Here Is How I Solved My Tinnitus — New Protocols and Supplements To Try

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by engineerLA, Oct 18, 2014.

    1. Cor

      Cor Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      And most ENTs in NL havent progressed beyond their education in the 60s.
       
    2. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      And waiting lists are way too long.
       
    3. Uncle_Rocker

      Uncle_Rocker Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      A Pantera concert in 2000
      EngineerLA, I bought the ear popper on Ebay for $117, I will be trying these things in stages. A question- I see from your writeup that a top notch ENT is required. I live 50 miles south of SF and I don't know who I can trust will actually look for inflamation of the eustachian tube. Do you have someone you trust that will look for all the correct things in Southern Cal? Maybe I'll take a day off work and drive down the night before... Or maybe that ENT knows a good one in the Bay Area up north.

      Thanks,
      -Michael
       
    4. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Hey Michael - there are definitely great ENTs in SF -- you should just go to UCSF and find the best person there. In LA I have a guy and he's good - Dr. Mani Zadeh. Any ENT can tell you if you have eustachian tube dysfunction however - and eustachian tube dysfunction is either inflammation or the opposite (it is too open). So that's not rocket science. You should have a hearing test and also have them test your ability to clear your eustachian tubes. In my case my hearing was perfect but they found my right eustachian tube was blocked - inflamed shut.

      Another thing - everyone - if when you move your jaw forward or clench your teeth, you find that your T changes tone or gets worse, that's a good indicator that your eustachian tube is involved -- because those movements move your eustachian tube.

      The fact is ENT's don't really understand most cases of T, and they admit it. They can understand it only when there is a physical trauma or nerve damage or hearing loss. They don't understand or really know how to treat the other forms of T.
       
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    5. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      I have also been researching acupuncture for T. I tried it in the past and didn't have much results, but I didn't do it for long enough to really have a conclusive answer. I have found some links to studies that showed good results (they are cited in other threads in this board on acupuncture and T).

      One thing I will say, that's worth really thinking about. In Chinese medicine the ear is the gateway to the kidney. If there are ear problems like T, that is basically an "alarm sound" that there is a problem in the kidney-liver-gallbladder system. It could be one or many of these out of balance. The kidney is the energy driver of the other organs. There could be an excess or a deficiency of kidney energy, and either way it can cause T. Usually an excess causes a high pitched sound and a lack causes a lower tone or roar kind of sound. Often these are associated with either fatigue, low immunity, fear, anxiety, or all of the above in one's constitution.

      It's definitely worth having a blood test and looking for higher than normal creatinine - which is an indicator of kidney health. I did, and it turns out it is borderline high. So I think there is kidney involvement in this kind of T.

      So how does one heal the kidney? Well first get diagnosed by a good acupuncturist to find out if it is really kidney, liver, gallbladder, and if it is an excess or deficiency. Next, try acupuncture and herbs, but only if you are willing to do it 3X a week for 6 months minimum. Otherwise it can't really have time to work. But other things from a western perspective could help: drink more water, eat less salt, get more sleep, don't eat or drink things that stress the kidneys and liver, and consider a cleanse or two (there are many liver, kidney and gallbladder cleanses out there).

      I have only just started to explore this so I don't know what works yet. But kidney involvement seems logical to consider.
       
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    6. Uncle_Rocker

      Uncle_Rocker Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      A Pantera concert in 2000
      Thanks ELA, sadly, my tone doesn't change when I move my jaw forward... at least noticeably. Thanks for the advice, I will see about looking up someone at UCSF. I figure that the ringing won't really change, its been around since 2000, but the whirring sound changes pitch like mad when I move at all. I think that's a good thing.

      Thanks for all your insight.

      Michael, a.k.a. "Uncle Rocker"
       
    7. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      URocker: Sorry to hear that. I don't think it can hurt to test some of my ideas. In any case you might be a good candidate for Chinese herbal medicine - the low whirring sound is I believe considered to be a sign of kidney deficiency in that system. You would need to see a good herbal practitioner -- someone very experienced. Best of luck.
       
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    8. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      One note folks - It was suggested that if you try my water method (7) in my original post you should use distilled water or at least boil the water and let it cool off until it is not too hot -- just to make sure the water is sterile. The water should be warm though -- warm and salty. That is generally healing and good for nasal passages as well.
       
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    9. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      If anyone tests the water method and finds that it helps please report back. It makes a huge difference for me. If it helps others then we might be onto something. The next question would then be WHY? Why does it work? What is it fixing or affecting? That could be a clue to the cause and maybe we can find an even more efficient way to target it.
       
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    10. SoulStation
      No Mood

      SoulStation Member Ambassador

      Location:
      New York
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise / Possible Medication
      Humans can't hear that high my friend. It would be a Mirical if you could hear past 19k
       
    11. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      It could be 20,000 cycles per second. I can't tell. It's very high pitched. But your point is well-taken.
       
    12. OddV
      Assassinator

      OddV Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      Mine is either 6900 kHz or 9900 kHz... I have a tough time making up my mind between the two.
       
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    13. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      I have been using the Agar 35 Supplement daily -- I wrote about it here: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tibetan-medicine-works-for-tinnitus-test-this-supplement.6623/

      I'm finding that it seems to help. Will report back after I test it some more. If anyone else wants to test this please join that thread and let us know. If this works it could indicate a possible underlying cause, and treatment, for some forms of T.

      I am also continuing with the protocols above. I do the #7 water protocol only when things are really bad and it does help. But I must say the Agar 35 is seeming to be useful.
       
    15. amandine

      amandine Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      july 2014
      @engineerLA

      So which is it that is helping - the agar 35 or the other stuff that you are doing? confusing
      Can you try just the agar 35 on its own please
      or can someone try the agar 35 on its own please
      i would try but sadly i feel that it may all be nonsense but if someone is willing to try agar 35 on its own and has a positive response, then I and many more will try it too....anything for some relief
       
    16. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      amandine - feel free to try agar 35 on its own. You will probably notice some relaxing effects quickly, but I can't promise it will solve your T immediately. I noticed benefits quickly, but in general all natural/herbal medicines work slowly. The general rule of thumb is at least 1 month for each year you have had the problem. But I find that it usually always takes at least 2 or 3 months of consistent use to see benefits. In any case, it really depends on what the underlying cause of your T is. I think there are several different kinds of T. It's worth a try, and in the worst-case, the Agar 35 is very pleasant and relaxing.
       
    17. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      By the way folks, I saw my ENT today and told him all about the water method (7). He was very interested and said that because it helps so rapidly in my case, it proves my T is caused by my eustachian tube inflammation. He said that he suspects there is a category of T that is caused by eustachian tube problems.

      He also advised to be careful with bringing too much water into the eustachian tube too often because there is at least some chance that it could lead to an ear infection (which is why you should sterile water - either boiled or distilled, with plenty of salt in it). I have not had any ear infections doing it however, so I'm not that worried about it.

      He also confirmed that anti-inflammatory supplements would be a good idea for this issue.

      I also asked him about new treatments such as balloonplasty and he said he was not convinced that it benefitted enough people, even though he had been trained in the procedure. He said some people had benefit and others had no benefit. So I think I'll wait before going that route.

      He mentioned that some people have a lot of benefit from have a tube inserted into the eustachian tube, while for others it made things temporarily worse. We agreed to wait a while and continue with my natural treatments to see if it will help. Also hopefully now that we are out of allergy season the inflammation may reduce further on its own.

      He did confirm that there was swelling and that he was certain I had eustachian tube dysfunction in my right ear, the one with the T.
       
    18. Christian_B
      No Mood

      Christian_B Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      07-2014
      A study also posted here on the forums shows that that caffeine has not affect on tinnitus.

      I think it's a placebo effect that appears because a lot of T. sufferers think the caffeine will increase their tinnitus and therefor they really believe that their T. is increased and stop drinking coffee. I thought this as well, but now i drink 2-4 cups of coffee everyday, and it doesn't make my T. rise to be honest, i felt that when i haven't heard about that study tho.
       
    19. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      BREAKTHROUGH...

      Hey everyone here is an update -- I have continued to experiment with "the water method" (method #7 in my original post in this thread) and I have made a breakthrough.

      I went off off of my allergy medicine for a few days and the result was that I had a bad tinnitus flare up over the weekend and it was so intense I was sure I was going to have to jump off a bridge to make it stop. (Once again, this is more evidence that my T is related to inflammation in the eustachian tube).

      I used the water method a few times and it helped quite a bit, as usual, but not enough to solve the problem, so that got me thinking...

      Instead of using warm salty water for method #7, what if we use norepinephrine (for example, the typical nasal and sinus decongestant spray you buy in the pharmacy)?

      I researched this and there actually was a woman selling some kind of home made solution for T that she invented which apparently uses this approach (I can't find the link to that at the moment, but she didn't seem very credible to me).

      In any case, there is no need to buy her product since Norepinephrine is available over the counter in every pharmacy. I decided to test this hypothesis myself.

      So to test this I did the following:

      1. First I did the water technique in #7 to open things up.

      2. Next, I used a nasal decongestant squeeze bottle -- the standard stuff you buy without a prescription at the pharmacy (NOT mentholated, just plain). Using the squeeze bottle form is best, because it produces a stream of liquid rather than just a slight mist.

      I used this exact product:
      http://www.cvs.com/shop/health-medi...care/cvs-fast-acting-nasal-spray-skuid-857132

      To use it, I did exactly what I do for the water method (#7):

      First, I tipped my head back, shot a stream of the stuff into my nose (instead of just a tiny bit of the stuff - an actual stream). This causes a stream not a mist of liquid to hit the back of the nose where it exits into the throat.

      Second, I simultaneously blocked the back of my throat with the back of the tongue so the liquid wouldn't just go right down my throat. This way I could catch the liquid at the back of the throat where it exits the back of the nose, and hold the liquid there instead of swallowing it accidentally.

      Third, I then tilted my head forward and down and to the right to cause the liquid to wash over the right eustachian tube entrance at the back of the jaw, and then at that moment did the valsalva to pop my ear.

      This caused the norepinephrine liquid to go into the right eustachian tube when the ear popped. There was the familiar "squeak" sound as the liquid entered the tube.

      I repeated the pop a few times (without adding any more spray - one squirt is enough, as long as you don't swallow it, which I don't think would be a good idea anyway) to really milk the liquid into the tube.

      Finally I spat out the remaining liquid into the sink (instead of swallowing it; don't swallow it!).

      It was slightly painful when it first went into the eustachian tube - perhaps because the norepinephrine spray is a little caustic.

      Then I went to bed for the night. My eustachian tube then ached a bit all night - it almost felt like a mild earache for a few hours. During that time the T seemed to increase a bit. This may have been due to the tube opening up a lot and perhaps even draining due to the norepinephrine action.

      But by the AM there was about a 90% reduction in T.

      Over the next 2 days the reduction in T continued. Today, 2 days later, there is a 100% reduction in T. No T at all. For the first time in maybe 6 months. None. Zero. Nada!!!

      Better yet, it seems to be a lasting solution so far.

      I think the norepinephrine causes a strong reduction in inflammation. Perhaps this opens the eustachian tube and enables it to really drain.

      Note that you cannot use this type of nasal spray too often -- only once every few weeks -- otherwise it can damage the tissues or you can desensitize.

      So if you have eustachian tube dysfunction, and you think it could be causing your T, give this a try and report back here. As I've said before, not all T is caused by eustachian tube dysfunction, but mine certainly has this issue as a major factor.

      I think this method could be a real winner!!!

      Now let's see if the effect lasts. I will report back on that.

      Curious to know if it helps anyone else.

      I am also continuing with the other supplements, Allegra, the Tibetan medicine, etc. to reduce ongoing inflammation and I recommend doing that as well, even if the Norepinephrine works for you.

      Norepinephrine is basically a way to jumpstart opening your eustachian tube, but you need to maintain that by making sure to keep the inflammation from coming back. And yeah, I went back on Allegra, just to make sure I am also reducing inflammation due to allergies.
       
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    20. Asian

      Asian Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 weeks
      Not to forget, high quality fish oil (omega 3) and vitamin B6 and most importantly B12 can also make a difference . B12 helps the nerve heal fast and fish oil reduces inflammation as we all know
       
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    21. Kaelon
      Wishful

      Kaelon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston, Mass.
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Muscle Spasms
      @engineerLA - First of all, thank you so much for your incredibly informative, thoughtful, and persistent message here. Even though I've only been suffering from persistent tinnitus for the past 6 days -- and it's nothing to compare with the 6 months of agony you must have gone through -- on a hunch, I followed your instructions and discovered that yes, my T is related to my Eustachian tubes. I was able to move my jaw, clench my jaw, etc., and each time change the amplification (volume) -- though not the pitch -- of the T that I am have in both of my ears. (My T is a persistent, steady, constant frequency, like that of an old CRT monitor.)

      Then, on a hunch, I went into a very hot, steam shower for about 20 minutes and let the hot water go into my ears and the steam surround me. When it cleared, I was completely T free for about 5 mins before it slowly, gradually faded back in.

      This has to be more than just coincidence.

      I've never used a neti pot before (item #7 in your experiments), so I doubt I could succeed at your advanced throat/vagal maneuvers to milk something into the Eustachian tubes. However, antihistamines and the like haven't done anything for me over the past week. I do notice, however, when I am in drier locations (like my basement, for instance) the T volume appears a bit louder. Or perhaps I'm just in more silence and notice it more, I don't know.

      What can I do to do proper follow-up with this Eustachian tubes theory? I'm looking into following your Agar-35 regimen as well for better nighttime sleep.

      Are you still T free, several days after your miracle?
       
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    22. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Hi - yes my T is much much better. I did the norepinephrine method 2 days in a row and it seems to have made a huge difference.

      I do notice that when my allergies kick in again -- for example if I miss a dose of my allergy medicine - my T starts to come back, although so far not nearly what it was before. The main thing is to not let the inflammation get out of control.

      I am certain now that my T is caused by allergies that inflame my eustachian tube. The fact that these methods eliminate my T entirely prove it.

      The methods I've found help to reduce inflammation in the eustachian tube area, and this is the key.

      Next step - I'm going to see an allergist and get a full allergy skin and blood workup. Then I'm going to do a series of immunotherapy allergy shots (or the new pills that do the same thing) to reduce my overall allergic response. I think this will ultimately solve the problem long term.

      In the meantime I'm continuing with the supplements above, and if necessary I will do the water and/or norepinephrine methods when needed. At least I have a way of solving the problem now! Huge relief.

      The 3 things that have made the most difference so far are:

      1. Technique #7, with the water.

      2. The norepinephrine technique (after doing the water technique)

      3. Staying really consistent with my allergy medicine (Allegra) and other anti-inflammatories.

      As for the other supplements, including the Tibetan medicine, I think they help as well - but not as strongly as the 3 steps above. The Tibetan medicine is great at night and works long term. The Herba-Plus Chinese supplement reduces overall allergic response. The Turmeric reduces inflammation.

      Please report back on your testing of any/all of these. Thanks and good luck everyone!
       
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    23. Rube
      Fine

      Rube Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud shit
      If I move my jaw back and forward the pitch and volume of my T goes up a bit. Does that happen to everyone with t or just that it may be caused by a Eustachian tube issue?
       
    24. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      I think that if moving your jaw changes the tone of your T, then that is a pretty good indicator that eustachian tube dysfunction (probably due to inflammation) is involved. It could also mean that TMJ (and night time tooth grinding) could be involved.
       
    25. Kaelon
      Wishful

      Kaelon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston, Mass.
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Muscle Spasms
      Great to hear that your T is much better, @engineerLA. I've been noticing subtle-changes in my T (now that I'm on Day 7), and here's the bottom line:

      • Left ear volume is definitely becoming louder than Right (or perhaps Right is becoming softer, not entirely sure).
      • Use of a humidifier at night, taking hot shower, and taking Allegra appear to help, suggesting this is a eustachian tube problem, as you hypothesized.
      • I've switched from using ear buds during my subway commute to instead Bose over-ear headphones; no noticeable change just yet, but it's only been a couple of days.
      A few new developments:
      • I had a Brain MRI on Saturday; no results yet. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow.
      • T is always quieter in the mornings, louder in the afternoons. Does that suggest its environmental?
      • I can change both pitch and volumes by moving jaw, force-yawning, etc. More hope for eustachian tube problem?
       
    26. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Kaelon, have you tried the water and norepinephrine techniques yet? They are the key to testing this hypothesis in my opinion.

      It does sound like you have a eustachian tube issue.
       
    27. Rube
      Fine

      Rube Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud shit
      Have you seen an ENT? they look in your nose to see if the opening of your tube is red or swollen. Although they can't actually see inside the tube they can see the opening in back of nose.
       
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    28. marqualler
      Nerdy

      marqualler Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Minneapolis, MN
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection / Mild Noise Induced Hearing Loss
      @engineerLA This sounds interesting. My T started after an ear infection and my CT showed parts of inflammation in the affected ear (left). I also have some inflammation on my eardrum which my ENT has suggested could be repaired via tympanoplasty. But I have always had Eustachian tube issues with flying, etc., and have also had eye issues that were primarily related to inflammation (they have stayed very quiet since I started taking Restasis eye drops, but inflammation in the eyelids is always something for me to watch.) I do use a neti pot but haven't used mine for a while, and I'm not sure what you mean by getting water to come out of your mouth using it, but I could give that a try. Oh and I definitely can "hear" the T more when I move my jaw back and forth and also when I yawn. I asked my ENT about that and she didn't know why that would be. I've never had any allergy problems before that I have seen a doctor about.

      I do think my inflammation is playing a role, especially since my right ear is totally fine and does not have inflammation on that side per my CT. Also playing a role has to be nerve damage per my audiogram in my left ear, but it isn't something that caused T before my ear infection. Ironically, my left ear I always thought was my "good" hearing ear before all of this started!
       
    29. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      engineerLA

      engineerLA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      marqualler: The reason you need to get the water to come out of your mouth with the neti pot or sinus irrigator is that means it goes past the opening of the eustachian tube on it's way from the back of the nose. Otherwise, if you just get the water to go in one nostril and out the other it doesn't go past the eustachian tube opening, and so you can't milk it into the tube when you pop your ear. With norepinephrine, it would not be a good idea to use so much fluid, so instead there you capture the fluid in the back of the throat and hold it there while you rotate your head appropriately to cause it to wash over the eustachian tube entrance (without swallowing it) and then you do the valsalva to pop your ears at the same time, causing it to go into the tube.

      It sounds like you have a combination of things going on, but certain allergic inflammation is one of them since you need to use anti-inflammatory / steroid eyedrops. Definitely a cause.
       
    30. Kaelon
      Wishful

      Kaelon Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston, Mass.
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Muscle Spasms
      Thanks @Rube - I haven't seen an ENT yet. I have an appointment next Tuesday at Mass Eye & Ear with a leading specialist.

      I've been carefully retracting my steps over the past 7 weeks, when many of my health problems started (I describe them briefly in my Introduction thread) -- essentially, epigastric distress with suspected G.I.-issues -- and when my T started 7 days ago, I remember having an especially bad night's sleep (presumably caused by acid reflux, even though I'm on Omeprazole and Pepcid combinations with Sucralfate). I came across this thread here in TinnitusTalk discussing the link between Acid Reflux and T, and I am starting to seriously wonder whether this is the cause of these issues. And if it is, whether there's any hope for treating or curing my T.

      @engineerLA

       

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