Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. El BUZZ
      Buzzed

      El BUZZ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music consumption plus acoustic trauma.
      Sorry if my poor understanding of English made me misunderstand this but, aren't they changing the device specs due to neuroplasticity? I thought they change them halfway through the treatment to prevent the brain getting used to the signals.
       
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    2. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Yes, it could be that the reason the improvements plateau is due to the brain getting used to the signals. It could also be that the reason the improvements plateau is that their stimulation is simply sub-optimal.
       
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    3. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Yes, and I think depending on the results, they can actually keep changing the timings. That's why @Redknight reported they are working on being able to change it online for the patients.
       
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    4. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      The online update functionality is totally unconfirmed, a rumor kicked off by @Redknight.

      I wonder if Lenire even has the theoretical possibility to receive remote online updates? Surely it requires hardware support.
       
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    5. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Lim's chart showed a flattening out of the angle of improvements during the 2nd half. That suggests a maximum point of diminishing returns even when changing up the parameters. Of course, if their parameters are just somehow "wrong" they might unlock something better, but as it is now, I see law of diminishing returns taking over.
       
    6. Ruse
      No Mood

      Ruse Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL & TMJ
      @Redknight So happy for you my man - thanks for taking time to come back and write up your experience.

      Good to see that noticeable / further improvements can be made after 12 weeks. I'm sure this will bring some positivity back into the thread.
       
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    7. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      @Redknight Thank you for updating us on your experience.

      It's true that this thread has some added negativity, and with what we are seeing, it is not warranted. I understand some healthy skepticism, but what's going on does not look like that.

      It sounds like you are gonna move on with life happily now. If that is the case, thank you for letting us know about your experience and findings at every meeting, and enjoy your silence / near silence! :thankyousign::rockingbanana:
       
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    8. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      @Redknight can you share what was your MML at the initial appointment with Neuromod? Also do you know the cause of your tinnitus in the first place?
       
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    9. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Great update @Redknight - thanks.

      Is it okay to ask how old you are?
       
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    10. Ivkopivko
      Speechless

      Ivkopivko Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      don't know, probably motorsport + headphones for last years
      @Redknight - congrats bud! Thanks for sharing your experience and "story", what awesome news! Enjoy moments of quiet, well deserved.

      Have you tried to do/experience anything "louder" since you started the treatment? For example travelling by train, walking nearby noisy traffic or stand close to motorbike without earplugs or muffs ... what I mean is if you have experienced any spike/reactivity or worsening (spike) related to noise exposure.

      Have you had or do you still have (if this is the case) signs of hyperacusis? How do you deal with specific loud sudden laugh, or clinging with dishes? Sorry if you have already answered elsewhere on the forum, but I didn't see it in your posts.

      Many thanks and once again - enjoy!
       
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    11. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      @Redknight thanks for the update.
      This gives me some hope although we don't share the same characteristics as your tinnitus is much more recent than mine.

      I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much. Call it self-preservation, or hardening against the possibility that it might not work as well for long-term sufferers, but don't call it negativity.

      As a means of coping I think many of us have flattened their emotional responses to many things in life. It prevents us from getting too low but it also tempers the joys as well.

      I think many on this thread express some skepticism that is mostly due to this mechanism that I tried to explain above. Some firm believers then call out this "negativity" and so it goes on and on.

      For me, every positive report gets my hopes up, and the negative ones, well...

      It's not like we can approach this with the same emotional neutrality as, say, a review of the car you're about to buy or have already ordered.

      Lenire's been pushed forward as the first ever treatment that could diminish the actual loudness. I am hopeful, but I still remember the hype about Neuromonics and Notched Audio from a decade ago. It forces me to curb my enthusiasm...
       
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    12. Tybs

      Tybs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fall from stairs
      I've been following this thread for months now, but my account is only from a few days ago, so I didn't respond before... but there is one perspective I would like to add.

      IMO, Lenire right now stands for progress. They might eventually manage to diminish tinnitus for everyone, or (worst case, let's hope not) mess it up to higher levels. But no matter the outcome, they dó produce results. And results equals data.

      Even if Lenire fails its treatment in the end, there will be plenty of data to analyze. They might be able to link specific symptoms (tones, crickets, w/e) to specific parameters which had a positive or negative outcome. Scientifically seen, even a negative outcome is positive in the sense of that it had a clear effect: once something has an effect, you have indicators to figure out the exact cause, which could lead to a new (working) treatment in the future. It's a way of trial and error, though I assume they're not completely blanc in their background data when using this on people.

      Those who dare to try Lenire are heroes in my view, since they help to provide data to work with. At some point, parameter sets and outcomes should become predictable. I just hope the company is willing to open up their data to others, should it happen that their product does not succeed.
       
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    13. Lurius
      Wishful

      Lurius Member

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      September 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, but probably stress
      I just wanted to say thanks @Redknight for your positive review, it's stuff like this that keeps me going while I wait for my appointment from Neuromod. I wish you luck with the future and a lot of quiet days.

      If you don't mind, I would also love to know how old you are and whether you got tinnitus in both or only one ear. I'm soon to be 35, I've had tinnitus for 14.5 months and I have tinnitus only in my left ear.
       
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    14. El BUZZ
      Buzzed

      El BUZZ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music consumption plus acoustic trauma.
      It feels like a soft breeze to read reviews such as the one @Redknight just shared with us. Asking him all those details can add valuable information to the data we all are collecting here but I insist in the fact that the ultimate way of knowing if Lenire works for oneself is just trying it. Who's more determined to try it is a question of the severity of the subject's tinnitus.
       
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    15. hans799
      Mellow

      hans799 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Hungary
      Tinnitus Since:
      Born with it
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Worsened Dec 2016 by headphones
      And there you have it. Ask, and ye shall receive! ;)
       
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    16. Tame

      Tame Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Jan 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Can I ask you please if your tinnitus was originally tonal or hissing?
       
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    17. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      One good story in a sea of "meh" is so-so. And let's remember Redknight has only had tinnitus for 6 months. It could have gotten better without any intervention. We need Redknight stories from people who have had killer suicide tinnitus for many years.
       
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    18. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To ajc:

      Very good point - I am awaiting 20 such reports regarding every variety, duration and intensity of this condition.
       
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    19. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      I think not too many people with mild tinnitus can be bothered to get treatment.
       
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    20. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      I have mild/moderate tinnitus (8dB MML above hearing treshold and 20dB hearing loss) and I am bothered enough to pick-up my device on November 29th. I know there are more cases like mine.
       
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    21. Lurius
      Wishful

      Lurius Member

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      September 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, but probably stress
      There definitely is, I'm one of them.
       
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    22. Ruse
      No Mood

      Ruse Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL & TMJ
      I probably have mild tinnitus in terms of volume and THI, and I still want it gone. There's an annoying tone I have at around 12 kHz that is difficult to mask.
       
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    23. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To Bartoli and Mentos:

      My audiologist said that, given the extent of my hearing loss, my tinnitus "was not bad at all."

      "Oh, really?", I said to myself.
      "Just try concentrating in quiet library".
      "I have not been able to endure sitting in my quiet front living room for 6 years."
      "I had difficulty in not being so preoccupied with this sound that I could fully listen to my banking rep in his quiet office atmosphere."

      I will also be a willing candidate when Dr. Shore's device is available.
       
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    24. Monte Castleman

      Monte Castleman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure
      I've noticed that my tinnitus seems to be at its worst during the days I have headaches or back / neck / arm pain (I have MRI confirmed radiculopathy and neck herniation - I've refused offered surgery because of reports of anesthesia and antibiotics permanently worsening tinnitus).

      Does this have any bearing one way or another as to whether I'd be a good candidate for these new bimodal devices?
       
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    25. hans799
      Mellow

      hans799 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Hungary
      Tinnitus Since:
      Born with it
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Worsened Dec 2016 by headphones
      Likewise - my tinnitus is 10dB MML as measured by Neuromod, with almost zero hearing loss, and I gladly shelled out the euro-thousands. I know I am blessed to have relatively quiet tinnitus but it's still a bitch sometimes.
       
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    26. acute
      Depressed

      acute Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music. Stress, meds, Invisalign ?
      @Redknight I just want to say thank you.

      The easy way to proceed would have been to forget about us and this forum and never come back. But you have kept us updated with powerful information. Thank you.
       
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    27. Redknight

      Redknight Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Lisburn, N.Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I have tinnitus that is reactive to white noise, so MML was hard for me as my tinnitus 'chases' the white noise. Around 10 dB in the booth under the NM testing environment.

      I'm not completely sure; a mixture of severe stress/depression, some sort of viral thing and a noise exposure. All these things happened within a few days of each other and I had tinnitus one day afterwards.
       
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    28. Redknight

      Redknight Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Lisburn, N.Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      39.
       
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    29. Redknight

      Redknight Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Lisburn, N.Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I have a residual fear of loud noises, although that's probably a healthy fear. I no longer have spikes or worry about noise, beyond what I now consider everyone should be wary. I will wear earplugs for very noisy environments but I would not need them for everyday noises like traffic or doing the dishes.
       
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    30. Redknight

      Redknight Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Lisburn, N.Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      39. Mostly in my head, but sometimes in my left or right ear only. Mostly high pitched fizzing, with rare Morse code beeps.
       
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