New Research: Erase Anxiety and Fear for Tinnitus

New scientific / psychological approach that shows how it is possible to FORGET memories or ERASE THE FEAR AND ANXIETY out of a memory.

By using this technique, I theorize it would be possible for a trained psychologist to help a Tinnitus victim to ERASE THE NEGATIVE EMOTIONAL FEAR AND ANXIETY that is associated with Tinnitus.

I watched a 1 hour PBS NOVA special that shows how scientists are manipulating memory.
NOVA: MEMORY HACKERS
http://www.broadwayworld.com/bwwtv/article/PBS-to-Premiere-NOVA-MEMORY-HACKERS-Today-20160209#

“The new one-hour documentary, a production of WGBH Boston, examines how memories are formed, what encompasses the act of remembering and the new technologies being used to implant, edit and even erase memories, a process that could DELETE our worst fears”
….
“Any time we recall an old memory, we essentially disrupt it. And the idea that even the simple act of remembering could make our memories vulnerable to change has transformed our entire understanding of memory.”

The segment I found most applicable to Tinnitus victims is the part about a doctor in Amsterdam who was able to get her patients to forget their fear of spiders.

WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR A PSYCHOLOGIST TO USE THE SAME ANXIETY & MEMORY ERASING TEACHING ON TINNITUS VICTIMS??

Here is another link, search for the part about Merel Kindt …
http://www.wmht.org/blogs/nova/nova-the-memory-hackers/

“In Amsterdam, NOVA viewers meet experimental clinical psychologist Merel Kindt, who is working with people suffering from phobias and anxiety disorders. Kindt has developed a treatment based on Nader’s findings to abate the life-long fears of patients by administering a common blood-pressure medication, which works by blocking the action of adrenaline in the amygdala—the fear center of the brain. It’s not a “forget pill.” The original fear memory must be reactivated for it to work. NOVA viewers will see firsthand highly nervous spider-phobes vanquish their fears and calmly pet a big hairy tarantula after undergoing a treatment that destabilizes memories and then interferes with the restabilization of the original fear memory. Kindt is now among a handful of scientists using reconsolidation to treat a variety of human disorders, from drug addiction to post-traumatic stress disorder.”

So basically the formula looks like this (?) …

1.) Get patient to experience the fear or anxiety (in our case, a sharp noise that aggravates tinnitus ringing in ears).
When the fear is brought up in patient, then memory is now “active”, hence vulnerable to being changed.

2.) Give patient the medication such as propranolol (that is what Merel Kindt used)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propranolol

3.) You’re cured (???) Is it really that easy??

Somebody else smart please look into this.
Maybe someone from Amsterdam can contact Merel Kindt and ask her to do a trial on Tinnitus victims.

 

If it doesn't "erase" the fear and anxiety how does this prevent it from returning in the future?

 

Dear Zorro, the technique claims that it DOES erase fear and anxiety.
That is the whole point, you can live with tinnitus, without experiencing fear and anxiety (which are what make tinnitus unbearable).
Does that make sense to you?

 

I was just trying to figure out what you meant when you said "it's not a forget pill". So does this mean that you have to take the medication on a daily basis? Or is this a "once and done" type of deal with fear and anxiety completely gone forever?

 

From what I can tell, it indicates that this is a one time deal that has been proven to last a year or more.

The quote was taken from the article ...
http://www.wmht.org/blogs/nova/nova-the-memory-hackers/

None of this is anything I have done or known to work.
I'm just reciting what the article says and what I saw on TV.

The good thing is that no new medication has to be developed.
Just need a skilled clinical psychologist to help you become agitated and activate your anxiety in a controlled setting and then they give you some medicine.

 

I'd say, dubious.

I don't have much in the way of fear or anxiety related to my tinnitus anymore. Took years, but I got there. So, it's not "life destroying", "soul crushing", insert-other-hyperbolic-adjective-here anymore.

It's still annoying.

That said, long-term potentiation seems to be pretty intimately involved with the tinnitus percept itself; maybe LTP related to tinnitus could be ablated somehow.

 

I dont think its that simple.
Anxiety & Fear of T can be erased or its not strong anymore. Its somethink we can manipulate for sure.
T cannot be erased. we cannot manipulate it. I see why ypu are that excited.
But lets stay realistic. Fear&Anxiety of t and T itself are 2 compöetely differnet things, and also happen in 2 different parts of the brain.

sorry to disappoint you

 

I'm all in favor of "taming" the amygdala and look forward to the day when more concrete methods of doing so are implemented on a wide scale.

 

Yes you are right, fear of T and T itself are two different things.

But, one this for sure, the more you fear T, the worse it gets.
Removing the fear is essential.

Maybe someone who reads this can contact Doctor Merel Kindt in Netherlands and ask her if this will work?

 

Very interesting. I'll definitely give the documentary a watch. Memories and dreams have always fascinated me, being that dreams compromise our most deep-rooted 'memories' or as you rightly put it, somewhat 'distorted' versions of them.

As for 'erasing fear' (I'm getting lots of SciFi distopia ideas, our accention towards the realms of 'perfection' but essentially becoming part of 'the program'. Matrix & Equilibrium anyone?) I digress.. It's certainly the more attainable & realistic form of 'reasoning', I won't say solution but it's certainly the real reason it affects us the way it does. 'Fear feeds on fear' and all that. It's our understanding or rather lack there of & our memories of times without it, (usually a much more glorified distortion of the past), that gives us theses feelings of regret, longing & desperation.

Until the solution becomes a reality, I'm all for this idea & will keep both eyes on it!

Thanks for sharing.

Peace! o/

 

Anxiety and Fear are interconnected with emotions. That's why when people use drugs to feel good it ends up covering up their real emotions and as they eventually ease off of this drug and leave it, life becomes more difficult because their anxiety, fears, emotional issues come back to haunt them and they get pulled back into reality and can't cover up how they really feel.

I just don't believe there is such a way to get rid of ones anxiety and fears unless these memory hackers were actually able to go into ones brain and destroy the neurons/brain cell that hold those certain pieces of memory in which the fear or anxiety have formed from. I don't know it just doesn't sound right.

 

mmm interisting!!! Propanolole is an antiarrithmyc drugs that act on..... potassium channell blockage!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propranolol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_channel_blocker

This old drug is also used to treat parkinson, tremors and involontary movements that many time are linked to the ways in the brain about the phantom pain and tinnitus.

Very very interisting

It deserve further investigation

Thank you for sharing @Lance

 

What do you mean in many times are linked to the ways in the brain about phantom pain and tinnitus? Can you explain that a little more?

 

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

 

Nick Pyzik -"I just don't believe there is such a way to get rid of ones anxiety and fears unless these memory hackers were actually able to go into ones brain and destroy the neurons/brain cell that hold those certain pieces of memory in which the fear or anxiety have formed from. I don't know it just doesn't sound right."

My response: Yes, you have a good point Nick. The premise of this technique is that memories are "malleable" and "changeable". A memory isn't 'active" until it is recalled, otherwise you would be immediately overwhelmed with all the memories in your life occurring all at once.

When you recall a memory, you essentially relive it vicariously. When a memory is recalled, it is susceptible to being changed. It's like opening a page of a book in your mind to re-read it and having a magic marker that allows you to change the writing on that page.

Neurons are not destroyed in this process; you are not killing parts of your brain. Only the links between the neurons can be changed or altered; those are called synapsis. There are drugs that influence the way synapsis connect.

Joann A, in previous post mentions "potassium channel". Indeed that is related to synaptic activity.

In the clinical experiment referred to in my original post, the good Doctor makes the patient relive the memory of fear put patient putting hand on tarantula. As the fear is "alive" in the patient's mind, she administers a drug. The memory is still there, but the FEAR component is removed.

GOOD NEWS: I sent an email to Doctor Kindt and she replied back with interest and some questions. I responded back with more info. It is amazing that she responded back. I feel happy that someone smart is looking into this.

 

i can't be short because is not easy to explain the battle of the brain between the conscius and unconscius and then salience network (insula and anterior cingulate cortex) that our brain attaches abnormal/paradoxical behavioral relevance to the tinnitus, which prevents from habituating/filetring from the phantoms. Anxiety component is the key.

Many times scientists had hypotized that tinnitus is a form of seizure of the auditory cortex, so a part of the brain. The brain is linked with a lot of circuits inside itself, starting from the basal ganglia , to the amygdala, hyppocampus, thalamus and then the cortex. A lot of signals that always work but if the "job" is not correct on synaptic levels then you will obtain the nerong firing that is at the origin of a lot of neurological disorder such as epilepsy,tinnitus, tremors, depression, anxiety, phantom pain and more others. It has been demonstrated that those circuits are for sure involved in the developements and maintenance of various neurological conditions, such tremors, tinnitus, and more others. When we hear something that don't existt (the tinnitus) we, involontary, became scared (anxiety) and the area of the fear (hippocampus) will be activated creating a loop between the main deep circuit (thalamus) and the frontal cortex. There is an area called, insular cortex, that is the area where the emotion are processed and automatically sended to the whole brain areas. Then start a vicous circle. It is very difficult for me to explain but you could try an innocous experiment. Download the software Audacity for free and create your tinnitus. After, use it with headset at loud volume (not more loud than your noise) for 2 minutes in order to became really conscius of an auditory event that your brain KNOW that really exist because developed and WANTED by you! After 2 minutes stop suddenly and you will notice that you will be not able to distinguish if you have the tinnitus or not (it is also called residual inhibition)
It's difficult to explain but @Lance is right! The fear and anxiety play the most biggest role in the development and maintenance of the condition.
unconsciously!

 

So this thing could do what TRT claims it does.

 

Not. TRT (fraud) therapy should have been only a "start point". If i was a scientist i would been to register the brain activity during the noise/masking external source in order to understand better the target in the brain (synapses, cheministry etc.). The source, the link, the tinnitus hub. I can't have a precise answer to your comment. All what i know is that many time there are more than a factor that influence the tinnitus, such anxiety and fear that are recordable with eeg and magnetoencefalography or fMRI. Thanks to those tecniques i hope soon we will have an answer and then relief. In part we could have already some answers; the fact that in some cases antidepressants work for tinnitus (only when the major depressive disorder is present) and the same for the benzodiazepines but more and more important are the role of antiseizures like trobalt and tegretol. Frequently the antiseizures are used off label with good success in mood disorders refractory to the classic benzos + antidepresants combo and the fact the majority of t suffers obtain benefit using this class of drugs means that mainly, calming down the electical overactivity in the brain, have the results to lower the t.

"An important finding of the present study was the influence of sound on cortical activity. The masking of tinnitus is a popular treatment method. Therefore, during audiometry, a sound that matched and therefore masked an individual's tinnitus was used as the acoustic stimulation for EEG. In the tinnitus patients, sound application changed spontaneous activity in the prefrontal, frontal, parietal, temporal, central and occipital cortices on the left or right, depending on the region. The amplitude of the beta-1, beta-h and delta waves was increased, and the amplitude of the alpha-1 wave was decreased; sound stimulation emphasized this pathology in the tinnitus patients. Two other observations regarding the alpha-1 and delta waves indicated a tendency to return to normal after acoustic stimulation. Sound stimulation, however, inconsistently affected cortical activity; it did not appear to modify the same waves that were observed to be abnormal in a particular lobe. Moreover, the temporal region, which is considered a potential origin of tinnitus, was modified only very slightly."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3634972/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441951/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595515001008

 

Very deep explanation Joan. Thank you.

I've read articles stating that noise can cause a disconnection of auditory nerve synapses to the appropriate hair cell it was attached to. Once the synapses has lost its connection, the spiral ganglion neuron will retract back into the brain, assuming the auditory cortex and eventually die from not being able to respond to sound and since the synapse can't function properly. What do you think happens to the these auditory neurons? I'm especially curious since it's been shown that our hearing causes basically all the regions of the brain to light up in which they are being interacted with from our hearing.

Tinnitus has been said to be caused by "misfiring neurons" but then I've read articles that claim Tinnitus is caused by loss of auditory nerve synapses. I'm very curious as to when these spiral ganglion neurons die, do the neurons that work with them in the different regions of the brain like the amygdala, cerebellum, hippocampus, motor cortex, prefrontal cortex. I wonder what happens to the neurons in those regions.

It's also been discovered that new nerve fibers form in the auditory nerve as we age or in other words lose our original auditory nerve fibers to loud noise. These nerves don't function like the original at all. They only seem to pick up sound from the hair cells. I wonder where these new nerves sprout out from? In an article explaining the emotional affect tinnitus has one someone, when some develops tinnitus, the brain with it by using more of the Frontal Lobe for decision making and changes it's emotional regions to more of the Parahippocampus and the insula. Maybe the new nerves sprout out of these regions?

Auditory Nerve Damage:

http://www.hearingreview.com/2014/0...anism-nerve-fiber-loss-discussed-asa-meeting/

Simple Study example of Tinnitus & Nerve damage relation

http://www.tinnitus.org.uk/tinnitus-and-hidden-hearing-loss

Emotional Processing - Tinnitus:

https://news.illinois.edu/blog/view/6367/266513

 

Nick Pyzik,
A lot of what you said has merit.
But, I never heard of NEW auditory nerve fibers growing.
If nerves could regrow, then quadriplegics could walk again, it would be a big business.
When a nerve is dead, it's dead (but maybe I'm wrong).

There is increasing interest on how to regrow the small hairs of the inner ear.
As a pressure wave hits the eardrum, the kinetic energy is transferred through the small bones of the inner ear and into the fluid in our inner ears. Now it's like a wave going through the water that moves the small hairs. The small hairs are connected or attached somehow to nerve cells. When the small hair moves, it disrupts a chemical balance in a cell, which causes an electrical signal to be sent by the nerve cell, which follows the ganglia all the way up to the auditory cortex.

Some people conjecture that some small hairs of the inner ear have been bent or broken, or permanently bend down, causing an infinite signal to be sent.

Or the hair and it's corresponding nerve cell are destroyed from a loud pressure wave, and that results as no signal can ever be sent to the auditory cortex, that corresponds to the frequency that hair/nerve cell(s) is(are) responsible for.

So many microscopic components in that Biocircuit ... that is why they don't know exactly how to fix it.
If you operate on it or experiment with it, you'll kill it.

 

Hi mate;

i'm not sure about this. I know, and surely even you, friends that do the disk jokey for job without any ear protection and they are deaf or with releavant hearing loss but they haven't any idea of what is the tinnitus. Scientists are tryng to give an explanation studiyng the link between hearing loss and tinnitus but they are failing because people who use hearing aids and more, like people with cochlear implant (that directly stimulate the auditory nerve to the deep dorsal cochlear nucleus) could have always 3 results; suppressing/ improvement, no change, or even a worsening. They should go over the cochlear disfunctions.
So the discussion in not that the :

The neurons became "freezed" going overactive or hypoactive (both conditions alter the normal functions of brain/waves areas influencing the whole process) and don't die.... is the contrary they regenerate in continous. Infact many people that have a trauma like for car accidents or others, after the initial trauma, if they lost a function even organic, after they can recover with big success even if they have lost a leg forever. They run the marathon with protesys! Do you remember the movie "Top gun"? When Maverick lost his friend "Goose", the operation commander orders his instructor to make sure that maverick back to fly as soon as possible. Mainly the order is to recovery the functions and mental capacity as soon as possible to avoid a "falldown" of brain on loosing the self-trust and selfacceptance re-booting yourself! This is what exactly happen for depression,anxiety. epilepsy and others conditions in absence of organic causes,sò idiophatic. The reasons for which antiseizures and sometimes tranquillizers works temporary on tinnitus is just this: those drugs inhibit the release of glutammate that is the main responsible of excitatory neurons, targeting the specific brain areas that show an alterations of the eeg, "calming" the brain, those will calm the tinnitus but truly they are not calming the tinnitus but only the perception! You will also feel dizzy,confused, high like illegal drugs... I try to do another stupid example, of course consider those words only a personal opinion;

imagine that you are really affectionate to an object that for you is not only an object for example your car, or a boat, or a guitar, what you want to imagine. Those object are linked to a lot of events of your life so you have attached something of "special" on it. Expecially the memories and positive emotions!!! Ok?

One day the thieves rob your car. What happen? Maybe you will cry (serotonin circuits go down), then anger (dopaminergic circuits overactivated), thinking to memories and (for example) you need to vent with alcohol or tranquillizers... After, considering that you can't die of alcohol and tranquillizer you will buy another car but the fear and anger for the robbery remain alive in your brain. So those thoughs will drive you to find a preventive forms of anti-robbery like antitheft, gps, notification on phone of movements of your car in absence of you. So,and back on topic "Erase anxiety and fear for tinnitus", a lot of mechanical ANTI-ANXIETY agents!!! And this even could have a long standing duration in your brain (emotions areas). Maybe you will never forvige/forgot the robbery but with time, thanks to your progress, you will be able to say "ok it's the past" and your mind will work in the directions that you give.
What do the people like tinnitus suffers??? We protect the ears from loud noise, we are scared by ototoxic medications, we avoid loud locations (and we became sad because our social life is beginning a crap) and more others, expecially the comprehensible obsession of looking for a drug, for the relief that we need.
A continous Fear,anxiety and preventions that put our brain into a fatal loop. The brain go into the famous vicious circle and the neurons firings a lot looking for a "solutions"! Infact the tinnitus is also hypotized as a mechanism of compensation of the brain after an auditory nerve damage but the error of some scientists stay HERE. Is not only the nerve damage in itself but all the trip from the periphery (ears) to the dorsal coclear nucleus (deep brain) that crosses and influence various parts of brain. In the tinnitus conditions we don't know which is the way to "buy" a "new silence" expecially thanks to our doctors that too much times say that there aren't cure for it... learn to deal with it! Oh yeas, like when i sayd to my brother "please... for the wellbeing of your healtf (that is a good and rationale suggestion even accepted by him)... quit smoking" and after 2 minutes he is smoking hidden himself in the bath hahahah.

Ok back on topic, erase fear and anxiety for tinnitus, better to say How to erase? Personally i do the psichoterapy for this moment in order to create a "new model" of myself and hoping with time to erase those 2 bastards too much important factors from my mind conscoius and incounscious... during the sleep! Look better here https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/dirk-de-ridder-dreams-can-unlock-ways-to-cure.2122/

This is real: when in my dreams the tinnitus is present and i "live" a disconfort situation, when i wake up, most of the time the tinnitus is not present. "The prediction error"

too many times I was wrong, considering psychotherapy an inappropriate approach, and thus hurting myself with crazy sought pharmacological attempts searching on google and various forums.


Some people (that don't suffer of tinnitus) many times sayd, in sad moments, when their minds are close alone.... "oh what damn silence... It is so deafening". I would have a desert eagle cal. 50 when they say this...

Dear @Zora you are right, 2 different part of the brain, but the brain is a single organ and the signals (correct or wrong) travel in all directions influencing the whole brain areas.

http://bpsmedicine.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1751-0759-4-9

also depression; http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1388245708000461

Don't forget that autifony was a drug based on the schizophrenia mechanism because it is a conditions where the person hear or even watch something that don't exist. So phantoms like tinnitus are phantoms.

http://www.autifony.com/autifony-science.asp

Schizophrenia
Given Autifony’s focus on modulation of Kv3 channels, which have also been implicated in other neurological and psychiatric disorders, there are opportunities for Autifony to investigate these other indications with compounds with different profiles.

We have identified Kv3 potassium channels as new targets for the treatment of schizophrenia.Their importance lies in their role in the control of parvalbumin-positive (PV+) interneurons that are thought to be dysfunctional in schizophrenia (Lewis et al, 2012, Cortical parvalbumin interneurons and cognitive dysfunction in schizophrenia. Trends in Neurosciences, 35(1), 57-67). We propose that positive modulation of Kv3 channels will enhance PV+ interneuron function and thus reduce positive, negative, and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia.

In 2013, Autifony was awarded Innovate UK (previously known as Technology Strategy Board) funding to progress over the next two years the development of a candidate drug for the treatment of schizophrenia. Autifony are working with academic collaborators in Manchester and Newcastle Universities to obtain a greater understanding of the role of Kv3 channels in schizophrenia and to explore the potential benefit of Kv3 modulators in the treatment of this serious psychiatric disorder. In 2015, Autifony was awarded further funding from Innovate UK to continue this successful preclinical collaboration and to take the programme into clinical trials, in collaboration with the University of Manchester and the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology & Neuroscience, Kings College London.


bestens

Joan

p.s. @Lance plese let me know if you have some news. I have somthing to discuss with you. Thanks

 

I haven't heard back from Dr Merel Kindt from the Memory Hacker show again.
I feel fortunate that she replied back the one time she did and now she is aware of T victims.

Thank you all for the robust thoughts.
Potassium Channels, depression, Kv3 channels, nerve damage, Anxiety, Fear, etc ...

At the end of the day when my ears are hissing, all I can do is take some vitamins and sit down and listen to PINK NOISE on my headset.

Anybody can send me any thoughts you have.
We're here to help each other.

Another thing I recently started is journaling.
Get a hardback sketchbook and write and draw diagrams for ANYTHING you learn about T.
Put it on paper.
That helps project the issue onto another object and keeps your mind busy on a task, which reduces the noticeability of T.

 

I try to distract myself by watching Netflix, and playing apps on my Kindle Fire like Classic Words (a Scrabble game) and picture puzzles. I have to focus to do these games so it helps to put the tinnitus more in the background of my mind. Never used apps until a couple months ago and now can't live without them.

 

Total Recall