To Those Who Avoid Clubs, Concerts...

Discussion in 'Support' started by Jodi, Dec 2, 2013.

tinnitus forum
    1. Jodi
      Confused

      Jodi Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/1999
      I recently made new custom made Elacin earplugs:

      1. A regular pair with -25 dB filters
      2. A special pair completley filled with silicon (0% hollow), for maximum protection

      The second ones should lower the volume about 30-40 dB (bass-treble) according to the guy who made the moulds.

      So, I´m thinking this should be more than enough protection for more or less everybody! If the venue is booming in 110 dB, these plugs should lower that to about 80 dB in bass, and even more in treble...

      So, to those who avoid noisy environments completly, is this "just" because of anxiety for getting worse T or do actually think, or know, that 30-40 dB is still not enough protection?

      I´m asking because I just can´t live with the idea that I could never again go to a concert or club, etc. Going to clubs and concerts, but with muffled sound is a 1 000 000 times better than staying home, I think!
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    2. Jodi
      Confused

      Jodi Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/1999
      BTW, is anybody bringing a dB-meter when going out? Can you recommend a model? One metering 30 Hz - 8000 Hz is fairly cheap. One metering 20-20 000 Hz is 10-fold more expensive. What do you think?

      I´m looking at this one ATM:

      thomann.de/gb/digital_sound_8922_level_meter.htm
       
    3. Banana

      Banana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Oh man, I know that feeling. I am not sure about going out myself, my T appeared a month ago and I think I need a break. I would like to know though how do others approach going to clubs and concerts. PLEASE, tell us it's not over yet...
       
    4. Meestijn
      Balanced

      Meestijn Member Benefactor

      Location:
      The Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      I do not avoid noisy environments completly but damn I have an aura of fear around me then (Yep bad in case of T, I know I know).
      Last time I went to the Circus (with my kids) and damn I was happy wearing earplugs (-26dB)!
      Never realised it could be that loud in the Circus!!!
      The same after visiting the theatre!
      Both are not even that loud as a club and even when wearing earplugs my head was more static / restless (returned to basic level afterwards, but who knows how many more times before I reached the next level of T?)
      I do not want to be a downer but what can one risk regarding his T!
      Makes me really afraid to go to a club again!
      But I think it is hard to give an unified advice. No 2 T cases are the same thus what 1 person (still) can handle is maybe too much for the other person!

      off topic: Makes me realize that my children will be learned to protect their ears even it is considered in the current society as 'save/normal'. Hopefully they listen regarding their hearing to their dad, however, realizing I didn't always listen to my parents as well when I was young and a growing up kid (ahum)!
       
    5. seal

      seal Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I avoid clubs and concerts completly because
      1. I never liked very loud music, i never felt comfortable around it and as I know by now, I should have listened to what my body has always told me - to stay away from dangerously loud music.
      2. Now I'm not only uncomfortable around loud music but I'm also afraid my Tinnitus might get louder permanently and it's just not worth it, because as I said, I never liked loud music so I really don't need it.
      I also don't care about peer pressure, because in the end it's only me who suffers, everybody else can't understand how it feels...
      3. I don't know, if earplugs would protect me enough in extremly loud situations like a club or a concert, because my ears are already damaged. I also heard from people who wore earplugs and still managed to get Tinnitus from concerts/clubs and I won't risk it. In my opinion clubs and concerts are just TOO LOUD. I get the impression that loud isn't loud enough nowadays and I will never ever again put my body in a position where it has to deal with 120 db or whatever it is even with some earplugs. better cautious than sorry! I've done that mistake once before and believe me it's the biggest mistake I ever made and also the biggest regret I have.

      However I of course don't avoid normal louder places like cafes, pubs, restaurants, malls, cinemas,... I'm only talking about clubs/concerts. And what I'm saying applies only to me, because, I really don't miss clubbing or going to concerts because it never really was my thing(there are some other things I rather would love to do but can't because of the T..) but for those who love going clubbing it must be hard. so maybe it's worth a try to still go out and have fun! because usually that's what makes the T quieter!
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    6. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Location:
      York, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      @Jodi Depending on exactly how accurate you want to be your phone may do the job, there are a lot of apps around, some better than others.

      This article is interesting A Review Of 30 Sound (Noise) Measurement Apps « Popular « Safety Awakenings but tests were on an iPad so no way of knowing if the top apps will perform just as we'll on other devices.

      I stopped clubbing because of the extra tinnitus the next day or 2, just too much to have it that much louder. I'll still go out with earplugs if I can plan for it beforehand.

      But those earplugs should be good for you, the occupational health limits (used for work spaces) are 8 hours at 80db before there is a risk of hearing damage.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    7. Riikka

      Riikka Member

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2007
      I also have Elacin 25 db earplugs and for me they are totally worth their cost. With my elacins I'm still able to go to restaurants, theatre, cinema etc. and I can understand what people are talking, so that's really good.

      After my bad experience with my tinnitus getting worse after a gig I decided for myself to avoid bars, gigs and clubs altogether. It is really hard to estimate how much the noise level really is, how much is filtered out by the earplugs and how much noise for how much time the ears can stand. I went wrong once and I certainly don't want to risk it again, as it's already very bad now. Another aspect is that going to clubs and gigs often also involves alcohol, which makes you more prone to underestimate the noise level.

      In case you there is a concert you really don't want to miss, those filled out Elacin earplugs sound like a very good option. I didn't know they were available and they filter out that much noise. Is it a new model or should those also be available in all places?

      But I also heard there are some people whose tinnitus doesn't increase after having been in a noisy environment. Maybe they don't need to be as careful with loud music.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    8. Jodi
      Confused

      Jodi Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/1999
      I had a few incidents causing my T, 14-15 years ago; firecracker, playing the drums (inkl. cymbals - which are LOUD), and a big outdoor concert.

      After that I wore earplugs for 14 years. I estimate I´ve been to about 1 000 clubs, concerts, movie theaters, etc. during these years. And I got no percieveble increase of T!

      Only once, a couple of months ago, my plugs were not sitting tight enough, and after many hours in about 110 dB, I got (probably) permanent incerase of T. Disaster yes.

      Ca. -25 dB did the job for me for 14 years. I guess it should continue to do so, but who knows? That´s why I´m getting the filled ear plugs to.

      Music and socialising is my career and my meaning of life. It better workout. Or I´m out.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    9. Riikka

      Riikka Member

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2007
      It is just so hard to know what kind of noise level your ears can take. In the beginning of the year I was at loud gig with earplugs and my tinnitus only temporarely increased after that. Then came the gig that permanently increased my T, even though I thought it was the same noise level as the earlier gig.

      Probably my foam earplugs just weren't good enough for that gig. But I guess with your better earplugs you should be ok. For very loud places there is also the option to use additionally ear protectors. They just look stupid and it's not very convenient to carry them in the bag every day just in case.
       
    10. yonkapin

      yonkapin Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Melbourne, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2012
      I was able to go clubbing and gigs fine with -25db plugs (ReSound) and never noticed an increase in tinnitus or muffled hearing afterwards, which was really, really awesome. Only thing that screwed me over was doing the valsalva maneuver too many times and caused myself a minor barotrauma which led to more ear issues - now I'm trying to avoid exposing my ears to too much drama until things settle down.

      Would be interesting to try some solid plugs out though 30-40db reduction would be awesome, but surely the sound would be super muffled? Let us know how you go with them.
       
    11. Tenna
      Anime

      Tenna Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      I've heard a lot about protecting the higher frequences as theyre more susceptible to damage but are the lower frequencies protected too?
      With a bass high enough you can feel it in your entire body. Will those -25 db plugs protect the entire spectra, if not can you protect yourself from the lower ones?
      I'm puzzled! Having some -25db plugs made tomorrow for when staying inn New Years eve = )
       
    12. seal

      seal Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I think you can't protect yourself from very deep bass that you can feel vibrating in your body, that's the problem. foam plugs would be the best for that but still the bass comes to your inner ear through bone conduction so it can still damage your hearing.
      clubs are simply too loud,in my opinion they should be 95 db max ( it's loud already! ) but I just read that it's often 125 db which is insane...
       
    13. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Location:
      York, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      @Tenna This chart from Etymotic is for the 20dB reduction https://www.etymotic.com/technology/nrr.html

      They do still protect at the lower frequencies but not quite as much. Ask for a similar chart from the maker of your earplugs to give you a better idea.

      You really need to have an idea of the noise you'll be facing with the earplugs, and the duration of the exposure to the noise. This chart is useful http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/decibel-exposure-time-guidelines/

      I guess you have to decide based on the style of music and the sound system. A lot of places have bad sound engineers who turn up the mid range frequencies to make the music sound louder, these are especially damaging to the ears. It's also been traditional to boost the mid ranges in music production so that a track has a louder (perceived) level, which makes it stand out from others when played on radio / jukebox / mixed.

      @seal It is totally insane how loud clubs can be, I just wonder why they don't have to inform people when they go about the level of noise and how long it will take to damage their ears. Or make them have quiet areas for people to take a break, hand out ear plugs, or at least something. I don't know how much notice I would have taken when I was clubbing, but I guess at least some.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    14. Valentin

      Valentin Member

      Location:
      Thailand
      Tinnitus Since:
      17/08/2013
      Figure02-attenuation.gif Bone conduction is not really an issue
       
    15. seal

      seal Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I agree, that was exactly what happened when I got my T. The sound engineer messed up the sound (even music journalists even mentioned it in their review of the concert ) so that's probably why I ended up with T.
      Usually they would for sure have to inform you about the risks and put warning signs ( they are on cigarettes, alcohol, tanning salons .. but not in clubs? hello?!) everywhere because it is extremely dangerous to go to clubs. plus there should be controls if the legal limits of volume are crossed plus there should be high fines if they are crossed. ear plugs should always be handed out in clubs and at concerts.
       
    16. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Location:
      York, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      The education definitely needs to be there, so that people are aware of the issues. I used to love being right next to the speakers, enveloped by sound, if I had known how damaging that was to my hearing at the time I am sure I would have thought a little differently. I was into heavy metal as a teenager, after being out (next to the speakers) my ears would ring for 2 days. I didn't have a clue that it could be permanent.

      I think we need to make it fashionable to wear ear protection, the majority of people are unlikely to use them unless it is accepted by the masses. When that happens it will naturally follow that people take interest in noise levels and we begin to see real changes in venues. They can be made safer without ruining the experience.

      They do have a system in some holiday resorts in Europe, a limiting box that squashes the sound right down if it passes a peak volume. Again the venues turn up the mid and high frequencies to get maximum loudness, creating a horrible sound. This isn't for protection, but for noise pollution for local residents.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    17. Per

      Per Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      People forget how loud conventional environmental sounds can be, as a matter of fact louder and more damaging than concerts and clubs in some cases. Just read a domestic article that the health dep. had made. It was about the decibel levels at schools and kinder gardens, it concluded with dramatic results. If you work with children you are basically setting yourself up for hearing damage, kids have another threshold than us. Exposing yourself to noises like that is worse than working as a bartender at a club. Personally I don't go to bars, concerts or crowded places anymore, that stopped the day I got T&H. However, what I'm most afraid of is getting myself trapped in a place with noisy kids shouting and screaming at damaging frequencies. I can feel noise like that creating havoc in my auditory system, its actually a physical pain! It feels like an pointy arrow of compressed air shooting right into my ear, traveling trough my body like electricity. Sound travels fast and I have no way of escaping it if its already on its way.

      In regards to earplugs I think they can protect to a certain level but air pressure is also vibrations, that's why we see so many helicopter pilots coming down with T after only a short time working, they protect themselves against the decibel dragon, but the vibration of the cockpit creates repeated airwaves that damages the auditory system. The number of airplane pilots with T is also increasing, although the protection is better than ever. Drummers are also exposed to vibrations, so although they wear plugs the body receives damaging airwaves.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    18. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Location:
      York, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      Agree with you on the kids thing, I really struggle and have to get away, especially from screaming babies. They give me a pain response.

      I wonder if the air pilots issue is linked to using noise cancelling headsets?
       
    19. Per

      Per Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      I know from a couple of court cases where helicopter pilots claim disability compensation, that the cockpit vibration were proven to create T in conjunction with the air-to-air traffic control noise in the headsets. The vibration creates damage in the inner ear, if its the tiny bone structure or the hair cells and/or cochlea damage I don't know. Some chopper pilots refuse to fly certain type of machines that are known to have high vibration levels. Same thing with drummers that receives repeated vibrations from the kit, airwaves like that are hard to avoid in general.

      As a note to my former post the decibel levels measured in some kinder gardens and schools are higher than many concerts! If your in those types of environments 7-8 hours a day its rather scary. They say that 85db is the highest recommended but some of these everyday environments generates 115-120db - some even more. It's crazy.
       
    20. MissionForTheCure
      Woot

      MissionForTheCure Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2009
      Hi Seal,

      Do you still wear earplugs when going to restaurants and bars? Just curious as I find even these places very loud!

      Mission
       
    21. seal

      seal Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      restaurants - depends on how loud it is, if it is packed with people and music is playing I usually only use a little bit of paper tissue and no real plugs because for me that's enough
      bars - I rarely go to these days but I would probably use earplugs because the music tends to be louder. if it's more like a pub where you only have a drink and maybe some snacks I might go for a little bit of tissue paper because again that's enough for me if it's not crowded and so on..
      also I might protect my ears after a while when I feel my ears are getting "tired" in a noisier place.

      I just have ear plugs with me at all times and when I feel it's getting too much I will use them.
      But I don't avoid those places like restaurants and I don't wear ear plugs everywhere because as I said in my opinion that makes everything worse with time.
       
    22. FireT

      FireT Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2011
      First off, earplugs that lower 30-40 dB? I would like to check them out. Searched for them at Elacin webpage, but didnt find anything.
      Currently I use "the worlds finest earplugs" (name of the earplug) They claim to be 34DB reduction by some of their resellers, which sounds totally unrealistic. Ive sent an email to the company trying to get an answer, no reply yet. In the past Ive used quies wax. Foam earplugs are big scam if you ask me, they fall out of the ear. You need something that sticks to the ear, like wax or silicone.

      Anyway, the loudest concert Ive been to since Ive started bringing my decibel meter, topped up at just above 110DB, which is totally totally insane. I had to wear 33DB earmuffs on top of my earplugs. It was cool, since it was on a vacation, I knew nobody there,so didnt care how stupid I looked.
      However, I tried to wear these earmuffs at another concert, this was in my home country, it was around 105DB. When I hid myself back in the concert hall, it went fine. But, when I went in front I did get weird looks, and a negative comment that it looked weird. Never doing this again I thought.
      So, I was in London clubbing, I was shocked, the volume was 105DB even a couple DB that above at times. My quies earplugs dont really go that far, they say 27DB, but that is the avarage. I want a bigger marging than that. 100DB is ok with earplugs, but over that Im starting to get nervous. My ears are really weak after past damage. Thankfully Ive made some water with frequencies++ that I put in my ear overnight that seem to really have lowered the volume of T. But, Ive just used it a a week, so need more time to tell.

      So ive come up with a plan. Ive just bought some "CERTIFIED 37 NRR EARMUFFS " available on ebay and heres the thing, I plan to wear them under a Super Jumbo Afro Wig, see attached file, btw, its not me on the picture. Its the biggest wig I could find and if I cant get them under there, I got some low profile 31DB earmuffs that are really thin that Im sure would fit under that wig. When its reach 105DB or above, its either that, my low profile earmuffs and earplugs under them, or leave for me. Im done with gambling with my ears.
      I think people will think the wig is really funny, especially with the parties I go to which are like the most crazy in the world, arranged by christian mystics hehe.
      I feel this is a good plan. Btw, I usually dress pretty eccentric anyhow, with lots of bling etc, and love attention, so the wig will only spice it up. And people usually dress weird at those parties anyway.
       

      Attached Files:

    23. Per

      Per Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      Great wig FireT. Shalamar go home :) I think you are brave to visit all those gigs, challenging your T. I guess it's the only way to grab life if you wanna be in charge and you feel your able to manage it safe.
       
    24. Tenna
      Anime

      Tenna Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      @FireT None will look oddly at you then :p
      105 db is not rare to see in clubs imo. Give us a tell on how it works out ;) When you think about it, and if people think about it, respecting music is what you're doing yeah
       
    25. matthew heafield
      Dancing

      matthew heafield Member

      Location:
      Uttoxeter/UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2004
      Hi want some good ear plugs then search "laser lite ears plugs" on ebay. I use these at work. They are rated to 35SNR. So if you insert the properly 35db is what can be reduced by them. The a soft and comfortable. I would recommend these to everyone on TT
       
    26. frohike
      Approved

      frohike Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Elancing reduces from 15 to 25. Those are custom molded earplugs. I don't believe any earplug is able to reduce 30-40 despite what their marketing says.
       
    27. Riikka

      Riikka Member

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2007
      I quit going to salsa dancing after my T got worse this summer, as they are usually in clubs with quite loud music. I'm too scared of that now. I figured the only way I could go would be with my earplugs plus earmuffs. But I only have that kind of ugly earmuffs made for guys working on a construction site.
      I see a lot of people walking around on the streets with huge headphones, which are considered cool at the moment. I wonder why ear protection can't be considered as fashionable in the same way. Sure they could design earmuffs in a way that they more resemble headphones.
       
    28. I who love music
      Cheerful

      I who love music Member

      Location:
      Michigan
      Tinnitus Since:
      mid seventies
      Seal is right. There is no protection from bass. None. The volume of concerts and music in bars these days is nuts. Your body actually is made to hear some frequencies through the 'bone' behind the ear. How do you protect that? My last big music volume blast, the one that did me in, was while I was wearing waxy full ear canal plugs PLUS silent headphones. You'd think that would protect most of my hearing. Nope.
       
    29. Logan
      Stressed

      Logan Member

      Location:
      Missouri
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I will probably never go to a concert/club again or anywhere loud. I just don't want to risk damaging my ears any more, a lot of sounds seem to hurt my ears and can sometimes cause spikes. I never really liked going to concerts or anything like that anyway so it doesn't bother me to much. I like watching movies and playing video games at my house since I don't have to be exposed to loud noise. But I do understand it must be hard for other people, I would just recommend really good ear plugs and to not sit close to any speakers!
       
    30. Per

      Per Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      What's the best protection in regards to db? Would the cheap and simple foam plugs do a better job if the goal is to exclude noise? I don't understand the custom molded protection concepts with filtering, cause it's like "getting a little bit pregnant" if you know what I mean. If my goal is to avoid noise and protect myself I wouldn't like to wear anything that actually let a whole lot of noise in. Since it looks kinda weird to wear construction work earmuffs I tend to think that the foam plugs (if inserted correctly) does the job? If I insert my foam plugs by twisting the tip it will expand inside my ears, and as far as I can judge they do a good job of excluding sound. Or am I being fooled by perception?
       

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