Quieten — App by Julian Cowan Hill — Scam? Reviews?

Just thought I'd make a quick mention that I had one of those rare cranial sacral sessions yesterday that gave me pretty dramatic improvement. I'd gotten one of my worst spikes ever about a week ago, which was so bad it left me with a chronic low-grade burning sensation in my ears and back of my head, leaving me feeling very unsettled, to say the least.

After I explained what was happening to my therapist, he made some incredibly gentle adjustments on the inside of my mouth (toward the back where the molars are, and in close proximity to my ear that was the worst). He then gently put another finger in my ear, so that his fingertips were probably only a a 1/4" away from each other.

He left them there for about a minute, and it was during this time I went into a deep relaxation, and it felt like my ears and brain were no longer on fire. It was like some kind of frenetic static in my auditory was somehow greatly relieved. My tinnitus and hyperacusis have been at least 50% better today, and I'm not feeling a constant state of agitation like I'd been for the past week.

I know some people will never believe there could be any efficacy to cranial sacral work (apparently because there's no scientific backing for it), and will insist it's probably only some kind of placebo effect. To each their own. But I do wish those who don't believe there's anything to it would at least show a little more tolerance toward those who do.

 

Not that I'm trying to make JCH rich, but let me pose two scenarios:

1. A man devises a program for tinnitus that helps take the edge off the symptoms in 25% of tinnitus patients. While not all patients are helped, and even those that are helped don't experience a complete cure, the man is overrun with interest, helps thousands, and receives considerable funding from several health agencies to try to further develop and improve his program.

2. A man devises a program for tinnitus that helps take the edge off the symptoms in 25% of tinnitus patients. Due to the fact that he charges his patients money, he is ridiculed and criticized. Very few patients ever seek his help despite the possibility that they may be in the 25% that he can help. Because he needs to make a living and doesn't see financial viability down this path, he gives up on his program and opens a coffee shop instead.

Which one of these scenarios do you think is likely to encourage more work focused on treating tinnitus?

 

Response from Julian Cowan Hill on using Quieten for farts:

Method 1 Minimizing the Sound and Smell of Your Fart

1. Release the fart slowly. Rather than release the fart quickly, which will likely cause a loud fart noise, take your time and release the fart slowly. ...
2. Cough loudly or make a loud noise. ...
3. Walk as you fart. ...
4. Leave the room or area. ...
5. Spray air freshener.

 

On the Google Play store, Quieten already has over 100+ installs and 7 five-star reviews.

Brain dead people reviewing it and harming other tinnitus sufferers.

 

Why don't you just rate the app 1 star and call it a day then?

 

To MattS;

Please see respondent Corinna's lengthy report on 12/15/19 regarding her two personal visits to Hill and how psychologically injurious they were for her.

He is an utterly unscrupulous quack with easily disprovable, deleterious junk science.
He is as much of a fraud as those phony psychics who for a fee will tell you what the winning lotto numbers will be.

I and other numerous, attentive respondents have already posted several entries that elucidate this.

The worst aspect to his quackery is that the more people who are bamboozled by him, the less need will be felt to concentrate on a legitimate, scientifically verifiable treatment.

Also, those fees he charges ($156.00 for the first visit) even by Chicago cost-of-living standards are laughably outrageous.

 

Unfortunately these types tend to be willing to continue their operations until they have nowhere to go such as when hearing medicine finally comes. Consequently I also think that there will be a larger advance of their predatory activity as we possibly come closer to getting some good news with medicine. My view is that these types are going to do all that they can to try to gain additional business for as long as they are able. I reckon if FX-322 and/or OTO-413 show some benefit relating to tinnitus then they are cooked. Even OTO-313 showed benefit which is more than what these dills' words can say.

 

I charge £80 per hour which is normal for therapists in London. My sliding scale goes down to £40 for people going through a tough time. I developed QUIETEN to help people stay clear of negative and upsetting messages that you find on YouTube. I am very aware how just one negative comment about tinnitus can tip people into terror. I have had several people who have come along with tinnitus that developed purely as a result of seeing negative information online. I make a tiny bit of money out of this app but nothing that will cover the huge cost of setting it up in the first place. I have had people come and see me saying the app has helped them get better and they are no longer suicidal and now have got there life back and are doing really well.

Here are some more comments from people:

 

OMG, I can't believe you have the gall to post again on this Forum after the number of reports we have received from Tinnitus Talk subscribers regarding your sheer charlatanism, quack pseudoscience, insufferable insensitivity to the individual needs of patients, etc.

My opinion of you was formed when in three videos you said that writing the word LOVE on a piece of tape and affixing it to the outside of a steel cooker would enable the alleged "presence" of love contained in the word to penetrate the steel and improve the molecular composition of the substance contained in the cooker (the examples you gave were ice and rice).

You also said that an adverse outcome would occur if the word HATE were used.

What reaction to you expect us to have to this inane, laughable quackery? Did it ever occur to you that a psychiatrist would regard someone as being psychotically delusional who would actually insist on this?

In another video, with truly breathtaking arrogance you said that Dr. Rauschecker was utterly wrong to say that there was no cure yet for tinnitus.

I was very curious about why you never contacted him about how wrong he was (was it because he would have dismissed you as a scientifically useless crank?)

I am so tired of your ridiculous insistence that tinnitus is entirely stress related, and that all you have to do is neutralize your flight / fight / panic / anger reaction and it will then go away.

This is absurd, empirically disprovable junk science.

The degree of your astounding, woeful ignorance was also revealed when in a video you insisted that there was no way for us to see into the interior of the body.

I asked you if you had ever heard of MRIs, CAT Scans, or X-rays.

I have no idea what your motive was, but you deleted my question (as you have with anyone who would dare question such ludricrous commentary.)

I recall that you tried to have some kind of pissing contest with me when I wrote that my ophthalmologist completely contradicted your sophomoric explanation about how we develop eye floaters.

I have never encountered someone who was such an insufferably wrongheaded know-it-all about nearly everything.

I could spend all afternoon detailing the expansive range of your manifest quackery, but the abovementioned comments should suffice.

Don't think you are going to use this Forum as a free venue for advertising your quack nostrums with these bewilderingly long, unverifiable, shill-laden "testimonials".

(Incidentally, if your methods are so self-evidently demonstrable, then why do you feel the need to regale us ad nauseum with reports regarding their ability to cure?)

 

All I can say is I'm sorry if I have caused any suffering. It is really the last thing I intended to do. I was told there was nothing I could do about my own tinnitus and that I would have to learn to live with it. This devastated me and made my twenty years of hell even worse! So when I got better I vowed to do my best to help others. I had no idea that it would be so complicated and difficult. It's all learning. I sincerely wish you all well. We all need to find what helps. There are many paths to Rome. They are all valid.

 

Does your path to Rome involve my wearing a large piece of white tape affixed to both sides of my head with the word "LOVE" written in black magic marker?

If the alleged force of love contained in the word can penetrate a quarter inch of a steel cooker, then certainly it can penetrate my cranium and "improve" my tinnitus, wouldn't you say?

I'm going to walk around our very busy Chicago Downtown Daley Center and when people stare I am going to explain that you recommended this as an apparently paranormal means of healing virtually any malady.

This Center is where all of the Liability Suits are heard in Court, and let's see what these quite educated attorneys and legal experts will make out of your commentary.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't do that since I would probably be forcibly escorted by the Police to our Cook County's Mental Hospital for placement under observation.

 

I can't f**king believe that @AfroSnowman, @MindOverMatter, @Lane and @dayma would still support such an unqualified charlatan.

You have now given me a window into the sort of mentality that would have so unconditionally followed such a repulsive figure as Jim Jones into Jonestown.

You have identified yourselves as the kind of outer-directed personalities who for some unfathomable motive have completely discounted all of the obvious examples I gave that demonstrate Julian Cowan Hill's idiocy, delusional crankishness, and outright fraudulence.

Perhaps you should leave this Forum (which, in case you haven't noticed, attempts to concentrate on legitimate science) and drink the Kool-Aid with Mr. Hill.

I regard it as a point of personal honor to have the mental wherewithal to remain unaffected by him; if I ever noticed myself seriously considering him, I would regard it as a real indication that I needed Psychiatric help.

 

Take your anger out on someone else, not me. Because I put a hug emoji on something? I don't have the full history of this and because of that I should leave the forums? Way to be supportive. I come to this forum for support, not to be harassed by you.

 

I’ll second @dayma. I don’t think I deserve your anger or to be pushed off the site for putting a like next to a comment.

Simply I don’t see a problem with him pushing folks to chill out in the face of unending inescapable tinnitus. There is really nothing else to do to somewhat abate a miserable condition.

His promise of silence obviously is overstated, but there is really nothing for me to be angry about with him and I appreciate his positivity and kind of aging hippy vibe. So I gave him a like for showing up and absorbing some angry rants.

 

I'll actually get into this too

There's no such thing as "legitimate science" when it comes to tinnitus. It's all assumptions based.

Jastreboff, who I am not a fan of, is actually an accredited professor or whatever his title is. And many people claim that TRT worked for them, which I absolutely believe. So he would also under the category of legitimate science.

Julian has many videos that just help people to calm down, especially when they are in crisis mode. As far as I know his sessions are about the cranial sacral therapy, albeit in his case directly aimed at tinnitus, perhaps with claims that I'd be sceptical of. Many people on Facebook etc, write that he helped them in one way or another. So, I see no particular quackery here and I absolutely don't understand such anger towards him and especially towards fellow sufferers here.

I understand tinnitus makes all of us emotional and frustrated, I am not an exception, but come on, let's have some respect for each other. We have had enough disrespect from ENTs etc, so surely we can at least help each other out.

 

@DaveFromChicago -- You may want to consider how seriously unhinged your rantings come across. I'm not just talking about just the ones on this thread, but about similar ones you've made against other people on other threads. Just because others don't share your world view about any number of things doesn't mean you have to besmirth them. Why not just ignore people or ideas that aggravate you?

In case you're interested, my own philosophy is that one of the most important things we can learn in life is to reach some kind of "accord" with those we don't get along with. Doesn't mean we have to agree with them, or even like them. Just that we learn to let others be, and they will hopefully do the same for us. And now to forewarn you, I have a few kindly words to say to Julian--which you may or may not want to read.

Hi Julian -- I just want to let you know that the recent post(s) made against you is a very minority view, and does not reflect how many others feel about you. I ran across some of your YouTube videos a few weeks into my catastrophic tinnitus onset, and it gave me some of my first realistic hope that things could get better for me. And they did. Your calm demeanor in your videos spoke volumes, and perhaps told me as much as your words that things could improve. -- Thank you!

Hey @Johan001 -- Thanks for chiming in. Great points!

 

Copy that. No point in adding much as I won't waste my energy on such a rant from Dave.

 

To MindOverMatter, Lane, Johan001, AfroSnowman, and dayma:

This Post was submitted by Bam on 12/20/2018:

At least some Posters had the integrity to out Julian Cowan Hill as being precisely what the abovementioned description relates. It is unfortunate that there is not more of a display of such character on this Forum.

By the way, MindOverMatter:

Every comment I made about him was based on a careful, factual reporting of his comments, and therefore hardly qualifies as a "rant."

 

If that is the case Dave, I think you should read your post again... and I'm not talking about whatever you think or mean about Julian... I rest my case.

 

@Lane, you are always diplomatic in debate, and although we don’t agree on everything, we are civilised in our disagreements. I think you made some good points.

Tinnitus can bring out the worst in people, especially when it comes to discussing therapists of any sort. I can’t comment on Julian in particular because I haven’t had any dealings with him, but some of his earlier videos helped calm me down when I was in a deep depression (near the beginning of my worsening) and it didn’t cost me anything. So, for that at least, I’m thankful.

I guess the problem I have is that when obvious charlatans are preying on Tinnitus Talk members, nothing is said. Take Minbo Shim, for example, he has taken tens of thousands from people on here, and barely anyone has criticised him. He just got a free pass. John Adams handed over his grandma’s inheritance, and if I’m not mistaken, he went twice. Since then, other members followed and lost huge sums of money to him. I’ve never seen such an obvious fake treatment, but many people fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

This misbalance of hate and hard criticism has always amazed me. There would be people spitting out absolute hatred towards Julian in one breath whilst singing Minbo Shim’s praises in the next. It’s utter madness, in my opinion. There’s no objectivity at all, and this is just one example. There are many others.

 

I have to come in here. I have been twice to see him in Paddington about 10 years ago. Trust me, in my job you suss out bullshitters very easily. He is a decent well meaning bloke who actually told me after the second treatment that I would be better off going away and using my chi kung knowledge than spending money with him. His premise is too much adrenaline in the body. That is his idea, it seemed to work for him. It certainly may be a waste of time for many but I would defend him as a decent human being every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

It is very obvious that Mr. Cowan Hill is just a tinnitus money maker and he uses New Age like therapies without any value. I am sure that some people will feel better with his treatment because they are so lost in Tinnitus Hell.

 

None, because this is not the kind of research that we need. Psychological treatments do not treat root cause, and are just band aids.

 

I only watched JCH's YouTube videos and bought his book, so I can only judge that far. Most of the contents did help me some, so I absolutely don't feel "patronised" or ripped off. I don't believe that cranial sacral therapy will help in my case of tinnitus, that's why I don't give it a try.

If I take Bam's statement further, it's like thinking that anyone who does not offer a direct cure to silence tinnitus is an "asshole". While there are many cones out there, people who offer something that helps some people are not necessarily "assholes". I find the Frequency Therapeutics CEO dumping his shares just before the trial failure results, making tonnes of cash off poor sufferers who emotionally invested, way more assholish.

 

The tinnitus ecosystem is not a healthy one: the more time you have tinnitus, the more you realize the huge amount bullshit surrounding us.

When I started my tinnitus journey I thought there will be something out there to help, I could not believe what ENTs and audiologists were saying. Eight years later and after many failed "treatments", it turns out that the cold and and heartless ENTs were right. Someday, actual progress will happen, but I do not expect it soon because there is very little research and the problem is very difficult.

 

@InfiniteLoop, I totally agree. I was shocked by both that there was nothing to help with tinnitus and particularly the way I was treated by ENTs...

I tend to think that we are just the unlucky few, who are hit the hardest with severe chronic tinnitus. I have read of numerous accounts of people whose tinnitus resolved in a few weeks or months, which is probably why some ENTs are so rude and unsympathetic.

 

2 choices are live with it or death. It’s not really a good choice.

 

Unfortunately, yeah.

 

It is good people are bringing up ENTs, and I can see what @Ed209 is saying. I have spent far more on "fully qualified" ENTs, audiologists, and doctors, and have been far worse treated by them than any less-scientific "tinnitus therapists" or whatnot. Wish I had read this forum beforehand, because I can hardly afford to be spending that money! (Desperation does things to you.) At least the more new-agey therapists spent a bit of time with me and didn't make me feel like crap. I usually got an hour of somewhat greater peace than before. (And I came into all the private ENT appointments with clear notes, politely, and with low expectations - near to onset. These apprent professionals still managed to go even lower and act more dismissively than those low expectations - no Prednisone or ideas offered, of course!)

Not that one wrong equals a right, but I resonate with what some others are saying about much more expensive practitioners with an actual "Dr." before their name.

 

I do not believe Julian is a scammer but I am skeptical of his method working for everyone.