Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. F-u-T

      F-u-T Member

      Location:
      AZ USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trama
      Hope everyone is happily tingling your tongues and starting to see some relief. Lord knows we could all use a little. Cheers.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    2. Oceanick
      Inspired

      Oceanick Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Antibiotics
      This is called somatic tinnitus. It can be a result of a variety of causes. My jaw, neck and even eyes can modulate my tinnitus. Antibiotics caused mine.
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    3. Daniel Lion
      Ape-like

      Daniel Lion Member Benefactor

      Location:
      SE Asia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma, hearing loss
      Any ideas given as to why that is?
      Why are hyperacusis sufferers sometimes super responders... Anybody?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    4. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Sector Alpha
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      And does it reduce the hyperacusis.
       
    5. lapidus

      lapidus Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      They said in the Q&A that they didn't know why.

      No (according to the Q&A).
       
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    6. PeterPan
      Nerdy

      PeterPan Member Advocate

      Location:
      Sydney
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Heat Exhaustion
      Which is strange. My tinnitus is intermittent and I only get hyperacusis when I have tinnitus active.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    7. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Sector Alpha
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Same here.
       
    8. valeri

      valeri Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2011
      So Lenire doesn’t help with hyperacusis?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 3
    9. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      That's what the CEO said in the Q&A interview.
       
    10. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Sector Alpha
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Who the f**k knows about any of this?

      We all need easy access to this like R David Case's thing. There is no reason this should cost what it does. Give me a Lenire and I'll make a $50 equivalent with an Arduino.
       
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      • Agree Agree x 1
    11. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      No it does not, it helped with tinnitus in people who had hyperacusis.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    12. TheDanishGirl
      Sad

      TheDanishGirl Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2017 (H since 06/2017)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      long term noise exposure (headphones), maybe some stress.
      Why are people still asking if this helps hyperacusis? Watch the Q and A. They give a pretty obvious answer about this not helping hyperacusis. Ross flatout says "it is not a treatment for hyperacusis".
       
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    13. Paulmanlike

      Paulmanlike Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      No it has never claimed to help with hyperacusis. Just you’re more likely to get better improvements with tinnitus if you have hyperacusis as well.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    14. AliceW

      AliceW Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma - loud noise
      I think Lenire is not able to raise sound tolerance thresholds, only a good sound therapy used for several months can do it.

      On the other hand, using Lenire, there can certainly be a positive effect on the tensor tympani muscle which is overexcited by calming the global auditory system related to the action on the trigeminal nerve.

      @Clare B and @kelpiemsp said themselves that their sensitivity to noises like dishes, balloons popping and barking dogs are gone after using the device...
       
      • Informative Informative x 5
    15. Mandalay

      Mandalay Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Hi guys,

      I really hope we will know more soon. Let's see how the User Experiences will go...

      The early users are still only in their third or forth week, so it's still a waiting game...
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    16. dayma
      Frustrated

      dayma Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1/6/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      UNKNOWN
      People have been doing DYI neuromodulation on Reddit and Facebook. It’s easy to create a device that will play tones and send electrical current.

      Getting the patterns that work and are tested / controlled across a user set is where Neuromod will make their money.
       
      • Like Like x 1
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    17. GlennS

      GlennS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      ^^^ Exhibit A for why medical patents need to exist. It's not the hardware, it's the software, and that took R&D money to develop. If you worked in the field you wouldn't take kindly to this attitude.

      Also, the cost is subjective. Note that @annV was so sure it would cost more she bet her boobs on it.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
      • Funny Funny x 1
    18. GregCA
      Jaded

      GregCA Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      What you pay for isn't the hardware you're getting. It's the research that's going into figuring out what needs to be done and how to do it.

      From https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/:
      The Graybeard engineer retired and a few weeks later the Big Machine broke down, which was essential to the company’s revenue. The Manager couldn’t get the machine to work again so the company called in Graybeard as an independent consultant.

      Graybeard agrees. He walks into the factory, takes a look at the Big Machine, grabs a sledge hammer, and whacks the machine once whereupon the machine starts right up. Graybeard leaves and the company is making money again.

      The next day Manager receives a bill from Graybeard for $5,000. Manager is furious at the price and refuses to pay. Graybeard assures him that it’s a fair price. Manager retorts that if it’s a fair price Graybeard won’t mind itemizing the bill. Graybeard agrees that this is a fair request and complies.

      The new, itemized bill reads….

      Hammer: $5

      Knowing where to hit the machine with hammer: $4995
       
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    19. JRC1

      JRC1 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
      I am perplexed as to why we are not seeing "user reports" or "user reviews" from those using Lenire. Has someone asked these people to presently refrain from reporting their experiences?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    20. Paulmanlike

      Paulmanlike Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      We still haven’t seen @annV's boobs as promised haha. I wonder what her reaction was like when they announced the price, “oh shit balls”.
       
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    21. Fabrikat

      Fabrikat Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1973
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
      The timing specs may well be available in the published paper. If it's to be repeatable, it can't be secret.

      Also, if one includes the costs of replacing the tongue tips at the specified intervals, Lenire will cost considerably more than the initial fee.

      Technically, @annV is correct about the actual total cost. Over time, it will exceed her €3000 estimate.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    22. Ruse
      No Mood

      Ruse Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL & TMJ
      Not sure how you have come to this figure.

      The total treatment time will be circa 84 hours. The tongue tips last for 180 hours so you will be able to get at least 2 x 12 week treatments out of a single tongue tip.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    23. Bndsmheowqhe

      Bndsmheowqhe Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise exposure
      I'm not into older ladies but I'd be willing to offer "comfort" to Ms. Shore if the University of Michigan device works as well as she claims.
       
      • Funny Funny x 3
      • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    24. Phendran
      Benevolent

      Phendran Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
    25. Fabrikat

      Fabrikat Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1973
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis then volume then viral infection
      I've based it on the premise that Lenire may be a palliative treatment requiring extended use for some people. And that the tonguetip, as a consumable item, needing to be replaced over time, will incur additional costs for the user.
       
      • Friendly Friendly x 1
    26. GlennS

      GlennS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      If it works the way they suggest it will, you only use it once and it lasts the rest of your life.

      Also, R&D is typically secret only to facilitate being the first to patent an invention. The patent process is literally about documenting it to prove that you were the inventor, hence worthy of patent protection. Others are free to implement the invention as long as they pay a licensing fee to the patent holder. Things may work somewhat differently with medical patents. Patents can be rejected based on something known as "prior art". Pretty much all technology is evolutionary rather than revolutionary and Lenire isn't the first attempt at neuromodulation so I don't know how well any of their patents (if they have them) would hold up in court. But if they have any intention of being a for-profit enterprise they would probably want to prevent the cheap reverse-engineered counterfeits that @JohnAdams says he'd love to make.

      And lastly, part of what you're paying for would best be classified as professional medical services, that is, the audiogram and the configuration of the device parameters to that audiogram and tracking progress through the milestones. How well would a DIY approach perform with amateur/laymen configuring the device? Is it worth the risk?

      I get that this isn't cheap but I don't think it is at Epipen levels of abusive exploitation that way John is implying.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    27. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      • Funny Funny x 1
    28. Heinrich_S7
      Relaxed

      Heinrich_S7 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Uncertain
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise exposure
      Mindfulness meditation is similar to this, MRI scans show permanent shrinkage of the amygdala, and growth in the hippocampus and frontal cortex via neuroplasticity.

      If bimodal stimulation physically changes the DCN, the tinnitus shouldn't come back provided you avoid more NIHL.
       
      • Optimistic Optimistic x 4
      • Informative Informative x 2
    29. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Sector Alpha
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      The more I learn and research deeper and deeper into this I'm kinda thinking this is genius.
       
      • Like Like x 6
      • Agree Agree x 1
    30. Mitch

      Mitch Member

      Location:
      Ontario, CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise
      So is it worth flying to Ireland for Lenire or should I wait for it to be available in North America?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 3

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