalypse77 You specifically mentioned drills and tools versus the ability to concentrate. Surgical tools depend on the type of surgery. I have had five surgeries, none used drills. Many surgeries are moving to laparoscopic tools, and my understanding and experience is that these are not very loud nor very invasive. I think as technology continues to improve, surgical tools will evolve too. If your concern is surgical noise volume, I do not think you should let that hold you back.

I wish you luck in whatever endeavor you pursue! I hope you can use the bad in your life (tinnitus) to bring good to others, to better empathize and show compassion to those in need and suffering. I really think you can!

 

[Luman]

Well just read the title.
IS this possible? Can I become a surgeon, I know they use drills and all kind of tools.

Yes, you can become a surgeon, despite tinnitus. I have gone to an ENT who does brain skull surgery, implants, and other delicate procedures, and he has tinnitus. Although I don't know exactly how bad his tinnitus is, he did mention that he tried all of the alleged cures, none of which worked.

 

[brownbear]

Thank you @Tinker Bell. I hope you are doing ok. I guess everyone has their own narrative that they use to justify the position they're in, including me. At the heart of it I think is that noone likes the idea that someone else could deal better with their problems (T in this case) than they can. I have to accept that some people could have my T and be fine with it, however much I doubt it! As you know I only have some background auditory hyperactivity!

I really did not expect that my optimistic post at the start of this thread would result in such vitriol. I hate getting into these arguments but I have to defend myself, mainly because I don't want other to people to think that some of the BS said on this site is the gospel truth.

None of us knows exactly the right way to approach the problems we face or we wouldn't be here. I was lucky enough to see some world renowned therapists for my T and I can tell you with absolute certainty that they would NEVER allow people to feel that T might control what they can or can't do in life, regardless of 'severity'.

 

[Ambassador]

Did I read this correctly that apparently the UK considers tinnitus a disability, in the US they do not consider it a disability?

 

[Michael Leigh]

Did I read this correctly that apparently the UK considers tinnitus a disability, in the US they do not consider it a disability?

The UK government and the majority of employers know that tinnitus can be seriously debilitating condition when it is severe. Please don't think medical retirement is easy and for anyone to get. If a person living in the UK has tinnitus and believes they can say to their employer or the government for that matter. "I have tinnitus and can't work". And think they are going to be believed or receive a retirement settlement from their employer on medical grounds. I assure them that they won't. However, once certain criteria are met which I will not divulge in this forum for obvious reasons. A person with severe debilitating tinnitus; whether it is intermittent, variable or constant, will get the understanding that they need in most cases as I did.

That is all I'm prepared to say on this matter.
Michael

 

[MBH]

I think it's a positive you want to be a surgeon, whether or not you have high or low T, if you work to get used to T, all the better. There are young guns on this site that are doing there studies with T. So, you can move forward with your goal in my opinion, I wish you the best! Also, I have a request I would like you to do surgery to the back of my head, and grab T out of my head. Or laser my head. Either way you have alot of studying to do.