Proposing a Phone Number System to Prevent People from Harming Themselves

Maybe Markku and other top people could just give a special privilege to members to post their number on the forum with their name after proven trustworthy with their knowledge .
And a Badge under their name like -PHONE BUDDY.......love glynis just an idea but members can swap numbers by pm anyway

 

@glynis
I like the idea of putting a badge with "phone buddy" under their avatar, because this way people get to know the person they are calling, their point of view, their level of knowledge.
I think everybody has inherently formed an opinion for himself about almost each member by what they post, but after setting up this phone system, (project that I am a little afraid is not going to happen) is good to remind under the avatar that that person is among the volunteers.

 

This is a good idea, and is something the American Tinnitus Association already provides in the US. In my early stages, I used this to get in contact with someone local to me. There are several audiologists in the list as well.

http://www.ata.org/managing-your-tinnitus/support-network
http://www.ata.org/managing-your-tinnitus/support-network/help-network-listing

-Mike

 

@Sailboardman

If not all disclaimers are bulletproof in a court of law, than our disclaimer must be made to be of the bulletproof kind, with the help of a one consultation with a lawyer, which is not for free, true, but one consultation doesn't cost a fortune either.

"Funny" how we are concerned that we may held liable in case of a T sufferer's suicide, but the doctors who tell their patients "live with it" , "there is no cure", also the ATA which had some time ago on their front page a lovely Nocebo: "There is no cure...yet" don't lose a minute of sleeping.

I think that when a person with T ends up committing suicide IS MAINLY because of what he was told by the DOCTORS about his particular case, taking into consideration all his tests and medical details, not because of what some other T sufferer said, which has another type of T and knows only about the T distress and methods of coping, not about the medical details of the person in need.

 

@sailboardman, I'm in agreement with you. I believe that anyone on here who is talking about potentially hurting themselves, needs to be directed to mental or medical professional help. I'm not even entirely sure that talking with someone who is currently struggling with T is the right person to speak to at a very low moment. If anyone on here deals with times that low (i.e. thinks about hurting themselves) then they should have some kind of hotline on speed-dial, and anyone who talks to someone at that particularly low moment would be best instructed to guide the person to professional help.

 

I'd be more then happy to help any way I can
Just to lend comfort to someone to get through the day would be a blessing for all.

Carlos

 

I think it should be made clear that it is only a chat buddy line for friendship .
1.talk about tinnitus
2. Not to give out medication information
3...any cry for help to be refured to their Doctor,emergency care,999,111 etc....lots of love glynis

 

Sorry I agree the BTA are useless and non of them suffer from T and they only work Monday to Friday office hours. Totally useless

 

I have alot of experience with this directly. All I can say is it was extremely, extremely emotionally difficult and took a toll on my own mental health. It is not easy. So for all you members going in, know that it can ultimately also affect you significantly. Just want to share.

Also because of my past experiences I know I am unable to provide support in this capacity. Truly individuals need the support and it's great idea, but ultimately they absolutely need medical attention. Maybe place a limit on the amount of calls per person? For instance if they call 5 times with serious suicidal ideation and you aren't " reaching them" you then kindly tell them that they call their local Mental Health agency etc..

Something like that anyways..

Also there are some (sadly) very sick individuals who use this kind of service for ongoing personal motives that aren't always very good....So also beware of that, especially the women.

Good Luck Everyone and good for thosr stepping up

 

@eric peterson

A person who is at a very low moment is not a prisoner and is allowed to speak with anybody he pleases, including another person with T.
After having such a conversation at his own free will, he is free to continue to seek professional help. It was established already that if the person continues to want to hurt himself during the conversation, he will be directed to call the emergency number for the professional help.

If your doctors were so great, may I ask what you are doing here?

There is a part in the T sufferer's needs that is not covered by the "professional help", and that is what this support group was created for.

People in distress need to VENT !
That helps them A LOT.

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY COMMITTED SUICIDE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY FELT ALONE, BECAUSE THEY HAD NOBODY TO TALK TO, (and I am including here people without the tiniest physical problem) AND YOU ARE AGAINST A PROJECT THAT WOULD HELP THAT LONELY SOUL TO FIND SOMEBODY TO TALK TO, CAUSE A "PROFESSIONAL HELPER" IS CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO TALK TO HIM AT THE EXACT MOMENT HE NEEDS THE MOST, WHICH MAY BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT?

Who would listen, in an understanding way, to what that person needs to vent about at 3 am? An ENT? A TMJ specialist? A psychiatrist? A psychologist? Not even a nurse will do that.
Or maybe somebody who works for a "life crisis and suicide prevention hotline", you think. Those will quickly say that they have other phone calls waiting, and if you call again another day you will find another person, so you have to start all over again with your story, no continuation.

If somebody can't sleep at 3 am because of his T and the doctors already finished with him saying "go home and learn to live with it", and somebody who knows and understands T is willing to listen, not forbidding him to continue to seek professional help, what is the problem?

Are you afraid that the volunteer will say negative things to him, like "it will never go away, learn to live with it"? The doctors are doing that!!!!!!

More than that, if "learning to live with it" (that means giving up our search for a cure) is what we have to do, as doctors say, then who is the best person to help us learning that, if not a person who already learned?

 

I am use to phone calls from verry distressed people with tinnitus and. In a emotional state .
It is not something you can do lightly if vulnerable yourself.
Also you could get a troll phoning you and basically a prank call set out to cause upset and devastation to the caller leaving you upset and in a state .

***If it's just a friendship buddy call then I think it's just best leve it to members to swap numbers by PM.. and a buddy badge under your name would let members know your ok with taking calls and people can tues their own buddy to contact who they know on the forum.
Again friendship buddies not medical and must always refer them to professionals if suicidal etc.***

I have had a few calls since been on here after support and happy to do it and they remain confidential as always and by doing it by pm gives You an idea who's calling you and less likely a rogue troll....lots of love glynis

 

@Markku
I think the simpler form that @glynis is suggesting is the best way to go about it, at least for now.
People who are willing to volunteer will announce you, you put the "Phone Buddy" badge under their avatar, and the member of the TT, who knows he is going through rough patches from time to time, can PM the preferred Phone Buddy, or preferred Phone Buddies, to find out their contact data and hours of availability.

This way those phone calls are behind the scenes of TT, no list on the front page (which would have been accessible only with a password to avoid prank calls and with that disclaimer), no legal aspects to be cleared here by TT, just legal private phone calls, simple "friendship calls", as @glynis calls them (her experience shows), in other words.. no headaches. Each person will make his personal list.

There are also drawbacks of this simpler way to go about it (I will talk about them maybe on another day, as i got tired now) but also has many advantages, and is easy to put it in practice.

Evrika!

 

The idea is great and I admire those noble members who want to offer such service. I have done this in an unofficial way in another forum. After exchanging personal messging with the person and if there is further need, I have talked to such individuals. One guy was calling from Toronto. He said he already wrote his will and that he informed his wife that he couldn't live with the condition any more and would jump any day. I tell you, it is quite emotionally draining and the call lasted a long while not knowing if you can save such person. My wife had been alerted about such a call before hand and it was from a guy. So she supported it without issue even the long call got her alarmed a bit that if this type of service continue, how would it impact our family life.

There was another call from a lady lasting till 2 AM our time, and that one caused my wife unease and we ended up with a bit of argument over whether I should continue on. Our spouses may understand the need to help people but they may not support an ongoing support which can impact the family life and schedules, and which may have legal consequence. In the other forum when consulting with their admins about what to do with phone support, one admin who is more experienced on offering counseling did warn me about emotional dependency of some members, that they can call you frequently whenever they are in a bad mood whether you are ready or not. So the need and feeling of our immediate family members must be addressed too. I guess if you are single and unattached, it will be much easier to make such a decision.

Yes, the call can be emotionally draining and you are always afraid the wrong words were said that could cause the person to go ahead with doing the unthinkable, therefore causing you a life-time of guilt that you had contributed to their ultimate demise. For example, if the callers are looking for you to reassure that T will go away (otherwise he/she would not be able to live with it), and you give them a straight forward answer that most likely it won't go away but that there are ways to cope. Because they so trust your opinion and they are so desperate, perhaps they don't want a REACTION solution and mentally insist T must go away or else, then your honest answer may push them over the edge. You may offer them medical options if they don't want to wait for habituation, such as taking trobalt. But then are you sure you are in that capacity to advise that drug, when we have no medical training and when the drug isn't even intended for treating T? There are the legal issues that @Sailboardman mentions that are for real if bad things happen and we can't ignore such reality.

So I think each member should decide what is the best way he/she can serve the T community. Each member comes with the desire to help, but each has different background and circumstances in life. Member should be free to participate or not and not be called out for taking his/her position one way or other.

Perhaps TT should provide a sticky thread at the top of the support board like the Positivity Thread, with guided steps about really suicidal members, such as filtering whether such member has called the doctors or local suicide hot lines, whether they have talked about such suicide ideations to their loved ones, and whether they are emotionally stable enough to participate in a CHAT session. If they do, then invite them to chat and notify members who have volunteered to join in the chat. Collective counseling may be even more powerful and it doesn't have to be depending only on one member's skill of counseling. Didn't we do that recently for a lady who posted a good-bye thread? Also even such chatting should be watched by TT attentively, because some members may be willing to help but may lack the patience.

I vividly remember one member who was trying to help a suicidal member in a support thread on the other forum a while ago. After so many members have counselled, the suicidal members still repeated the same line of argument, as if the advices given were of no value to him, and keeping on stating that his life isn't worth it. Then the unthinkable thing happened - one counselling member just lost the patience and posted 'Then why don't you just go ahead kill yourself'. Wow. I had to immediately inform the forum admin to delete such post. No every one is trained to be a crisis counsellor and do we have a means on TT to filter such member who is eager to help but lacks the skill to deal with a suicidal person?

Anyway, after such chat sessions, then TT should ask the member if he/she needs more private messaging. If so volunteers can be alerted about this. If there is further need for only personal call, then we know this person may be so emotional unstable and truly suicidal, and at least we know a bit about the person's emotional state as well as the detail of his/her T through the filtering process. Then whoever volunteering can focus the call on the specifics of the real problem. This also can limit the duration of the call instead of dragging for hours and more members can afford to do this. I am sure most members can do such call once a while even if it is long and repeated call, but to be an on going service, it needs more structured planning. Just a thought and my humble 2 cents.

 

all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing........if us who have it and understand don't do anything than who ?

 

How about a buddy system?? At least to begin.... Until we can have a better/secure way.?? We can pair with someone and exchange numbers privately and when the need comes we at least have one number? Or it could be done between 3 people in case one person is not available then there's a second number to call. Just brain storming...

 

Why not BUDDY CHAT? Like when you need help online someone could have a private window on TT...Just an idea...

 

I think for now the buddy badge would be good under names who want to be a buddy.

Anyone needing someone to talk to can contact their preferred buddy by pm for their number for a chat and its thats simple.

Rules to become a buddy by Markku etc

1. Tinnitus talk and normal chatting
2 . Anyone in a state who clearly needs medical help get referred to doctors,hospital,111,mental health,MIND,Samaritans,etc...lots of love glynis

 

@Markku
And, continuing the idea of a buddy badge, I thought of a verrrry simple way to display the availability for talking on the phone of that buddy:

Each buddy should display a mood. (like I have the mood "sad", for the time being).
If the buddy is available for talking, he should display the mood "chatty" from the list of moods.
If the buddy is busy and not available, he should display the mood "busy" from the list of moods.

And I thought of a way for a member to find their buddies also very easy, but it contains a little compromise: the buddies must change their pseudonyms, adding the number 1 or another character, @, for example, in front of their names on TT.
The member interested in calling a buddy when in need, will add those buddies to the list with the people they follow (naturally), so when they go to their profile and expand the "following" list, as people appear in alphabetical order, thanks to that extra character in front of the buddies' names, the list of the buddies will appear on top of the rest of the list with the other people they follow.

 

@Markku
Regarding the "legal issues":
while the phone buddies don't pretend to be able to prevent suicide in a suicidal person,
nor they pretend to be able to support somebody who can't have their spirits lifted no matter what they are told,
and they will direct the caller to dial the emergency number if the caller is in really bad shape,
all the liabilities will disappear into thin air.

If somebody offs himself while speaking with a mere "buddy" that doesn't guarantee or promise anything, that "buddy" cannot be held liable.

Of that I am sure without having to be an attorney of "international law".

Things are simple and normal, let's not complicate them unnecessarily and start this.

 

@billie48,

Very well said. You have personal experience with this, which is more than 2 cents worth.

 

Ok so let's just do nothing then, I mean if that's what you want, as for other people you have my number feel free to contact or call me whenever you want or need.

Honestly so much negativity on this forums sometimes,we should be trying to help each other regardless of all the bs , because of that same bs is that pharmaceutical companies and what not sometimes get no results

 

I'm in agreement with @glynis here on the buddy idea. I don't think we could even begin to act as counsellors but to be a friendly voice / text chat / Skype / meetup to people is a nice start. We all have different thresholds of patience so if we start out easy enough we can find our feet. Definitely need to draw something up so everyone knows what they are getting into first and can agree that it works for them.

@billie48 Thank you for your experiences, incredibly useful. I like the idea of the top sticky in support being something for desperate members, something to try and help. We can have the don't panic guide their too. It can be incredibly daunting to delve into the threads, where you see other people suffering and it can feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

 

@Dana,

You say you're not an attorney, but make definate statements about knowing legal liabilty issues, with absolute certainty.

Therefore, I vote for you in, for heading up this entire program and making you the point person, on all the legal ramifications, that may arise. You are obviously, well educated, knowledgeable and extremely qualified, in this particular field.

 

@Sailboardman

On the contrary, what I say is that some things that are common sense can be known even by somebody who doesn't have a law degree.

"Program"? What "program"? In case you didn't notice the "big program" to merely swap telephone numbers via PM went to the chute, because of the "legal ramifications".

Now I became afraid to answer the phone. What if somebody commits suicide while on the phone with me? Before I wasn't afraid of any liability, but I can see how being a forum member changed everything.

But at least something came out of this discussion: you and Billie48, swapping congratulations.. Beautiful!

 

well you all have my number so call me if you need or contact me, I rather try and do something even stall the other person trying to off him/herself while the police arrives than do nothing, I'm not that inhuman as to let someone harm themselves out of fear of legal ramifications if any

 

My worry is much more that someone without specific training and experience in this regard, may actually inadvertently escalate the situation, than help it. For example, I have no experience with working in an air traffic control tower, and if you made me do it, I might be likely to cause more crashes than would occur if the tower was entirely unmanned.

 

well like I said if someone needs me,I'm there for you

 

@linearb

Who that "someone without specific training and experience in this regard" would be?
Someone who has fought for years and is still fighting with T from the inside, the most "hands-on" experience one can have?

And who that person with the specific training and experience would be?
The resident who received a 30 second training to tell a person with T to "learn to live with it"?
The person from BTA who was trained in 10 seconds to say (only if the call is made between certain hours) that "T will diminish in time, so don't worry"?
The person trained at a life crisis line to repeat the same script from a page?

The real experienced one is the T veteran, and for the rest of the "experienced specialists" "tinnitus 24/7" is just an expression that they can't even imagine what it refers to, not that they care, either.

 

Be very very careful please! Some veterans may be be fine but there are some severely non stable veterans on this forum.....and what constitutes a veteran - someone with it for one year or ten years or 20 years.....although I do agree with you re the other organisations who do not have a clue....