Kevin Hogan Recovered After 2.5 Years

joe -
That thread written by mock turtle about Clonezapam is great. He and I are about the same age. Thanks for bringing that thread to my attention.

click -
You had a strong reaction to a benzo. There are actually two types of medicines we are talking about here: benzo's and SSRI's, which are not to be confused. Psychiatry 101: When someone with depression sees a phychiatrist, typically they prescribe an anti-anxiety drug (benzo) which acts quickly plus an SSRI which takes about one week to a month to build-up seratonin levels and "kick in". Once the SSRI become effective, the patient stops taking the anti-anxiety medications. (About 10 years ago, I went through horrible depression, after burning myself out writting a software application night and day.)

Fish-
I've had "T" about 9 months. Since the medical community hasn't provided me with a definite cure, except for maskers, I'm looking for answers with the rest of you. During this time, I've tried a whole lot of stuff. This week I'm trying Clonezapam. Call it "Experiment No. 361".

I'm not planning to buy Kevin Hogan's book, just thinking about his ideas. The things that Kevin Hogan is talking about can only be obtained from doctors. Anyone who tries his program will need to work closely with a doctor, simply to get the meds.

 

Thanks Karl. I have to admit I know very little about any of these drugs (they all scare me because even multi vitamins give me a foggy head). Does that mean that Clonezapam is a benzo or a SSRI then?

 

click -
Glad that I can explain this subject.

Clonezapam is a "benzo" - meaning that its chemistry uses a benzene molecule. Xanax is also a benzo.

"SSRI" stands for "Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor". These drugs tend to prevent the body from using up seratonin (thus the name "inhibitor"). The intestines can use up a lot of seratonin. SSRI's principally act on the intestines, preventing them from absorbing seratonin. (As a result, a person taking an SSRI may become constipated).

"Seratonin" is one of several neuro-transmitters in the brain. The theory is, many people with depression have a seratonin deficiency. So, by taking an SSRI, the body will begin to accumulate seratonin, which reaches the brain, making the person feel good again. Usually the brain thrives on this type of stuff; however, for some people they have a bad reaction.

There are other types of anti-depressants that work on the other neuro-transmitters.

In the context of this discussion, both benzos and SSRI's seem to have a positive effect on reducing tinnitus - or reducing the anxiety of tinnitus. This makes sense, because tinnitus, although it begins in the ear, is a condition of the brain effecting the central auditory pathway in the brain. In a nutshell: Medicines for depression/anxiety seem to also help tinnitus.

 

Click,

Clonezapam, also known as Rivotril here in the UK, is a Benzo,

Back in the 60's a " Mothers Little Helper Tablet " was formed it was Valium, (diazepam), thousands of women popped them, there wasnt much hype for about 10 years, Roche the maker made billions, the biggest problem was addiction, bit like eating Pringles once you pop there so good you cant stop!!! lol,

In all honesty and more seriously to the point, if your considering taking any Benzo's or SSRI consult your G.P first..
and watch them prescribe you amitriptyline instead

 

Karl, that was well explained,

You know I would like to take Clonzepam for 3 months, just so I could habituate my T, like, Mock Turtle, but the Ironic thing is this I can go to my GP and he will prescribe me 2 valium tabs if I tell him I am taking a flight, but soon as I ask him for Rivotril for anxiety he says it wont work as well as amitriptyline?? I think UK doctors get some kick back $ on prescribing amitriptyline

 

joe -
I think you need to see another doctor, or show him the ATA's study. (I will post an image in one minute). My GP wasn't familiar with clonezapam. I was initially prescribed clonezapam by a neurologist because I was having sleeping problems.

erik -
Very interesting about amitriptyline. My ENT says that's one of the best. I had trouble taking Paxil. It was both good and bad. Was very hard to get off of. John Lennon's "Cold Turkey" comes to mind.

 

joe -
Show this ATA study to your doctor:

 

Karl,

I don't think that's quite right about seratonin. It's too large to cross the blood brain barrier, and so is manufactured entirely in the brain (that part that has the neurological effect anyway). So, even if we can accumulate it in our bodies, it will never reach our brains; it's too big.

One of the precursors to seratonin is tryptophan, which can cross into the brain. This is an amino acid that we get from protein.

My understanding is that when our neurons fire, they emit seratonin to effect the signal, and then suck it back up again (re-uptake). An SSRI reduces the amount of sucking back up (re-uptake inhibition), leaving us with an excess.

I read a wonderful book about how foods can affect our brain chemistry, and from that I started wondering if I was actually short of Vitamin-B (also required in the manufacture of seratonin). Since then I've taken supplements along with the fluoxetine.

DD

 

Thanks Karl, I'll approach him with the article.
there's something I been working on for a while that ticks all the boxes and if my theory is correct it could also lower tinnitus I want to share with you all, and I really think you should include it when you send your letter to the ATA for some testing http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18072812

 

DD -
You may be correct. But the majority of the human body's serotonin is in the intestines. Here's something from Wikipedia:

"Approximately 90% of the human body's total serotonin is located in the enterochromaffin cells in the alimentary canal (gut) , where it is used to regulate intestinal movements.[6][7] The remainder is synthesized in serotonergic neurons of the CNS, where it has various functions. These include the regulation of mood, appetite, and sleep. Serotonin also has some cognitive functions, including memory and learning. Modulation of serotonin at synapses is thought to be a major action of several classes of pharmacological antidepressants."

I seem to recall that there is a 5-HT cycle (?) where tryptophan is involved. There is an over-the-counter drug called 5HTP that will increase serotonin.

 

Wasn't it an excessive production of glutamate that's been shown to cause tinnitus? Also AM-101, a drug tested for T is based on ketamine.

Do you have some more info about those new anti-depressants erik? This is a nice find!

 

erik -
Very interesting, excellent information. Now we're back to "GABA", which I know nothin' about! Man, I think we're really getting somewhere on this thread!

I'm not sure how this line of thought is quite fitting in with the "phantom limb syndrome" theory, in which the noise we perceive is due to damage of the affervent/effervent nerve circuit in the inner ear.

 

Karl, can you give us all an update, on how your getting on with Clonzepam? Any improvements ? Sideffects ?

 

Hi,

I've been reading two of the threads in this forum over the last two days and wish I had found this place sooner. There has been some great information posted here.

I'd like to relate my story....
I got tinnitus 11 weeks ago from a night out. I watched a rock band in a local pub and the volume was way, way too loud. Just a horrible noise with no melody to it because it was too loud. I also realised half-way through that I had been standing right at the side of a speaker on my left. The next morning the ringing was there in my left ear and it has not gone away. It is constant. I have been devastated and had a panic attack in the second week after I realised this was it, I have tinnitus. The fact it was from my own stupidity (not moving away because I'd had too much to drink) makes it even harder to bear. Then two weeks ago I went to the theatre to see The Phantom of The Opera, the tickets had been bought way back in January. I thought it would be ok as the orchestra isnt loud, not the loud that can cause hearing loss anyway, and I have been to this theatre loads in the past and never had even 'disco tinnitus' from it. But after that night the volume of my tinnitus has now doubled and I have it a little in the other ear also. The theatre seeems to have done more damage than the original night out. The pitch of the ringing has changed and there are now more tones in it and it moves around sort of like its trying to tune itself in, like a radio. I can now hear it in the office all day at work, which before going to the theatre I couldnt. I feel so desperate.

I have a question for Joe: Did you finish all the HBO sessions and did the improvement stay at 25%?

I am right on the edge of the time that they say HBO can help, that's for the original damage anyway. But maybe I am still in time to help the latest damage I have done to myself with the theatre trip 2 weeks ago.

I would be very difficult for me to do the HBO treatment due to claustrophobia and also the difficulty of getting time off work to go every day. I am self-employed and have only just started a new 3 month contract so its tricky to ask to leave early every day. I have to feel some certainty that the HBO treatment would work in my case to go through all the pain of doing it.

Thanks for reading everyone.

 

For me Clonazepam on a higher dose has a nasty side effect. Nasty mood changes. Im taking zoloft. Clonazapam, synthroid. Then I get T. So the meds dont change anything. Maybe Xanax might for sleep.

 

Hi guys
I know I am late in posting on here as this thread was started in Aug. however would you believe I got my tinnitus the day my baby boy was born 18th sept 2012. I got an epidural because it was an emergency c section and from the epidural they put the needle in too far I got a spinal leak and ringing in my ears started. Plus the fact the hospital didn't tell me what was wrong with me and they let me walk about when I should have been lying flat. I lost 20% of my hearing in my left ear in the lower frequencies but this came back to normal after 5 days. Now I have a hum and a hiss on my left ear and a hiss on my right ear. Why I am posting here is because I suffered post traumatic stress combined with post natal depression. My GP prescribed valium which was a life saver at the time along with lexapro. However I wouldn't take the lexapro because one of the side effects listed was tinnitus. I fought through this and feel a bit better now but I did contact a dr in UCSF who said I should take the lexapro because it will make the tinnitus go awày. I haven't taken it for fear of making my tinnitus louder when I am just about coping with it the way it is. So what's your thoughts do you think lexapro could work. My colleague who teaches genetics and medicine said it might work because of the link to GABA. These drugs affect the brain and if tinnitus is càused by changes in the brain then it would make sense!!

 

After reading your opinions on some of the following "Anti-Depressant Drugs" Makes me wonder if i should consider any of the above? If so, which one would be best for a person like me that has tinnitus due to loud music. What do you guys recommend i do?

 

Karl, what is zoloft exactly? Would you be able to provide me with some feedback of why it might work? I have been exposed to Loud Music, therefore that is my main tinnitus generator. Do you think this might help? Thank you!

 

Hi Waldo,

I dont think anyone on here would be prepared to make a recommendation on which drugs you should take. It has to be up to the individual after careful research. All drugs have side-effects and some anti-depressants are noted as 'ototoxic' (poisonous to the ear) and so it has to be at your own risk. Having said that many people of this site do take anti-depressants. I think they work more to make you feel better and so less bothered by T. If you read Lisa Walker's thread you'll see her thoughts on Zoloft.

 

I know nothing about the drug Aisling but I'd read this first:

http://www.drugs.com/forum/need-talk/lexapro-tinnitus-38616.html

"Just curious to see if anyone else has had similar experiences. About one month ago i asked my GP for some Xanax to help me sleep and to deal with occasional panic attacks. The GP refused claiming that Xanax was too addictive. Lexapro was prescribed. I've taken SSRI's in the past (paxil, effexor) but never stayed on them very long because of the sexual side effects. I'm familiar with the "dosing period" required by SSRI's.
So i tried to stick it out with Lexapro but my reactions were worse than i've ever experienced (Major jaw clenching, sweats, axienty, etc.) After my fourth dose, i experienced a hot flash so bad it felt like i was going to die. So i took some of my sister's Xanax and fell asleep for about 6 hours. When i woke up i had ringing in my left ear.
Well, it's been over a month now and the ringing has not disapeared. Sometimes is so low i can barely notice it, but other times it wakes me up in the middle of the night. I went to see an ENT who verified there was no fluid in the ear. But i do have a slight hearing loss. I'm scheduled to go back in a week for more teststing (testing for nerve damage)
Has anyone heard of problems like this with Lexapro. Will this ringing ever go away?
edit: btw, i stopped taking lexapro after the 4th dose."

 

If anyone is going down this route I would recommend taking effexor, its more tolerable, and has better overall effects than Zoloft.. Effexor is also known as Venlafaxine. If you suffer from Glaucoma I recommend frequent visits to have your eyes checked as this drug put a little pressure on the optical nerve, but nothing too major.

 

Do you rate that better than Mirtazapine Joe? I was undecided between asking for Mirtazapine or Venlafaxine and went for Mirtazapine because there are no recordings of it causing tinnitus, as some other ADs do.

 

Hi, Louise. Mirtazapine has a very good report of enhancing mood, it has had some good results, on tolerability and its very similar to venlafaxine in structure. Both drugs are rated as good as each other.