Mindfulness Is Key to Tinnitus Relief Research Reveals

Discussion in 'Research News' started by toolman, Feb 7, 2019.

    1. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
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      karma
      what? No I'm not, that's crazy.

      You're suggesting that we can't work on multiple problems at the same time. Actually, we can and are.

      Additionally, I am saying that over the 20 years I've had tinnitus, the techniques being studied in this work have been useful to me in increasing my quality of life. Therefore, I am interested in seeing them refined, having a better understanding on how they work, as well as what their limitations are (and how, if at all, they can actually affect the progression of tinnitus over time).

      The research pipeline "cures" being discussed instead, are vaporware at present. The stuff this (mindfulness) research has looked into has directly improved my own life, and a lot of the ways I have integrated it are based on research that's only been done over the last decade or two. So, it's simply crazy to me for someone to tell me that this research isn't in my interest. If it's not in yours, that's cool, you probably also don't like the same sports teams I do.

      to come back to your initial quote here, I am saying that Until we're able to be cured of a disease, it's important to learn how to live with it as well as possible, and very rational to investigate ways of doing that clinically.

      Believe me, I want nothing more than a cure. I've spent thousands and traveled thousands of miles being a lab rat for 2 different device trials, and I'd really like to not be on benzos forever. However, in the mean time, I still gotta live, as do we all.
       
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    2. Jazzer

      Jazzer Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      1/1995
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      Noise
      You’re talking my language there Lane.
      When I talk to, stroke, and love my pussycats I am very much aware that they know nothing about my affliction.
      To them, I am their dad, and I am ‘whole.’
      I love all three, who have totally different characters, and I love them just as I would love people.
      (PS - I admit to being ‘soppy as a sack!’)
       
    3. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      No offense but in his case I do. Getting rid of disease is better than learning how to live with it, as John Adams said.
       
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    4. Lane

      Lane Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ototoxic Drug
      Totally agree, but in the meantime... :whistle:
       
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    5. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      This isn’t meant to be snarky @threefirefour but I don’t know why you say we when your tinnitus is gone.
       
    6. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Yes I know the “but muh meantime” argument mindfulness shills use to deflect the flaws in their argument.

      Yes there’s no treatment now, but the “meantime” of suffering will only be prolonged by not donating everything we’ve got to actual research. Because of this, ironically wasteful studies like this hurt us in the meantime.

      And as Linearb said, it’s not a fully explored field. I doubt this but if this is true then this means this isn’t optimal in the meantime, and when it is optimized it will be obsolete.
       
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    7. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      I said we because I’m still part of the tinnitus community. Just because it’s gone now doesn’t mean I don’t know what it’s like. I still understand how much it sucks and how much we need a treatment. I experienced pre-tinnitus, tinnitus, and post-tinnitus. Trust me when you get yours treated you’ll end up understanding. Even @kelpiemsp came around to some degree.
       
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    8. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      I'm not offended, you just seem stubborn to a fault son this subject to me and from my perspective you're not seeing the forest for the trees, but it's cool, we don't have to agree.

      Obviously, getting rid of disease is better than learning to live with it. Nowhere did I disparage that; this is a strawman you're making for me.
       
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    9. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      I’m not strawmaning you I know what your point is. You think that a cure would be best but in the meantime we need something to help sufferers. My point is by wasting our money on pointless studies like these were prolonging the unoptimal period of not having a treatment, therefore it’s in our best interest right now to not fund it, so we can work on getting to a treatment faster.
       
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    10. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      I get it, and you lose me at "pointless", and it's quite clear we're not going to agree on that, so my more technical objections to your arguments aren't even worth going into because we're ideologically not valuing things the same way.
       
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    11. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      I’m just saying. If you go over the game theory behind it... I’m right.
       
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    12. jay777

      jay777 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      benzo/ headphones
      And a lot of painkillers.
       
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    13. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      From a utilitarian point of view, as I said before, this exact kind of research has directly improved the quality of my life - so it's quite hilarious to be debating whether or not you are "right".

      Dismissing that with some nonspecific nod to "game theory" is reduction to absurdity.
       
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    14. Agrajag364

      Agrajag364 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      OK well it's great you still consider yourself part of the community. I used to have something grim called new daily persistent headache; a constant headache. It does not usually go away and mine went away after years. I stayed in the main group for the condition so I could tell people it does go sometimes and most importantly to share the stuff I did to help it go on the off chance it helps others. It would be good if you could do this. Your memes are hilarious and all, but still.
       
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    15. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Sorry what I was saying is from a purely practical stance my POV makes more sense.

      Imagine you’re outside, and it starts raining. You want to go inside so you don’t get wet. Do you get less wet if you run or walk? If you run. Because even though you’re running into more drops you spend much less time in the rain.

      If we cut the fat out of tinnitus research and spend it on treatment options, were running in the rain. We spend less time suffering.
       
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    16. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Well mine was TMD tinnitus. Most people can’t benefit from what I did. But some people DM me asking me for help
       
    17. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Ever heard the term, expect the worst, hope for the best (or vice versa)? No? Learn it. Then you won't be disappointed. But I'm catching a LOT of desperation in this forum which is channeling itself into magical thinking like the above on one extreme and misdirected rage on the other (Bam being the main offender). Neither are really going to help matters. Also look into Kubler Ross stages of grief.

      kubler_ross_change_curve-optimised.jpg



      The more mental energy I devote to T the more I suffer. The more I direct my mental energy towards other tasks, whatever it is, the more I win that round. T is always there and always drags you down but the trick is to keep doggy-paddling to keep your head above water. That's my interpretation of "mindfulness". It's not a cure, but it is one of the only coping mechanisms that works and isn't self-destructive.
       
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    18. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
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      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Alright you’re behind. You dissed the forum as being a hive of desperation but you aren’t on the level yet to understand this dialogue. Might help to go back and reread.
       
    19. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Okay then, let me get the argument back on track. Zero dollars should be spent on tinnitus research that focuses on mindfulness. We get it, mind over matter. No extra studying is going to make this point any clearer or derive some secret psychological technique that will make this any easier.
       
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    20. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Sure, very succinctly I disagree because I think there's a ton of things yet to be learned about how conscious attention impacts neurology and longevity, including both tinnitus specifically and brains in general.

      Saying "mind over matter" implies that you don't get it; that's not what any of this is about. That's not how meditation/mindfulness works, at all, but that's a tangent I'd rather explore in PMs or in a different thread.

      Saying that a technique won't be derived, overlooks the significant changes in clinical approaches to these practices which have occurred only relatively recently as a result of research like this.

      Again, this book is a pretty good summary of (as of ~5-6 years ago) the state of science surrounding attention practices. There's a lot of fascinating things in here that are reasonably conclusive, there's also a lot of neat ideas that don't yet have any evidentiary basis, and a wider space of things we really don't understand at all:

      https://www.amazon.com/Selfless-Insight-Meditative-Transformations-Consciousness/dp/0262516659
       
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    21. annV
      Fine

      annV Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      Props to @linearb! He is the adult in this discussion with actual thought provoking arguments.

      linearb 1 - JohnAdams 0
       
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    22. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
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      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      ototoxic pain killers for noise induced pain...
       
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    23. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      I'm sorry for the walls of text, I just get triggered when people demand defunding of something which has had a significant and positive impact on my life
       
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    24. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      Wait - your tinnitus is gone?

      Can we get the who/what/when/where/why of this story?
       
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    25. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      What bothers me is the way some people come across as if the world should treat them like they're the center of the universe. That's not to deny anyone's suffering, but the fact is the world is full of suffering people of all stripes. Tinnitus is just one and unfortunately it winds up competing for mindshare and funding, and when there's competition, there's drama.
       
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    26. david c

      david c Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2012
      And if we had infinite resources and infinite amounts of time then I'm sure that these things would be moderately interesting to find out. But this research was funded by an organisation - the BTA - which is forever telling us how limited the amount of research resources it has. Therefore I'd much rather it started spending some of them at least contributing to good quality biomedical research. Maybe therefore you could find some billionaire to help find these out instead.
       
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    27. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
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      May 1st 2018
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      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Well since your hypno-science works so well then maybe we could take break from funding that and focus all funding on an actual cure?
       
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    28. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      0fc.gif
       
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    29. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
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      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Because there is a finite amount of resources going to this and plenty of room for more funding for bio-medical research.

      If I'm not mistaken, the research field for tinnitus is already dominated by pseudo-psychological malarky anyway.
       
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    30. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
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      karma
      okay, cool, well I'll just disagree with you and you can stop giving money to the BTA or whatever if you want! pretty clear we'll never agree on this, and ultimately it'll be a footnote in whatever the long term evolution of tinnitus care is
       
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