"Hearing Distortion" "Recruitment" "Reactive Tinnitus"

How severe is your H Foncky?Like what can't you tolerate?Also how long have you had H?

 

Hi Foncky! At the worst of my H the TV or my Hi-Fi equipment hurt when they were set to minimum volume. When I tried to talk on a cellphone, I would put it on speaker, lowest volume, and hold the phone like as far away as I could stretch my arm. It was pretty bad.

Well, if I had to start sound therapy over again this is what I would do from day one:

- Choose music you like and that does not have big shifts in volume. For me string guitar or piano were ok on ears. Try to avoid music that has electronic sounds on it.

- Try to sleep to a soothing sound you like. Let the sound play on speakers all night. It can be white sound or other sounds or music you like.

- Ahh important thing: try to listen to the radio. An old analog radio. For me it was easier to cope with the radio than with sound compressed on mp3 for instance. The more compressed the sound was and the worst the speakers, the hardest it is to tolerate. Some of the worst sounds would come from music with a lot of electronics and heavily compressed played through a cellphone speaker.

 

Severe enough to force me to speak softly. Another example : I like hiking, alone in the mountains, where it's just silence. But the noise of my shoes on certain rocks is painful. I'm a mountain biker too, and I'm afraid the noise of the tyres will be too much...
12 years of mild H (like no concerts, no loud parties, no movies, etc, but no "everyday" H) and one year of torture.

 

I'm doing the phone speaker thing
I'll follow your advice. A good occasion to listen more to Mozart

 

Hi @SilverSpiral ,
I hope you get some improvement soon and your ears adapt to the sounds that hurt your ears .
I know it's a long road for you but try if you can build up the time around one sound at a time and build up on it.

Regarding head phones and ear phones and hearing aids and maskers.
My view.
I use all of them with no problem and earphones on the lowest setting with out beat music so all quite relaxing to listen to but never through the night only with my pillow speaker.
How ever when my ears this year went supper nuts I did on occasion sleep with my hearing aids in and sometimes maskers in as I was moving around to much in bed and had to keep moving my speaker.
I think if you have tinnitus to acoustic trauma then I would consider having a break from ear plugs and head phones but it's up to the indevidual and how they are coping emotionally and definatly not all night.
I don't see any problem playing white noise or pink noise set below your tinnitus through earphones if don't have the opportunity to get maskers but would only use them for a short break from tinnitus .
I have recently been taking Nortryptaline and my ears have been the best they have been for many years despite a heavy cold gunging up my ears and chest.
I have had times I have not heard my tinnitus when busy and minutes when I'm in a quiet room and my ears have gone totally quiet but not for long but hope and cherish minutes like that as it's been over 12 years since I could hear silence and hope I will again....lots of love glynis

 

Didn't know you liked Mozart Foncky, you can't go wrong there. How about Handel or Bach?

 

Classical music is great to train hearing. Music with a wide range of ups and downs, and many different pitches of sound helps to identify the specific frequencies that are giving problems, usually the ones that are perceived as annoying, or very amplified or distorted.

Mozart is a very good choice to train hearing, but be careful with the piece you choose. For instance, I would not recommend to listen to this aria unless you have good tolerance to very high-frequency sounds:

""Der Hölle Rache", is an aria sung by the Queen of the Night, a coloratura soprano part, in the second act of Mozart's opera The Magic Flute (Die Zauberflöte)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Hölle_Rache_kocht_in_meinem_Herzen

- This part is really complicated:

"The aria is renowned as a demanding piece to perform well. The aria's vocal range covers two octaves, from F4 to F6 and requires a very high tessitura.

Bauman has expressed particular admiration for one moment in the score. At the climax of the aria, the Queen sings the words "Hört, hört, hört!" solo, in alternation with loud chords from the orchestra. The first two syllables are sung to D and F, suggesting to the listener a third one on A, completing the D minor triad. But, as Bauman writes:

Mozart's masterstroke is the transformation he brought about by moving from the third degree to the flat sixth rather than to the fifth. ... No matter how often one hears this passage ... one is led by musical logic to expect, after D and F, A. But the Queen sings a terrifying B♭ instead.[1]

The effect is accompanied by unexpected Neapolitan harmony in the orchestra, with all the violins playing in unison high on the G string to intensify the sound."

 

Thank's for your reply, it is not certain sounds hurting my ears which is the primary issue, what I am discussing is that I hear additional tones in sound, which are louder than the source sound, and are not part of that sound. Masking is not ideal, as first of all some of my constant T tones are unmaskable, and second, noise sources show up additional tones, making it more annoying than my constant T. Sound in general is distorted and not pleasant to hear. I live near a busy street, so I constantly have a white noise source, and as such, I can constantly hear the sound distortion in my environment. I am not alone in this condition, for instance @VRZ78 has symptoms which he describes very similar to me.

Headphones are not something I'm interested in using, as like I said, sound sounds bad, any sort of noise shows up additional tones in addition to the constant tinnitus, and music is dissatisfying/disturbing to listen to when there are these annoying resonances in it at certain frequencies. I would also avoid headphones in general with fragile ears, as they do seem like a risk in comparison to speakers.

I would rather block out all audio entirely at this point (not that that's an option, just theoretically speaking) if it wasn't for the fact that then I couldn't hear speech, and would be severely impaired. And as hearing/music was my favourite thing in life, this is very painful reality to experience.

 

I don't know much about classical, just that I like Mozart and Tchaïkovsky a lot.
The big plus about them is that they didn't give me T.

Hendrix, Santana, Pink Floyd and others, whom I still love tremendously, did that

Thanks for the insights.

Mozart could actually help with T : https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-mozart-effect-in-patients-suffering-from-tinnitus.6628/

I'm gonna play this all day long on my portable speaker ! This + red noise at night ? My H should be afraid...

 

Damnn must be hard if you live next to a busy street I hope this will go away soon

 

I am not a classical connoisseur Foncky. Just like listening to certain pieces of classical and opera music. Try listening to some JS Bach or Handel. I like Amercian Jazz fusion too: Bob James, Lee Ritenour, David Sanborn and Michael Franks to name a few. Hendrix and Pink Floyd are a little way out there for me. Good musicians though..

 

Ive had tinnitus for 6 years got H in the summer and now past few weeks this. At certain frequencies or pitch I hear a bunch of tones from my tinnitus now in almost every outside sound apart from voices or music. It's a nightmare and the doctors do nothing. I started to research the nitrous suicide bag method I'll keep looking for new news on research and future treatment but I don't see myself going on past 5 years if it keeps getting worse

 

You are lucky in comparison to me if you don't hear it over music. Don't even know how that works, since music is usually fairly broad frequency range, so it should show up your hearing distortions, unless it's supper compressed stuff. Speech is pretty much the only thing that isn't annoyingly distorted for me, because speech is so sticatto in nature, and of a very limited frequency range. If it is speech recorded with a low quality microphone, or a telephone, then it adds plenty enough noise to it to show up distortions.

@Tom Soria Howd you get your T, and what caused it's increases?

 

I do get it with music too at certain frequencies but speech seems to be ok. I was addicted to an ototoxic drug also noise exposure and it runs in my family

 

Do you have hearing loss ?
I live next to a busy street too so yeah I hear the distortions in every car passing by which is really annoying.
It was better at some point but since last week they all came back I don't know why...

 

High frequency I tested myself yes, but audiology 8k test is "within normal limits" but I think we know how unrefined those tests are. Surely these symptoms are indicative of synaptopathy or "hidden hearing loss".

I think tinnitus caused by noise is pretty much always pointing to some form of hearing loss, let alone H and hearing distortion in addition.

 

[QUOTE="Surely these symptoms are indicative of synaptopathy or "hidden hearing loss".

I think tinnitus caused by noise is pretty much always pointing to some form of hearing loss, let alone H and hearing distortion in addition.[/QUOTE]

My feeling is in many cases of H there is some sort of damage, be it hidden hearing loss, a damage to the haircells, or loss or malfunctioning of nerve fibers. Over the years, there are certain sounds that I hear periodically as part of my daily grind; other people hear these sounds too and for them they are perceived as a bit loud (unnecessary loud) and bothersome. Well, over years I have only partially get used to these sounds, and they still give me pain sometimes depending on how I am feeling on the particular day. In my individual case, this shows that habituation is - at most - partial and that exactly the same sound can be felt in very different ways on different days. The sound I am referring to is very high-pitched and kind of loud, but not as loud as construction or things like that.

The problem with the theories of habituation or progressive exposure to sound is that they claim to be successful even if there are only partial recoveries, that occurr in many cases just by the passing of time.

 

At some of the worst moments of H I tried to listen to Pink Floyd. It was "Pulse", and even at minimum there are certain very high sounds (triangle, I think) that inmediately made me notice my H super loud. Because I love Pink Floyd, I tried to relax and listen to the whole disc at the minimum volume possible. Then, every day I would play the songs with the high sounds at minimum volume. In the end, I actually got used to the sounds in that album and was able to raise the volume.

Actually, when I found a sound in a music album I like that felt distorted or extremely amplified, I would play that sound over and over to try to get used to. The "trick" would be playing it very very low for many repetitions before increasing the volume.

In my experience the advantage of this rudimentary method, that worked for me, is that if you like the music you are hearing and you have heard it many times before you know that it cannot really damage you if the volume is very low. It is possible to control volume, to set it to minimun.. well, just wanted to share with you my experience with Pink Floyd!

Another band that I listened to later on, when my tolerance was better, was Goo Goo Dolls. I found one of their albums by chance, had never listened to them before. Well, the music has low sounds and feels like it has a lot of vibration and the voice of the lead singer is a much higher pitch. My ears liked the contrast for some reason, and the vibration of some songs, since is in a low register.

Try jazz too, it has dynamic range (saxo for instance) or you can choose a more plain composition, like piano, something with less ups and downs.[/QUOTE]

 

Reactive tinnitus comes in many shapes and sizes. @AnxiousJon was convinced the middle ear is involved, so am I. My reactivity isn't the sort where a sound takes over, but rather a thump followed by a magnified vibration (and magnified higher pitched t) perhaps associated with the permanent vibration that's already here with me in total silence. Perhaps it's the frequency of my vibration that makes my reactive tinnitus ''hyperacusis'', in that it's a vibration and lower frequencies are more easily felt not just heard like higher pitched noises.

 

By the way, I was practically chastised by anxiousjon for my repetitive questions to him in pm. And I'm amazed this isn't more commonly known, how the ''middle ear can mimic external sounds''. That's what I mean when I say distortion, of course it can mean other things to other people. One of the signs he pointed out that differentiated the veil of the palate from the middle ear muscles was that the muscles could mimic external sound's frequencies, not just make the ear twitch. So thumps would be more suspect of an entire ear twitching, while frequency mimesis would be indicative of a middle ear muscle in contact with the chain of ossicles. This he sort of got he said by talking with Harold Kim.

In a french forum called doctissimo, where one of the sideshows of the chat-h debates went to, a guy named kikounours, they're very clear about it when they say this is like an eyelid twitch, so not part of the eyesight. The secret in Jastreboff's sauce is to keep saying it's in the auditory system, when in truth it could just be like an eyelid twitch. I wonder if botox would be the differentiator between reactive tinnitus that's in the middle ear from the one that would be in the inner one.

 

I've long thought that Botox had enormous potential here as a diagnostic tool.

 

Ya know, when my bloodsugar is low from drinking sodapop(reactive hypoglycemia), it feels like my eyelid especially, and some other muscles in various parts of the body, are twitching in tandem/concert with my tensor tympani--the same constant rapid flutter rhythm.
Probably connected to nerve degeneration like in MS(less severe) or other degenerative nerve conditions. I believe really intense anxiety causes destruction of the nerves like this. Glad I got my anxiety treated before things got worse for me.

 

@SilverSpiral
I have this problem, I think it was there in the beginning mild, then disappeared and 3 days now is back worse. I don't know what to do. Why ??? I 'm starting to have a breakdown. Everything is going wrong.

 

That's exactly the same....

 

Botox would be the diagnostic key to it.

 

Sorry to hear you are also having similar problems. Mine has not improved, it worsened, along with getting SSNHL, though I recovered my thresholds from the SSNHL the hyperacusis is now worse, and hearing distortion now worse and asymmetrical (the ear that got affected by SSNHL now has worse distortion), I don't even monitor my constant tones, as they are the least invasive of my symptoms despite some of them being mainly unmaskable. On the other hand @3ri0w says his got better, so there is always hope I guess.

 

@SilverSpiral @Michael Leigh

Since talking to Michael, I connected to a couple of audiologists and a couple of audio tinnitus researchers. They seen to disagree on so many sound techniques. Of course it should be expected that some represent with financial rewards for certain treatments.

The tinnitus sound researchers both agreed with two professional links that I had posted several times saying not to take a complete audio exam immediately upon an onset or after having a noise induced spike with already having tinnitus.

I think that Michael Leigh advice is more solid that those others that I spoke to. There's are two things that I don't know much about when it comes to tinnitus. First being drug use. I need a very safe drug because I have major blood flow and circulation problems. I will need a stronger drug than Xanax, but I don't have a clue on which drug to use. The doctors and researchers that I know don't want me to not use drugs other than Xanax. Second, I don't know much about audio therapy, so Michael I will ask you a few more questions if you don't mind.

 

There are two kinds of Audiologist/Sound Therapist in Australia. One is the serious, University educated researcher and practitioner who works out in detail with you what you probably need, why you need it, and may help you to find it but doesn't set out to sell it to you. Then there are the short-course qualification hearing testers whose job for the private Audiology chain (run by a consortium of Doctors in many cases) involves trying to sell you the most expensive, high-profit devices whether they are right for you or not. If a practice makes a big deal of offering Neuromonics packages (for example), then they are the latter and should be avoided.

 

@Greg Sacramento

When tinnitus is mild or moderate most people are able to habituate and carry on with their life doing everything that they want to without too much of a problem. This situation can change drastically when the condition becomes loud and intrusive which may require professional help.

Tinnitus in the early stages can improve a lot without medical treatment and just left to time. This is particularly true with noise exposure and no underlying medical problem is responsible. Tests should still be done on a person’s auditory system at ENT. Tinnitus becomes a problem when a person is unable to habituate, usually under a year. It is then advised to seek professional help with a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist, who is trained in the treatment and management of tinnitus. Unless a person is able to do this, the condition can become chronic and more severe. If hyperacusis is present it makes the situation more problematic. As a result a person will experience spikes in the tinnitus due to the auditory system being hypersensitive.

Although medications for tinnitus can be helpful, they may not be the best option for a long-term solution. I think tinnnitus counselling is the way forward and advise anyone having difficultly habituating to pursue this route with a the health professionals that I’ve mentioned. Sound therapy can also be used and comes in various forms. My post: Can tinnitus-counselling help, covers this in more detail. https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/can-tinnitus-counselling-help.22366/

Michael

 

@Michael Leigh When I had the ear syringing seven years ago as my first onset of tinnitus (subjective) it messed with several things within my ears. I knew six months after the syringing that my cochlea in both ears did not contain enough fluids, therefore I can only use soft white noise therapy. After the onset, before knowing about my cochlea I used the Zen tone aides which messed my ears up more. I can't have hearing tests because of the lack of fluid in my both cochlea. I get permanent spikes.

I was able to totally habituate (using a program mentioned today and in other posts) ) with my first onset with 10/10 high buzzing tinnitus at 3.5 years. My hyperacusis suddenly left at 1.5 years.

Now after having a lower front dental implant three months ago, my mandibular incisive / alveolar canal was violated. This will cause extreme somatic tinnitus 100% of the time. So now I also have a 10/10 high pitched T & H along with my subjective T.

I went to college for 5 years and have three degrees. I have a pre med degree in medical psychology. I know every nerve, vein, artery, muscle and bone in the ear, jaw, face, month, neck and in the brain and what there functions are. I was accepted by all the best medical school, but did not attend because both my parents had serious illnesses. A neuro surgeon who is a friend has told me that I know more about tinnitus than all his ENT associates put together. So with my psychology medical knowledge, I don't think that tinnitus counseling can help me. I have a good neuro surgeon that will perform tests. Other times I get CD studies and self view their study results and scans, along with their findings.

I use this board as my counseling. There are many intelligent people here, such as you that do give me insights and thoughts - more than any ENT could. In fact, many here have more knowledge about tinnitus than many ENTs or ones that counsel.