Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

Discussion in 'Research News' started by RB2014, Dec 8, 2016.

    1. Joly

      Joly Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      22/08/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Traumatisme sonore
      @Nobody19

      In the previous pages, I asked if FX-322 would help with TTTS, the answer was yes. I asked how it could be, I didn't get an answer.

      https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/525190/

       
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    2. sssing

      sssing Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      cold
      Hi @Joly, Sorry but I’m not familiar with TTTS... How FX-322 works is it’s supposed to regrow hair cells that are found in the inner ear. These hair cells helps in hearing and are often the reason for hearing loss. The hearing loss that comes with the loss of hair cells is called sensorineural hearing loss.
       
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    3. Nobody19

      Nobody19 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Clubbing
      We really don't know. FX-322 is mainly tested for hearing loss, and tinnitus as a secondary outcome. No mention of TTTS or hyperacusis unfortunately.

      Once it's available we might get anecdotal evidence for its effect on TTTS, maybe Frequency will start a new trial to test its effect on hyperacusis if it helps with tinnitus.
       
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    4. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      Does anyone know whether Frequency have started accepting new participants for the clinical trial yet and have started dosing them? October is in 4 months time, hopefully results don’t get delayed.
       
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    5. Christiaan
      Vegged out

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody headphones in 2016,worsened in 2020
      That's a tricky thing @FGG. For some of us who have lower frequency loss <250 Hz and tinnitus on that same level, how can we know or test the extend of our dB loss? A standard audiogram doesn't cover this area, unfortunately, so is there another way to gain insight in lower frequency dB loss?
       
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    6. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      You can get an extended audiogram that includes 125 Hz. Below that, you kind of have to infer it I think by what you can and can't hear and at what volume.
       
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    7. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      That doesn't sound encouraging to me. Consider that rarely if ever does anyone maintain their hearing all the way to 20 kHz. If that coincides with the tinnitus frequencies then you're screwed. I haven't done an extended audiogram but my hearing seems to drop off completely in my left ear at around 12 kHz and that is probably around the range of my most annoying tinnitus frequencies.
       
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    8. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Mine drops off completely around that range too but I only have "severe" loss there. But apart from an audiogram both, I can't hear it at all. I'm more worried about my low frequencies.

      Definitely get an extended audiogram.
       
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    9. Flyingsheep
      Sheepish

      Flyingsheep Member

      Location:
      Cleveland, OH
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Unless you're a rare case like me who tends to experience severely loud 15kHz ringing, despite the fact I can easily hear all the way up to about 18kHz without cranking the volume, and 19kHz has to be cranked to hear it. I don't think HF tinnitus is always related to HF hearing loss.
       
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    10. AtlasFainted

      AtlasFainted Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure + Viral Infection
      I don't doubt you, but I've read reports on Tinnitus Talk of people actually getting tinnitus/hearing damage from the audiograms themselves.

      My plan as of now is to hold off on the extended audiogram until FX-322 is released, in an effort to keep what little I have left from being obliterated while there is still nothing to bring it back before the support cells die off.

      In the meantime I'll consult with someone who conducts extended audiograms on a regular basis just to get a clearer idea of what my odds are of not having profound loss.
       
    11. DoNotGoGentle

      DoNotGoGentle Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/15 got worse 11/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Earbuds, inner ear infection NHL and high frequency loss
      Please explain how do they get FX-322 to repair hair cells in the right place where the damage is?

      Maybe I was thinking about this because the progenitor cells and support cells in those areas will be exposed. So they can turn them on.

      Thanks.
       
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    12. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I imagine it's similar to the intestines where cells signal to each other not to overgrow (would be neoplastic otherwise) so if there are healthy cells with the right signaling capabilities, it would not regrow there. Same way your skin cells only divide around a cut.
       
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    13. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Let us know what they say! If there is a way to do this at home, that would be good for many people.
       
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    14. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      What's suspicious to me is the stereo aspect, where it's a mono signal in the YouTube clip and yet my perception of it fades off in my left ear as the frequency goes up but not my right. I also know that certain sounds like birds chirping or rain are much harder to hear just through my left ear. When I got my regular audiogram the audiologist definitely confirmed my left ear is worse and I've sensed this ever since I acquired tinnitus back in 1992. What that means as far as regeneration goes I don't know. I probably have nothing to lose by opting for this treatment even if there's a dead-zone it can't work with. Some improvement is better than none.
       
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    15. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      It would be nice if Frequency Therapeutics could figure out how much hair cells are regenerated with each FX-322 dosage but I will assume this would be hard to measure.
       
    16. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Just a guess, but if it's "harder to hear" in your left ear but not damn near impossible, you probably aren't profound in that range.
       
    17. AtlasFainted

      AtlasFainted Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure + Viral Infection
      Pretty sure that's what they're trying to figure out during this trial. Not how many hair cells per se, but how much improvement comes with each additional dose (which in turn would indicate more hair cells).
       
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    18. AtlasFainted

      AtlasFainted Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure + Viral Infection
      Not to speak for him, but I think he's more worried about his tinnitus frequencies, not the lower ones where he can still perceive sound. Only guessing, because this is the case with me.

      After this 'flat epithelia' stuff, I went from feeling certain that I'll have my ears back to normal within 2-3 years to not being sure if that will be the case until 15-20 years from now. The frequencies I hear slightly less volume in aren't the ones I'm worried about. I'm 95% sure those will be restored just fine sooner than later...
       
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    19. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Toronto, Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise
      We would still have glass ears, and if we think we can just go clubbing again, we won't have any more progenitor cells to burn if we kill them off again.
       
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    20. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Well, I'm fudging a bit. There have been times when I wake up while sleeping on one ear and turn around and suddenly hear the bird song or other faint noises like rustling leaves or road noise from a nearby freeway. Then I turn the other way to sort of "test" my bad ear and I simply can't hear it, at least can't hear it over the din of my tinnitus in that ear. It's a pretty bad combination.

      The audiologist didn't even recommend a hearing aid for me. I was shocked, really. But the thing is, they're really only interested in speech parsing. They don't really care about upper frequency as long as you're still able to engage in conversation without saying "what" all the time, and frankly, I am saying what and mixing up what I think people are saying more than I used to.

      If I were only 20 years younger I'd feel more optimistic about recent developments but I feel like maybe physiologically I'm close to running out the clock on being able to benefit much from some of this stuff. I hope I'm wrong.
       
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    21. Jaysterk
      Blah

      Jaysterk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neomycin
      I was under the impression that progenitor cells were stimulated to regrow hairs, not burned off?

      And why would we still have glass ears?
       
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    22. sssing

      sssing Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      cold
      Yes, I somehow agree with @Flyingsheep that tinnitus frequency may not correspond to your hair cell loss location. But that your hearing dips on the audiogram corresponds to your cochlea region of damage because that was how they plotted the frequency map of the cochlea. They used people who had hearing losses after a certain frequency and studied their cochlear lesion location. So they used 27 donated human temporal bones with specific losses after 125Hz, 1000Hz, 2000Hz and so on and plotted what we know about the cochlear frequency map.
       
    23. HootOwl

      HootOwl Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explanation in About You
      It’s important to remember though that the severity of tinnitus isn’t necessarily related to the degree of hearing damage/loss you have, but instead to the degree of hyperactivity and central gain you have. Inflammation can also play a serious role. As a result, you can have very, very minor damage and yet still get very strong central gain.

      The question as to why some people have such severe hyperactivity as a response to decreased cochlear input is still hotly debated, but one of the current theories being investigated is the ability of the Kv7 ion channels to self regulate. Those who don’t develop hyperactivity even after significant hearing loss seem to have ion channels that re-equalize their voltage much easier or faster than those that do.

      Edit: I should clarify that this relates to tinnitus of cochlear origin. Tinnitus stemming from TMJ, TMI, autoimmune, etc. could be different. The studies regarding central gain/hyperactivity all involve hearing loss, via noise or ototoxicty.
       
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    24. Alex0o_o0
      Confused

      Alex0o_o0 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/10/2018 - 04/04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Whiplash/concussion - Sound trauma
      Would this also hold through for non-noise induced tinnitus (e.g. tinnitus due to TBI)?
       
    25. HootOwl

      HootOwl Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explanation in About You
      For tinnitus that isn’t of cochlear origin I’m not sure... I’m sorry, I would have to do more reading about that.
       
    26. Flyingsheep
      Sheepish

      Flyingsheep Member

      Location:
      Cleveland, OH
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Except that it's been a complete upside-down pyramid for me. I had very mild T for a good 6 months before it gradually got worse, and 2020 has been the year of greater worsening into the severe zone. Ironically the greatest worsening has started while I've been in the quietest environments possible. So if I have really minor damage but I have an extremely high central gain, why would it worsen substantially over time instead of improve slowly? Most people who have hearing damage start out with T at its worst, but mine started in the most mild form it could possibly be in.
       
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    27. HootOwl

      HootOwl Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explanation in About You
      My situation is similar to yours. Mine started out very mild as well, and then worsened considerably after very short acoustic exposures, no longer than a few seconds. There are actually many people who start out with mild tinnitus (quite a few on this forum) and then subsequent exposures causes it to worsen, or it worsens on its own.

      As to why some exposure results in mild hyperactivity, and some in extreme, even within the same individual and at different points in that person’s life? Why is it some people worsen and others get better - well, again it’s not well understood. Fusiform activity in the DCN plays a role, inflammation plays a role, the ion channels - might - play a role, and even predicative brains (look up Will Sedley) probably have an active component.

      The idea behind the Kv7 channel theory is it seeks to explain why some people have their tinnitus worsen or get better over time. The theory plays out like this: for some the channel voltage is able to recalibrate naturally, resulting in diminished tinnitus; in others it either can’t recalibrate or does so in the “opposite direction” so to speak, resulting in even more hyperactivity and worsened tinnitus. It gets complicated, and even I don’t fully understand all the papers to the degree that I would like. :/

      The question you have is unfortunately one that even the brightest of researchers are still struggling with.

      But ultimately, tbh it doesn’t matter much to me why I have hyperactivity as long as I can fix the damage at its source.
       
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    28. xyz

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      Isn't this quite normal that tinnitus gets worse over time? The noise damage adds up and tinnitus worsens and if one is unlucky hyperacusis and other shit adds itself to the game. If I would still have the tinnitus as it was ten years ago I probably wouldn't be here. Only strange that you had worsenings while being in a quiet environment.
       
    29. AtlasFainted

      AtlasFainted Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure + Viral Infection
      Progenitor cells are divided and then turned into a new haircell. So you don't end up with less progenitor cells than you had before recieving FX-322.

      There's no evidence at all to suggest we would have "glass ears". I'm going to take care of mine regardless, though.
       
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    30. AtlasFainted

      AtlasFainted Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure + Viral Infection
      I don't know the scientific reasons, but lots of people have their tinnitus go away after a certain period. My brother had his go away completely but it took almost 2 years. His was from acoustic trauma & he still listened to loud music during that 2 year period.

      It didn't come back even when he worked in a metal fabrication shop without ear protection. He still has hearing damage though.

      I think our ears are complicated enough to say every case is extremely unique. Just clicking around this forum will prove that.
       
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