Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hopeful, Sep 6, 2013.

    1. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      what?
       
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    2. Ninix

      Ninix Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sound
      Hello
      Sorry for my poor skills in this domain but I've just listened Neuromod video and the CEO said that they have animal model to determine if tinnitus are dicreased or not
      My question is why nobody use this model in order to know if Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration fix or not Tinnitus (due to sound traumatic) !
       
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    3. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      I think this is a good question, will answer from as best I can, please take with a pinch of salt.

      In this case a model describes a series of logical steps that would result in observed behavior. A model can be very abstract and is generally validated bit by bit.

      Your mistake in logic is thinking of a model like a simulation, that would allow our understanding of'whatifs' to be expanded. We do not have have advanced models that have been rigorously validated. So we don't have enough confidence in our models to simulate t to any degree of benefit.
       
    4. Enclave

      Enclave Member

      Location:
      Meh
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      Meh
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meh
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    5. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      So, I read this and was not optimistic :( . It seemed to advocate a multi-strategy approach, and implied that the current strategies would not work in isolation. Do any of the big names in hearing regeneration utilise such a multi-payload system?
       
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    6. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      Sorry - I have read it in full now. So yes FX-322 is 'combinational'. If this is the only such example then my hopes are still impacted - a one horse race is less reassuring.
       
    7. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      They've shown hearing improvement in animal models and are going to present trial data in 10 weeks showing improvement in humans. It works. Have hope.
       
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    8. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      It's maybe worse than that. I think what they are saying is that in addition to what Frequency Therapeutics is doing you might need to look at gene manipulation (e.g., CRISPR/CAS9). There's some commentary on it at https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blogs (2nd article down at the moment).
       
    9. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      It would be nice to see some long term improvement monitoring in the next study (or this one!)
       
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    10. Enclave

      Enclave Member

      Location:
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      Meh
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meh
      “There has been some success in hair cell regeneration following Wnt and Notch modulation in the mature mammalian cochlea.34,52 However, it is important to note that many of these newly generated hair cells show limited survival and do not appear to fully differentiate, lacking mature stereocilia, and they may fail to form proper synaptic connections with auditory neurons.75”

      In my opinion the conclusion falls short in a big way. Citation 75 is a study from 2014... several years prior to the McLean 2017 paper and doesn’t utilize the same molecular approach, so essentially they’re utilizing an outdated publication to debunk FX-322. Also interesting, this paper only cites FTX’s Phase 1a study, and no mention of their Phase 1b study where they specifically state they saw hearing improvement in their test subjects.
       
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    11. Enclave

      Enclave Member

      Location:
      Meh
      Tinnitus Since:
      Meh
      Cause of Tinnitus:
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      The presentation Frequency is doing in September is only going to be 5min long.

      That’s a less than inspirational time slot.
       
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    12. Daniel Lion
      Ape-like

      Daniel Lion Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      SE Asia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma, hearing loss
      You're clever...

      I read the same text and didn’t catch what you did. Mind you I usually need to read these a few times as I have no scientific background. A degree in fine arts, sculpture, doesn’t really set me up for notch modulation... I have learned a lot and appreciate your post.

      Anything that gives me a glimmer of optimism is nice.... thanks for the post.

      And yes five minutes? The waiting game....gotta stay distracted with this illness
       
    13. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      Part of me agrees... but what do we expect them to say and how long do we think it will take them to say it? Assumign that everyone present is familiar with their work...
      8 people had the drug.
      No side effects observed (fingers crossed).
      An average of X db improvement was observed at XKhz.
      An average of X db improvement was observed at XKhz.
      We will be running phase 2b, that will last X on 20XY for months.
      I hope :(
       
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    14. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      True. But aren't like five of them going to be there?
       
    15. Pero1234

      Pero1234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      home theatre system + high pressure washer
      Person 1: We
      Person 2: cured
      Person 3: hearing loss!
      Person 4: Any
      Person 5: questions?

      4 mins remaining...

      ;-)
       
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    16. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      16 had the drug, 8 had placebo. Right?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    17. tarmaced
      Wtf

      tarmaced Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004 (mild) 2018 (not so mild)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infections, compounded by noise exposure
      As I remember it was 8 8. Haven't checked today am probably wrong... :p
       
    18. grate_biff
      Alone

      grate_biff Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma, benzo/mirtazapine withdrawal, or combo!
      No, there was 24, 8 low dose, 8 high dose and 8 placebo.
      They ended up with 23, I do not know which group he/she was in.
       
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    19. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
    20. Don Tinny

      Don Tinny Member

      Location:
      Argentina
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017 (worsening)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert with ear plugs
      So it's something very very difficult to repair. And you can ruin your ears with some loud Heavy Metal songs, it's that easy. Just thinking about it...
       
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    21. Enclave

      Enclave Member

      Location:
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      Tinnitus Since:
      Meh
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meh
      Audion is REGAIN
       
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    22. PolishSoldier87
      Moonlighting

      PolishSoldier87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acustic trauma, neuro-lyme/rx co-op toxins
      Yes. Brain toxicity can improve for many months/years. You don't know if you have dead hair cells. The best way to know that is to do high frequency OAE test up to 20 kHz. It tests if your hair cells physically exist. The same damage to high frequency was made to one member of Tinnitus Talk who have Lyme's disease and took a herb that hit the Lyme and probably toxins damaged something. That herb was otoprotective itself so there wasn't a chance for some kind ototoxicity. I had also Lyme. I took amoxicillin and further doxycycline. Both of them damaged my hearing some way but it's more probable that it hit Lyme and I had neurolyme so my brain was a battlefield and many toxins was produced that damaged something in the brainstem. Brainstem has to have balanced conditions and if there are some complications, one or more things are out of tune, it can affect others. For example tinnitus --> visual snow.

      For now I recommend for you to take an extract from Turmeric and Curcumin (with Piperine, which increases bioavilability of curcumin by some thousand percent - confirmed by researchers).

      "A bioactive compound found in turmeric promotes stem cell proliferation and differentiation in the brain, reveals new research published today in the open access journal Stem Cell Research & Therapy. .(...)
      The other compound is curcumin, which is well known for its anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective properties."

      https://www.biomedcentral.com/about/press-centre/science-press-releases/26-sep-2014

      I know that this wont regaim your HC becouse its impossible for now (by the way curcumin blocks extraction of Atoh1 moreover) but it can silent your brainstem and make it work more normally. I had not get back my 12+khz in my one ear (thats the damage) but my hearing is much much improved all range except that and tinnitus cured by 95 percent. Sometimes 99 percent.
       

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      Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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    23. PolishSoldier87
      Moonlighting

      PolishSoldier87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acustic trauma, neuro-lyme/rx co-op toxins
      Although curcumin is otoprotective, do not take curcumin after acute trauma because it blocks extraction of Atoh1 and can stop spontaneous regeneration of hearing. Extraction of Atoh1 is a main condition during self healing of the hearing that happen during the first weeks after trauma. It's very weak and of course only to some level but it exists.

      nhhtw61-png-png-png.png
       
    24. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I believe I have both brainstem and cochlear damage. I have moderately severe hearing loss in both ears at 12000hz but I also have really bizarre distortions at all frequencies (I can listen to a song and whole parts/instruments/notes/cords are missing unless I isolate them, difficulty in localizing sounds and inability to listen to music.

      I found studied showing aminoglycosides can damage/deform the kv3.1 ion channels in the brain stem *and* hair cells in cochlea. I believe Macrolides have affected me the same way. I'm now hoping for Autifony's kv3.1 drug, so I can maybe try it off label and Frequency's drug for hair cells.

      Thanks so much for writing all of that out. I do take tumeric but not a huge amount as I'm an abnormal MAO-B gene homozygote and MAO-A heterozygote and it can have a lot if effects. I'd maybe chance it if i could hear music again, though.

      I know neurons can sometimes heal with time but I'm not sure about synaptic ion channel deformations. Anyone know more?
       
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    25. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Not sure about natural healing but Dr. Tzounopoulos of the University of Pittsburgh is also working on a potassium ion modulator they are calling RL-81 funded by the DoD. It's a remake of trobalt, being redesigned peimarily for the treatment of tinnitus.
       
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    26. Tinniger

      Tinniger Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      increasingly uncertain, maybe noise, maybe somatic ?
      Inner Ear Hair Cell Damage — Maybe We Can Know More

      I would be glad to know, whether my tinnitus is due to inner ear cell damage, - or not.
      If not, I don't need any hair cell regeneration.... ;)

      In my opinion, therapies for tinnitus are always being considered without having made an exact diagnosis. Tinnitus is not a diagnosis, but a symptom.
       
    27. JohnK
      Busy

      JohnK Member

      Location:
      London
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/26/2015 (habituated) 5/13/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Doxycycline (2015) Otimize ear drops [neomycin] (2019)
      I find it very improbable that something would cause neurological damage but only in one specific region of the brain that's really far from the ears.
       
    28. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15547932/

      Why not? It happens with aminoglycoside antibiotics sometimes (see link above). This happens when drugs only bind to and deform one type of potassium ion channel (in this case, KV3.1 channels--which have a lot to do with the dynamic quality of sound and aren't found in mass elsewhere).
       
      Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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    29. JohnK
      Busy

      JohnK Member

      Location:
      London
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/26/2015 (habituated) 5/13/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Doxycycline (2015) Otimize ear drops [neomycin] (2019)
      Great video! Interestingly he said "in 10 years" and this was 2012. Would we still be on track for the early 2020s?
       
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    30. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Frequency Therapeutics might make that happen.
       
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