Quieten — App by Julian Cowan Hill — Scam? Reviews?

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by ajc, Dec 4, 2019.

    1. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      Is this Quieten app yet another scam, or if not a 100% scam, yet another attempt at ripping desperate tinnitus sufferers off?

      For those who don't know... Julian Cowan Hill also has a private practice in London. He charges very high fees for his "tinnitus consultations". I don't understand why some people like his style. He claims tinnitus can be cured which is UNTRUE.

      quieten-tinnitus-app.png

      Julian Cowan Hill got back to silence after twenty years of tinnitus. A combination of body-based therapies and practices to settle the nervous system, developing a clear understanding of how this symptom works and finding solid reassurance and advice on what helps let go of tinnitus gets you firmly onto the path to recovery. Quieten is packed full of practical advice, understanding, comforting information and many tips that will benefit you.​
       
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    2. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      It started
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bad luck
      It would be interesting to know how much money JCH takes in with the app. An app might seem to give him credibility. Think about the millions of tinnitus sufferers. I wonder what percentage Apple makes off each sale?

      The Quieten name sounds like a scam. Surprising he can get an app that easily. I wonder if he rings his cash register daily?
       
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    3. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      Apple takes 30% of each sale.
       
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    4. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      If Julian Cowan Hill tried such antics in the State of Illinois, I would submit a succinct but detailed report about him to our Attorney General's Fraud Investigation Bureau.

      One of his 153 YouTube Sites actually has over 200,000 hits. I scrolled down through the commentaries, and 46 respondents said that:
      • 1) His recommendations were essentially contentless and without substance; could he specifically define what exactly his treatment towards a cure consisted of?
      I personally find such terminology he uses such as "body based versus heady based","the buzzy charge in your nervous system", etc. to be laughable.
      • 2) Various respondents reported that they followed his advice (which is frankly no more than neutralizing your rage/panic reaction), with absolutely no alteration in their tinnitus.
      • 3) Still others accused him of completely inventing his personal testimony that his tinnitus was extremely severe; one respondent said that "I don't believe you ever had this condition."
      • 4) One respondent implied that as a Vietnam Vet who was near a detonated explosive with consequential lifelong tinnitus, he was insulted by Hill's insistence that he has a cure for all forms of this.
      • 5) Another respondent called him "pompous"; one said "does this guy ever shut up?" Someone else characterized his commentary as "baloney".
      On another one of his YouTube Sites he has been called a "fraud", "condescending and demeaning", and "an English Prick."

      On another site, various respondents had concluded that his book is nothing more than New Age nonsense, and that it is ridiculous to claim that Cranial Sacral massage will cure tinnitus.

      I find it incredible that he appears totally undeterred and uninfluenced by this onslaught of visceral criticism. If I ever met him I would without hesitation tell him to his face that he is a cheap, unscrupulous, opportunistic quack.
       
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    5. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      We need to organize and take down Julian Cowan Hill and Liam Boehm Contrast style.

      We may not be able to affect the speed at which medicines become available but we sure as hell can make things hard on these fricken assholes.

      They should NOT be making money off of this unless they can 100% deliver a cure. They are just profiteers.
       
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    6. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      It's too bad they're literally impossible to be taken down. You can't get them booted off YouTube. They will always have audience. Even if you were personally able to talk to everyone who is considering buying their stuff, you wouldn't be able make all of them see what's wise.

      :(
       
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    7. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To JohnAdams:

      There must be some sort of Government Bureau in Hill's section of London (or wherever) that can review all of his commentaries and determine if he his violating any Standards of Professional and/or Business conduct.

      As I said, if he was in Chicago, please note that I was a Commercial Property Insurance Adjuster for over 30 years.

      I know attorneys who have been employed by the State of Illinois and would know who to seek out for conducting such official inquiries.

      And to ajc's insightful point:

      From other comments on his YouTube sites, there are many people who have become so bewildered, desperate and frantic by this condition that they are easily seduced by his rhetoric.
       
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    8. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      We can download the app and leave negative reviews.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    9. Cape crusader
      Cool

      Cape crusader Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/18/18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction ear wax removal
      Look, most of these are free. If I get a few good pointers from either of them... what’s the big deal? Maybe they truly want to help us cope.

      I am hesitant to believe that they both completely eliminated their tinnitus.
       
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    10. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      It started
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bad luck
      What if 100,000 people purchased his 1 month subscription. That’s a lot of dough. That asshole will be laughing all the way to the bank.

      93CB6E7E-E934-47DF-9693-453D1A2F454D.png
       
    11. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To JohnAdams:

      Instruct me about how to do that and I will paste every entry I have made and leave it on his app.
       
    12. lcj

      lcj Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
      I feel like I have to step in and say something here, as I am probably the only person in this thread so far that has interacted with Julian. He is many things, but not a scammer.

      Julian has two degrees/certifications. He has a Master's degree in psychotherapy and is trained also as a cranial sacral practitioner. Whether you believe his therapy works or doesn't work is irrelevant to the fact that the rates he charges are average for someone with his background and education. He just happened to choose to specialize in tinnitus.

      I really dislike this attitude of taking down practitioners who specialize in tinnitus and calling them scammers, because it discourages anyone from wanting to specialize in tinnitus. Which is exactly what we need. More practitioners who want to specialize in tinnitus.

      In addition, the same level of scrutiny is not applied to any other therapists. Do you get angry that your marriage and family therapist didn't save your marriage? Do you get upset that your psychotherapist didn't cure your depression? The nature of the disease is that no one understands it completely. However, we should stop penalizing people for trying to help just because they happen to make a living from it. Unless their rates are outside of the normal scope that their education/certification/expertise would merit.

      If Julian was a scammer, then he would not have needed to attend the recent tinnitus research conference in London, which I know he did. He would also not have needed to reach out to the BTA to apply for a grant for a cranial sacral clinical trial for the treatment of tinnitus (not as a practitioner, but to collect survey data from other cranial sacral practitioners). He did not receive funding from the BTA but he was determined to do the trial, so he has reached out to another medical association instead to secure funding for this clinical trial.

      His app may be dumb, and his therapy may not be helpful to many but it doesn't mean it's a scam.
       
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    13. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      I've actually spoken to Julian COwan Hill, at some inconsequential but nonzero cost to myself.

      I don't agree with all his ideas but I think a subset of them have been substantially helpful to some significant number of people; I also think he genuinely believes what he says. So, that makes him a zealot which means you need to treat things as suspect, but I think he's a net positive, and the idea that anything he's doing is illegal or actionable is claughable to me.
      Leave all the bad reviews and negative comments you want; calling for someone to be de-platformed because they have ideas you don't agree with is gross.

      edit: also with the number of downloads he has he's not going to recoup the cost of development this millennium even if they all subscribe twice, and this appears to largely be a front-end for his video content, which means people subscribing are just getting more of that; people know exactly what they're getting, I think?
       
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    14. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      It started
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bad luck
      Having a 1 month and a 1 year subscription is totally laughable. Almost everyone else has a one time limitless subscription on apps or kindle books. I’ve heard he seems like a nice guy and believes what he says from people that have done Skype session(s) with him, but that’s about it.

      He’s not that much different than Liam Boehm in all reality. They both have had tinnitus and seemingly don’t have it anymore, but see the easy profit potential of desperate people. Kevin Hogan and Dr. Wilden could probably be included in that group. They all were sufferers and turned into profiteers at some point. Not good.
       
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    15. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      There is a lot of cognitive dissonance here. Many are jumping on this like a pack of savage dogs but give Dr Shim and others a free pass, for example. It makes absolutely no sense. Why don’t you all feel the need to post comments about Dr Shim and various others on social media?

      Is it because people like Dr Wilden, Dr Shemesh, Dr Shim, etc, charge multiple thousands? Does that make them appear more legit or something? I don’t get it.

      Why get so angry about some small-time people when there are others out there charging an order of magnitude more? All of their “treatments” are backed by a similar amount of evidence, so surely you should treat them all the same?

      PS, as far as JCH goes, I’ll admit his videos helped me to relax in the very early days and it didn’t cost me a penny. It’s all too easy to end up in an anxiety loop with tinnitus and it’s hard to break free from it. I also remember when @carlover said he went to see Julien and he said he didn’t charge him because he was already doing a body-based therapy or something along those lines. He just told him to carry on doing what he was doing. As for the app, he won’t get anywhere near 100,000 subs, that will never happen. There aren’t even 30,000 members here yet (after nearly 9 years), and the ratio of benefactors to members is pitifully low. Acquiring paid subs is notoriously difficult and he’ll be lucky to get over a hundred.

      I don’t agree with everything he says by a long shot, but I do think he has a calming influence on some sufferers who are early into their tinnitus.
       
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    16. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To lcj, linearb and Ed209:

      Remember that Julian Cowan Hill stated in two YouTube videos that:
      If you take a piece of tape and write the word "Love" or "Hate" and affix it to the outside of a steel pressure cooker, the force of the presence of the word will penetrate the steel and actually alter the molecular composition of the substance inside that cooker (the examples he gives are ice and rice).

      Charging money for such ludicrous commentary, would, I believe, be subject to the definition of criminally fraudulent practices in the State of Illinois. (This reminds me of the phony psychics who will, for a fee, tell you what the winning lottery numbers will be).

      If this does not indicate his blatantly fraudulent tendencies, I honestly do not know what does.

      Also, I clearly cannot communicate with anyone who would lend credence to such laughably (and frighteningly) ridiculous commentary.

      There is something very dirty about a "practitioner" who would take advantage of a tinnitus sufferer's desperation with such quackery.
       
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    17. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I revert back to what I said above, namely: “I don’t agree with everything he says by a long shot.” I wasn’t even aware of him saying what you just said. The point of what I said above seems to have been lost, though.

      In my post above, I asked why everyone here seems to focus all their attention on certain individuals, but not others? It’s hypocritical and shows a lot of cognitive dissonance. Dr Shim, for example, has probably made enough money from Tinnitus Talk to buy a Lamborghini or two. The same applies to Dr Shemesh and Dr Wilden and no doubt to some others as well. But people seem to be more concerned about the $300 Julian might make over the course of a year from some app. I’m just saying it doesn’t make any sense!

      Why get so angry about what some people do, but not others? Especially when the others in this case could financially ruin people and potentially cause them other health issues.
       
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    18. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To Ed209:

      You bring up the very salient point that we should be aware of all of the myriad, all-too-numerous tinnitus-cure opportunistic quacks who proliferate the Internet.
       
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    19. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      That’s exactly what I’m saying. Don’t just take someone’s word for something, especially when your health and money is at stake. I find it interesting how random the selection process seems to be when it comes to going after so-called scammers on here.

      Some of the most unethical practices out there are never mentioned. That’s what I find really bizarre.
       
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    20. Mister Muso
      Scurvy

      Mister Muso Member

      Location:
      Scotland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007 / April 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Just a thought: if someone takes out a subscription to the Headspace or Calm apps, and it doesn't make them feel more calm, does that person start calling for such apps to be taken down?

      If it helps just a few people, then good for them. No one is holding a gun to your head to make you subscribe to anything.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
    21. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Oh yeah that's some pure new age metaphysical bullcrap. This guy is a complete idiot and obviously loves himself and money enough to make money selling this nonsense.
       
    22. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      You wrote Dr. Shim 3 times in that post and this thread has absolutely nothing to do with him. You really do have some serious mental problems. Seek help. NOBODY is promoting Dr. Shim's clinic you dork.
       
    23. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      You mean the fact that this forum will jump down Julian's throat any chance given, but a lot of people will also fall on a sword to defend people who post completely unscientific "audio therapies" mixed in with commentary about how the government is building a massive weather-and-mind-control satellite grid? ;)
      Okay, I am just going to reiterate my statement that I think this is a laughable enough idea that I am not going to respond to it in any more detail, except that I will gleefully await the outcome of your expensive and fruitless lawsuits.

      I saw lawsuits even though you said "criminal", because there is absolutely zero chance you're going to get a prosecutor to take this on as a criminal case.

      To my broader point, again: Julian has some unscientific ideas. Some people find him very distasteful. Some people find him helpful. The fact that he's been at it this long and has this many hours into it is pretty solid evidence that he's not getting rich off it; I'd be pretty surprised if his income matches the average worthless 25 year old web developer.

      Meanwhile, countless multimillion dollar corporations are willfully, wantonly and effectively doing things to loosen legislation, making it ever easier to have higher noise limits in urban and industrial zones, and ever more potentially ear-damaging chemicals floating around the environment.
       
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    24. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      But R. David Case isn't selling anything whatsoever so your comparison is dumb.
       
    25. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Fair; on the other hand, Julian has hundreds of hours of free content, so it's very safe to assume that anyone who is going to pay for it, knows exactly what they are getting, and wants it.

      There are plenty of people selling content I don't agree with, from extremely polarized political podcasts, to things that are also unscientific (Reiki, etc). And you know what? Even though Reiki and homeopathy are complete bullshit, the placebo effect is strong so some people subjectively believe they have a higher quality of life from these things. I support the right

      A $30 a year subscription isn't breaking anyone's back, and no one is being fleeced because, just like the R. David Case content -- I think it's painfully obvious to anyone of even moderate intelligence what's going on in both cases, and I think that consenting adults should be able to pursue and even spend money on things that are unscientific or come with statements that I personally think are ludicrous.

      Anyway, even though I disagree with him on fact on a bunch of stuff, I basically like Julian so I will throw him a 1-year sub to try to slightly countermand the backlash he's likely to get as a result of this thread ;) This is america, vote with your wallet and your feet
       
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    26. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To linearb:

      Since you are still such an ardent supporter of JCH, perhaps you should consider affixing large tapes to both sides of your head with the words "SUPERLOVE" written in black Magic Marker on them.

      If the force contained within these words can penetrate a quarter inch of steel, then I am sure that they can penetrate the thickness of your cranium and cure your tinnitus.

      I would be curious about your explanation to whomever might inquire regarding the purpose of these tapes.
       
    27. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      @JohnAdams

      Nobody is promoting JCH or any other therapies here though, either. I’m merely saying it’s hypocritical, and very biased, the way some are called out, but not others. Why leave bad reviews for a small-time app but say nothing about a number of Drs who are known to be highly unethical? There are people losing their life savings and being plunged into crippling debt, but I guess that’s ok?
      Maybe it should?

      I’m trying to understand why everyone gets so angry about JCH, but totally ignores what the people I’ve mentioned above are doing? Where’s the sense in that?
      Wasn’t you recently talking about putting stents in your Eustachian tubes so you could fill your middle ear with a food additive whilst hanging upside down? After reading that, I could equally say the same thing to you. I’m not sure why you have to make everything so personal all the time. You can’t help but throw out insults.
       
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    28. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      You're a nut.
       
    29. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      That's a very comprehensive answer to my questions. Thanks.
       
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    30. Fifth Business

      Fifth Business Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Deafening applause (ppl clap loudly after reading my posts)
      I don't discount critiques of JCH as far as him having one foot planted in the realm of new-age (albeit... earnest?) quackery are concerned. But it's striking that the people most enraged by him get equally Mad Online when they read habituation posts in the 'success stories' sub.
       
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