Can Ketamine Infusion for Depression Worsen Tinnitus?

Discussion in 'Support' started by Grand05, Mar 13, 2020.

    1. Grand05

      Grand05 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ear infection
      I have severe depression from having visual snow and tinnitus, and I'm considering either suicide or Ketamine infusions for depression. From what I've read, Ketamine acts on NMDA receptors, thus raising Glutamate in the brain. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and possibly (?) can lead to worsening of tinnitus.

      Any thoughts on this, guys? If there are any evidence it can worsen tinnitus, I'm not going to do it, but I want to be sure.
       
    2. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      Why are you worried about it?

      If suicide is your alternative option, why not give Ketamine a try no matter how risky it is?
       
    3. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Grand05

      Grand05 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ear infection
      Easier said than done, my friend. I am considering suicide, but what if Ketamine will make me unable to do even that?
       
    4. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Grand05

      Grand05 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ear infection
      Anyone has any insight into this type of treatment?
       
    5. Michael B
      No Mood

      Michael B Member Benefactor

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      '11
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced
      It's a drug that's gotten a bad rap of late due to its illegal use. It's been around since the '60s but only more recently been considered for major depression when other medications fail to help. The FDA has yet approved it for depression but some psychiatrists are trying it experimentally with their patients. You may want to consult your physician.
       
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    6. TealD

      TealD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      I also would like to know if Ketamine makes tinnitus worse. I tried TMS therapy to treat depression and about two weeks in my tinnitus has gotten louder. This was after months of barely even hearing the tinnitus and forgetting I had it for the most part. I am pretty sure it’s not from anxiety either. I may start Ketamine to treat depression but I have to know if it can cause a permanent tinnitus spike.
       
    7. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      There was someone on reddit who claimed he got rid of his tinnitus via ketamine and pramipexole - he said he was a biology student/researcher. I tried to get more information from him but never heard back, unfortunately.

      Either way I would say it could have a significant effect as it clearly seems to touch on those receptors.
       
    8. Matthew Dean

      Matthew Dean Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu
      Ketamine should help improve tinnitus because it’s an NMDA antagonist.
       
    9. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      Where have you read that it raises glutamate? I've seen that it competes with glutamate, thereby blocking it from binding to NMDA receptors.
       
    10. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      Did you ever try it?
       
    11. Paul Walter

      Paul Walter Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2000
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Industrial noise
      Yes, Ketamine does make tinnitus much louder. I had it and wish I never had. The same goes for all antidepressants. I can't take any of them. They just blow my tinnitus through the roof.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    12. Chris Goodman

      Chris Goodman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Taking an antidepressant: Afflexor
      Would you mind elaborating on the type of tinnitus you have. Is it ring or hiss? Noise induced, trauma, or medication? I'm about to start Ketamine treatment and very curios. I would really appreciate it.
       
    13. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Virus / Microsuction / Acoustic Trauma
      Just wanted to see if you had tried this as I am also considering it.
       
    14. Matchbox
      Wishful

      Matchbox Member

      Location:
      BC Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      August 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced, Prednisone (drones), Barotrauma (distortions)
      Everyone is different.

      I've read of people whose tinnitus disappeared after Ketamine, and others where their tinnitus became wavering with distorted robotic hearing.

      The worsenings "SEEMED" to be temporary from what I've read. Still, it's a gamble.

      So basically flip a coin. It's either some pathway is too inhibited or another is too excited. The Ketamine will tone all of them down, so it's a crap shoot as to did it get the right one (or the wrong one).
       
    15. Lukee

      Lukee Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador

      Location:
      Toronto, Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Wim Hof Breathing Exercises
      I agree with this. It really is a flip of the coin. The Arizona clinic says it works for a portion of tinnitus patients and the results can be permanent. As you mentioned, worsening seems to be temporary but it’s always a risk I suppose. I don’t know much about the science of neurotransmitters, only that it’s next to impossible to measure them in the brain (currently). If we could know someone’s chemical makeup, I guess we could figure out which treatments might be beneficial. I’ve also heard that IV infusion is the only ketamine therapy that works for tinnitus.
       
    16. Matchbox
      Wishful

      Matchbox Member

      Location:
      BC Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      August 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced, Prednisone (drones), Barotrauma (distortions)
      And I was told steroids can't possibly make it permanently worse. I asked twice.

      Guess what happened when the steroids finished?

      I must be special.

      There's posts of people getting permanent tinnitus after tripping hard on DXM.

      DXM, for your information, has a VERY similar mechanism to Ketamine (blocks glutamate receptors with pretty high affinity), just a shorter half life (which to me means safer) and easier to get (side effects obviously of high doses, oral ingestion, like x4 above regular dose).

      I tried DXM. Yes, the "ringing" can go away (blew my mind), but trust me, you don't want what it gives in return for noises (thank god "most" of that faded). Think carol of the bells with only bells, it is almost indescribable. A very interesting experience, but likely what hell on earth is if it stuck around (it's the kind of wavering low frequency intrusive garbage that would make anyone jump into a train, trust me, ringing is the tip of the iceberg to this and it can be SO much worse).

      Every drug I've tried DOES something, and I ALWAYS pay for it. Feels zero sum and unfair.
       
    17. Paul Walter

      Paul Walter Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2000
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Industrial noise
      My tinnitus is noise induced - a loud pitched constant ring. Be careful or should I say give it serious thought. I had Ketamine and it caused a permanent spike it did not go away or reduce after procedure.
       
    18. Lukee

      Lukee Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador

      Location:
      Toronto, Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Wim Hof Breathing Exercises
      Thanks for the heads up. Did you notice the spike immediately after?
       
    19. Paul Walter

      Paul Walter Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2000
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Industrial noise
      Yes it was immediate.
       
    20. ChristianEsco

      ChristianEsco Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Music production & Nightlife job
      I have 4.5 grams of 95.5% pure mass spectrometer tested Ketamine. What should I do with it? I usually just snort it.
       
    21. VeganJS

      VeganJS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ketamine infusion
      I know this is an old post, and I hope you’re doing well with whatever you decided.

      The short answer is Yes! My tinnitus was barely noticeable until after probably close to 100 hours of Ketamine infusions over 2.5 years. The last treatment sent it to a level I never knew existed. It happened during the treatment, which was at the same very high dose I’d had for the last 5 or 6 treatments.

      A couple things were different, which the doctor knew about. I’d changed benzos, hadn’t taken any in about 36-48 hours (extremely long half life, but apparently it didn’t matter, benzos block Ketamine, thereby making it less effective) and the doctor administered Propofol and a numbing agent.

      This is a rare side effect, but if I already had the tinnitus I have now and I knew it could make it worse, I would stay away, and I am now, but it’s too late for me.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    22. TomBradyGOAT

      TomBradyGOAT Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who knows
      There are so many factors. I still don't know if you are saying it is definitely the Ketamine? Changing benzos can have the effects of withdrawal. That is why if someone is to move from Klonopin to Valium, it is a slow adjustment over.

      Having had tinnitus for five years and having had my fair share of Ketamine (most was 600 mg IV with Propofol), I can attest to it making it louder for a day at most. Also sensitivity, distortion and low rumbling noises happen. I never freak out as it will pass and it does. But causing it to be permanent, before never having it or a permanent increase, I just really haven't seen much of.

      There are a few. One being a person who snorted five grams. But man at that point it could have been laced, people do Ketamine at raves, so it is most likely the music, or some form of HPPD.

      I am definitely not calling you a liar. Just want to know when benzos are notorious for inducing tinnitus, especially as a cross taper can induce withdrawals.

      What was the numbing agent? What was the IV amount?
       
    23. VeganJS

      VeganJS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ketamine infusion
      It happened within 10 minutes after the infusion began. So, yes, I’m sure.

      I’ve been on benzos for years. They never were a problem, and still don’t affect my tinnitus.

      I never have withdrawn from benzos, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. I always skipped them for a day or two before my treatments.

      How many mg I was on is irrelevant. I had higher doses than that one, but for MH, they were much higher than normal protocol.
       
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