Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hopeful, Sep 6, 2013.

    1. canteven

      canteven Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
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    2. Nobody19

      Nobody19 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Clubbing
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    3. canteven

      canteven Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/01/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Thoughts anyone? I would love to see what other people think... Do you think they are close to curing hearing loss?
       
    4. Coleoptere
      Alone

      Coleoptere Member

      Location:
      The Hague
      Tinnitus Since:
      2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bell's Palsy, hearing loss
      There is only one way to answer your question and that is: start the trials ASAP!
       
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    5. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      I understand we all want our positive thoughts to be reaffirmed but who cares what a bunch of lay people on here think.
       
    6. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Hearing Health Hour Webinar | The Present and...


      Was this talk posted already? Couple of interesting points, particularly in the Q&A.
       
    7. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      From the Q&A...

      "It's extremely rare to have tinnitus w/o hearing loss." - Dr. Hertzano
       
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    8. star-affinity
      Wishful

      star-affinity Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1993, increase in 2020, then new in 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unsure about the first. Too many beers? Music during sleep.
      But not too good news for tinnitus sufferers (in the Q&A) as we again hear the claim that fixing the hearing loss likely won't help the tinnitus and that it's more of a brain thing once the damage is done and not so much about the inner ear. This again makes me confused, because if the tinnitus and hearing loss was triggered by damage to the inner ear (hair cells, nerve cells and what not) if restoring those, why isn't it likely that this would also help to take away the tinnitus?
       
    9. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      I think it’s a matter of scientists observing the development of tinnitus/hearing loss in the brain and cochlea in a one-way direction. The cochlea continues to degrade, and the brain adjusts accordingly. They have no data on what happens when the cochlea regenerates and the brain starts getting signals from new cells that it hasn’t received anything from in potentially years. So, nobody wants to speculate.
       
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    10. Foamearplugssuck
      Angry

      Foamearplugssuck Member

      Location:
      new dorp new york
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/26/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Doing concert photography
      My pure speculation is that fixing the hearing loss is part of the solution to treating noise-induced tinnitus. As for the brain, Dirk de Ridder talked about this in his Tinnitus Talk Podcast interview, but the idea is that tinnitus "settles" so that your sympathetic nervous system isn't going all the time which helps conserve energy and makes your brain's job a bit easier. But then that creates deeper neural connections that integrate into your self-perceptual network. So, there may be a need for another layer of treatment in order to dissolve those connections. However, that is just a theoretical model, so we can't know for sure. There is also this Ted Talk which expands on the idea of tinnitus being more of a brain problem.

      Even though noise-induced tinnitus is caused by damage to the inner ear, the ringing itself comes from your brain. Plenty of people are exposed to loud noises and don't develop tinnitus, even though they have hearing loss. The difference is in how our brains process the sound. I think that adds to the argument that further neurological treatment is needed to cure/treat tinnitus.
       
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    11. star-affinity
      Wishful

      star-affinity Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1993, increase in 2020, then new in 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unsure about the first. Too many beers? Music during sleep.
      At the same time the perception of sound is always generated in the brain, right? Of course based on the input from the inner ear. And the ear always listen even if our brain cancels out some of the input (especially when sleeping) and can partially "choose" what to feed to the consciousness.

      It also seems that some with tinnitus and hearing loss gets help from a hearing aid that increases the input to the ear on those lost frequencies. I will in fact see if that helps me in a couple of weeks when I will try out some devices – I have some hearing-loss (about 20 dB) in the 6700-7900 Hz range and I think that's where my tinnitus is. But I remember Dirk saying it's only 1 in 5 that gets lower tinnitus from this. :(

      What an insane condition – getting some hearing loss and a debilitating tinnitus sound. :( We sure should be warning people that this definitely isn't something they want to risk getting onto themselves.

      Anyway, I feel I digress. Sorry.
       
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    12. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      Yes, I'm in that position. My tinnitus and hearing loss has got worse as the years progressed.

      But whereas it appears to be true that the synapses or inner/outer hair cells appear to take the first "hit", it could very well be that the damage progresses internally somehow, somewhere.

      But even if healing the cochlea managed to lesson the symptoms, then that would be a great gain to the community.
       
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    13. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      The fact that some people's tinnitus goes away entirely when they put in hearing aids, and it comes back when they take them out, is all the answer I need.
       
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    14. star-affinity
      Wishful

      star-affinity Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1993, increase in 2020, then new in 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unsure about the first. Too many beers? Music during sleep.
      I so want to try that! I got some hearing loss around 600-800 Hz in conjunction with my high pitch tinnitus onset six months ago. Longing to know how my tinnitus will react to a hearing aid that boosts the input of those frequencies a little.
      That's a very good point. Maybe that's a good reason to use a hearing aid if one has some hearing loss – so the brain won't ”leave behind” the pathway that those frequencies used to have in the brain? If that even happens... But would be sad if that was the reason for not getting any results after a future treatment that would get the cochlea to regenerate.
       
    15. antonio77

      antonio77 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Then the problem would have been solved. So much stupidity makes me sick. Why research tinnitus if hearing aids already exist that eliminate it?
       
    16. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Because it doesn't work for everyone. The fact is, it does work for some. That means claiming fixing hearing doesn't solve tinnitus is a falsehood. Sorry about your stupidity, hope you feel better soon.
       
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    17. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Cochlear implants eliminate tinnitus in a lot of people too.
       
    18. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      So does earwax removal in someone who has a bad clog.

      No it is not a cure all. My point is nobody can make the blanket statement that it's only in the brain and therefore, it doesn't respond to hearing improvements. That is false.
       
    19. antonio77

      antonio77 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      False, it is not investigated for those people who have tinnitus because the hearing aid has not ended tinnitus, it is investigated because there is nothing that ends tinnitus.

      If hearing aids were used to end tinnitus, even only 10% of people, all doctors would prescribe hearing aids for those affected by tinnitus. On the other hand, you must have hearing loss to wear hearing aids, which means having tinnitus does not imply hearing loss.

      The point is that it doesn't make sense either because it is not true that hearing aids cure tinnitus in those who have tinnitus due to hearing loss.

      I challenge you to show me a single study confirming that hearing aids cure tinnitus, a single serious study confirming that people with tinnitus who wear hearing aids stop hearing tinnitus. That is false, only unverified anecdotal cases are counted.
       
    20. DimLeb

      DimLeb Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Idiopathic Cochleopathy or Maybe Loud Music
      @antonio77, if hearing aids "cured" tinnitus, then sound therapy would too. It's not really rocket science to go listen to frequencies that you have hearing loss at louder than normal volumes (using Equalizers etc). The moment you take off the aids, tinnitus comes back unaffected.

      As I see it, hearing aids just make your hearing better, make you notice more external sounds and they kind of mask tinnitus, nothing more nothing less. For me that I have slight (normal) hearing loss (-10 dB at most), sounds almost "suppress" tinnitus, but in silence or with earplugs, it seems to expand.

      For a problem such as tinnitus, we need a much stronger fix than just raising the volume of external sounds (which hearing aids essentially do). Brain plasticity in this regard can't do shit.
       
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    21. JohnK
      Busy

      JohnK Member

      Location:
      SF Bay Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/26/2015 (habituated) 5/13/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Doxycycline (2015) Otimize ear drops [neomycin] (2019)
      Brain plasticity delivers habituation, which is phenomenal
       
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    22. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      There's somebody in the success stories category claiming it's fully gone when wearing hearing aids and returns when taking them out. Not sure why they'd lie. I'm not making a blanket statement that it cures everyone - just that it's not unheard of - which in turn indicates tinnitus is not solely a brain problem, ability to hear effects tinnitus.

      Here's an easy study. Put in ear plugs and wear them about 10-15 minutes. Really plug your ears good with foam plugs or muffs. Your tinnitus will be much louder. Take them off. It will be immediately quieter or after a few minutes return to base line. I have to wear them every day because I use power tools at work. That's an every day occurrence for me. Annoying at first but once you start focusing on work it's not too bad.

      The point is that hearing ability is directly correlated. Sure, some lose hearing and no tinnitus but the vast majority of tinnitus sufferers have hearing loss.
       
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    23. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      Researchers are also able to have patients without tinnitus, IE: “normal/ healthy hearing” experience tinnitus by having them sit in an Anechoic Chamber for a short period of time. Their brains haven’t changed, the only difference is that sound input has been dramatically reduced. When sound input returns because they left the chamber, so does the tinnitus.
       
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    24. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      I think we know what you meant to say.
       
    25. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      The question is whether chronic tinnitus is more sticky. Lots of people get a bit of ringing after a concert or other loud noise but usually it goes away, like the person that leaves a sensory deprivation chamber.

      Something got broken in me the night of my incident, I had a notch 15-20 dB below my normal aging hearing profile at 6 kHz for 4-6 months. Somehow miraculously that notch recovered but the tinnitus never went away, not even a little. So I left the sensory deprivation chamber but the tinnitus didn’t go away.
       
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    26. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      Perhaps my example wasn’t the best. When in an anechoic chamber, the entire hearing system is deprived of sound, which leads to downstream deprivation in the brain. Leading to tinnitus, although temporarily in the normal hearing person.

      In the event where damage to the ear occurs, it’s not exactly easy to point to what part of the auditory system is damaged leading to a patient experiencing tinnitus.

      The tests used today that are common in the clinical setting aren’t sensitive or specific enough to rule out or include specific types of inner ear components performing at or below normal.

      So, in your example where you seem to reference a recovery on the Standard Audiogram, yet still have tinnitus. Where, it’s known that audiograms tend to indicate a narrow band of outer hair cell performance. It seems conclusive that perhaps that the OHC in that audiogram band recovered. Although perhaps OHC that are in the high frequency range, between audiogram bands, IHC or synapses are what did not recover?

      Without specific tests to conclusively rule out these key parts of the hearing system, how can we simply jump downstream and point to the brain?
       
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    27. Juan

      Juan Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several causes
      Out of curiosity... has your tinnitus or your hearing worsened due to using power tools wearing hearing protection?
       
    28. antonio77

      antonio77 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Tinnitus lasting a few minutes has nothing to do with tinnitus lasting several days, weeks or months. Everyone has had tinnitus for a few seconds or minutes that goes away.

      Let's imagine that 100% of people who use hearing aids eliminate their tinnitus.

      How many of this forum use hearing aids, that is, how many have hearing loss for which the hearing aid is indicated and how many do not?

      I bet the vast majority do not need a hearing aid and it will never be prescribed, so what good is it? Do you have to wait - and maybe it will never happen - to lose some hearing before you can use a hearing aid?
       
    29. TinkleTinkleArgh

      TinkleTinkleArgh Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4/15
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      covid-19 vaccine
      What about hyperacusis?
       
    30. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      There have been claims from some saying they'd eliminated hyperacusis also with the implant.
       
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