What's the Safest Way to Listen to Music?

[another sean]

I have highly reactive tinnitus. I am home bound. I haven't listen to music in over 2 years because speakers at any volume spikes my tinnitus.

So I am trying to find out is there a way to listen to music safely? My tinnitus is at 11 kHz. I have thought about equalizers but from my understand they don't totally eliminate frequencies. I know of notched music but I am concerned that speakers themselves emit electrical noises that would be in the higher frequency range.

I've thought about playing a vinyl record using a toothpick as needle attached to a paper cone. But since there is not EQ control, that 11 kHz may still be audible.

Has anyone had similar problems listening to music and found away to do it without spiking tinnitus and causing further damage to the baseline? It behooves me to ask. I really want to hear music again.

Thanks

 

[PaulBe]

It took me a two years to gradually stop fearing hearing music through any speakers. The only treatment available to me was patience and gentle testing of the limits, a bit at a time while waiting for better days and not torturing myself on the worse days. I had to find a minimal quality of sound that I could more-or-less accept across the cycle. Over time (going toward five years) it gradually improved exponentially.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I have highly reactive tinnitus. I am home bound. I haven't listen to music in over 2 years because speakers at any volume spikes my tinnitus.

So I am trying to find out is there a way to listen to music safely? My tinnitus is at 11 kHz. I have thought about equalizers but from my understand they don't totally eliminate frequencies. I know of notched music but I am concerned that speakers themselves emit electrical noises that would be in the higher frequency range.

I've thought about playing a vinyl record using a toothpick as needle attached to a paper cone. But since there is not EQ control, that 11 kHz may still be audible.

Has anyone had similar problems listening to music and found away to do it without spiking tinnitus and causing further damage to the baseline? It behooves me to ask. I really want to hear music again.

Thanks

@another sean

HI Sean,

Reading your post brings back memories of a time when I had very severe hyperacusis and was unable to listen to my HI-FI at even 30 decibels because my ears would be in a lot of pain. I am sorry to hear of your discomfort and distress that you are feeling. My hyperacusis was completely cured using white noise generators and having counselling. The treatment took two years and haven't experienced any hyperacusis or over sensitivity to sound for 20 years.

Firstly. You have had these symptoms for quite a while have you had any professional help? By this I mean treatment at ENT or been referred to a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist for treatment of tinnitus and hyperacusis because this is what is required in order for you to improve. The best treatment would be TRT but I do understand it is an expensive treatment. CBT or counselling with the health professionals that I've mentioned, to help you get out of your present mindset I feel would be of benefit.

I do not believe there is such a thing as "Reactive tinnitus" and was a term made up in tinnitus forms. The sensitivity to sound that you are experiencing is typical Hyperacusis. It comes in various levels of severity and it can manifest itself differently between people. However, sensitivity to sound is the overwhelming problem with this condition and it can be painful. Contrary to what some people believe, it can be treated and the symptoms reduced and in many cases completely cured.

Try listening to music at a very low level perhaps not a HI-FI system at the moment but a portable cd player/radio for now to help build up your tolerance to sound and desensitize your auditory system. You really need treatment so please try and get medical help in the manner I've described above. Please click on the links below and read my posts: Hyperacusis, As I see it and Tinnitus, A Personal View. Please do not start using Ear defenders or overusing earplugs as you will lower the loudness of your threshold of your auditory system and possibly make your situation more acute.

I wish you all the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/

 

[PaulBe]

I do not believe there is such a thing as "Reactive tinnitus" and was a term made up in tinnitus forms. The sensitivity to sound that you are experiencing is typical Hyperacusis.

This remains controversial as you should see in 3....2....1.....

In Australia they tend to lump all forms of sound sensitivity under the banner of hyperacusis be it volume, frequency, or both. My take on RT is that it is a change in tinnitus tone and/or volume that accompanies some (or all) variant sound exposures above the protective baseline that you permit yourself to be exposed to. It could be fleeting or sustained, but it creates a lot of fear and anxiety because the physiological message it brings suggests a worsening of an already debilitating condition. I think its a real enough phenomenon in that its a way that people find satisfactory to describe what they are experiencing (which is how medical terminologies often originate), but I diverge a little from Michael's view at this time: I'm not certain its always a part of having hyperacusis though it could be a harbinger of it when someone still has just tinnitus. That's how it seemed to go for me: tinnitus first, then hyperacusis. The term has (our) community acceptance to a fair degree, but it doesn't have a lot of professional recognition, except to acknowledge that its out there being used. Time will tell if it ultimately has utility as a medical description (every little bit helps build a bigger picture). We've had the debate about this on past threads and a diverse consensus was reached that everyone was an arsehole and should just shut up now, so we probably don't need to revisit that very often as it usually goes south quickly (one of a number of topics that do...who can forget Ernie's "what about God" thread? phew...).

Michael's first paragraph is what is the useful take-home. He got good quality treatment based on the care-model of the day, he was patient and persisted with the plan (trust built with quality-minded carers does make a difference) and his sound sensitivity has left him by his own report, and not returned even though he still gets spiking tinnitus. Given the realities here, I'd be happy enough with that outcome. It doesn't undo what happened but it allowed life to go on and it returned music to him, without potentially irreversible surgical gambles, or mind altering pill regimes. For many of us in the T & H camp, that would be enough, and it this point in history its about as good as we'll get. The Medical profession won't solve the problem definitively if its widespread, and difficult/expensive to solve. The nature of tinnitus is that it demands not just a solution but an efficient, cost-controlled solution because our numbers are rising. Complex solutions end up rationed by capacity to pay issues at the individual or Nation/State level.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Time will tell if it ultimately has utility as a medical description (every little bit helps build a bigger picture).

@PaulBe

Hi Paul,

Thank you for writing such a well written post, it's always it's interesting to read your points of view. My belief in the term Reactive tinnitus and its origins hasn't changed and I don't think it ever will, but agree with you that some people find it an appropriate way of describing what they are experiencing. I hope the medical profession never recognises it as a medical condition that becomes universally accepted, as some want to do and treat it separately from hyperacusis. This will inevitably incur more expense.

Last year I read a paper that someone submitted in this forum from a clinic, describing the way Reactive Tinnitus should be treated using "sound therapy" which is phase (1) of their treatment plan. After this is completed phase (2) of their plan is implement using "sound therapy" to treat hyperacusis. I do not believe in this for moment and think, there are people out there that want to cash in on people that are having difficulty coping with tinnitus and hyperacusis . The invention of yet another treatable condition, is a sure way of convincing those that are in difficulty to part with more money.

All the best
Michael

 

[another sean]

@PaulBe @Michael Leigh let me shed some light on my tinnitus and maybe someone can help me determine if its really just Hyperacusis or not. Before my T spiraled out of control, I would watch TV at the lowest possible volume to where I can just barely understand what people were saying. So really really low. after about 30 minutes, my Tinnitus was start to rise from 1 to a 7.

Now if I hear any speaker, it spikes instantly and there is no physical pain or irritation at all. And my baseline will be permanently risen. It won't go down the next or the next year. My base line rises and stays that way. My baseline has quadrupled in the last 2 years thru unforeseen noises.

So when people suggest I have H, and suggest I do TRT or use noise machines, to me that seems like a dangerous idea because it will raise my base to unimaginable levels permanently. And doctors have suggest the same thing. Or even hearing aids. but these are speakers as well. But I got tinnitus thru listening to speakers and low volume but for a long duration. So I dont understand why speakers would be a solution. After almost 3 years I am still confused about my type of Tinnitus. I am home bound now and have lost a lot like walking freely in the sunshine and if I could some how listen to music again, it would bring back at least one great loss to my life.

 

[Michael Leigh]

@another sean

Hi Sean,

Thank you for supplying additional information. As Paul rightly says, some people describe their experience with what they are going through as "Reactive tinnitus". As I have mentioned in my post, hyperacusis can manifest itself differently between people. At it's most severe one can feel immense pain as I did when I had it 22 years ago. I also experienced the "Reactive tinnitus" that people have mentioned in this forum and also what you describe.

Whatever one wants to call it. I believe your condition needs treatment using sound therapy. The best that is available at present is using white noise generators. However, simply wearing white noise generators alone I don't think will help you. Due to you being at home a lot and not going out, I think it would be best to have counselling. TRT is the best treatment for you in my opinion. There is a right way and wrong way to use white noise generators for some people.

Some people are very sensitive to white noise generators at first. Therefore, they have to be introduced to the ears and auditory system slowly. Instead of wearing them straight-off for 8 to 10hrs which can cause "spikes" in the tinnitus and hyperacusis. They are worn for just 1hr or 2hrs and then taken off for the same amount of time. Then they are put back on. Over a few weeks the wearing time is increased so your ears and auditory system adjust to the white noise and irritability or oversensitivity is reduced.

If your situation doesn't improve following my suggestions in my post: Hyperacusis, As I see it. Then you need professional help and if I were you, try and get TRT with counselling following the correct TRT protocol. This is wearing 2 white noise generators with regular counselling. Treatment can take up to 2 years. Any clinic you contact saying they practice TRT and does not follow the treatment as I have described, it is not proper TRT. If you can't get TRT then try CBT and use sound therapy at home. Staying at home and avoiding normal everyday sounds is not the solution, neither is wearing earplugs and ear defenders.

Michael

 

[Autumnly]

In August 2017 I developed severe hyperacusis and became home-bound. I'm just now beginning to slowly get better. Unfortunately, TRT is not being offered anywhere near me. However, I bought a sound therapy system and started listening to it as much as I could. The beginning was horrible, I was wearing hearing protection basically 24/7 because even my own voice or the clicking of my computer mouse would cause severe ear pain and headaches. When I listened to the sound box at the beginning I'd get a headache immediately, my ears felt full and hot and I'd feel dizzy. I couldn't listen to it for more than a couple of minutes but I stuck with it.
Now the sound machine isn't causing me any ear pain or headaches anymore. My own voice doesn't hurt my ears as much anymore. I'm wearing hearing protection less often. I also bought CBT guide books and started working on my fear of sounds and negative thought patterns on my own. My hyperacusis is slowly getting better but I think it'll be a long process.

Here's a link to a case on how TRT helped someone with severe hyperacusis and tinnitus:
Overprotection-Hyperacusis-Phonobia & Tinnitus Retraining Therapy: A Case Study

• Some of these people mistakenly believe that exposure to low-level sounds can cause additional damage to their hearing. A majority of patients with severe hyperacusis overprotect their ears by wearing earplugs or earmuffs (or both) much of the time. Overuse of earplugs or earmuffs (that is, daily use even when the patient is not exposed to hazardous sound levels) can lead to further hypersensitization of the patient's auditory system. A vicious cycle of overprotection- hyperacusis-phonophobia (OHP) develops.
• A 52-year-old male presented with tinnitus, hearing loss and extreme hyperacusis. The patient wore earmuffs inside the home when his activities (such as stirring powder into a glass of water) involved even minimal sound exposure. Over time he eliminated crunchy and solid foods from his diet because he could not tolerate the sound of his own chewing. He stopped shaving his face, washing his hair, and taking showers because these sounds were perceived as painful. He bathed himself using sanitary wipes. He gave his guitar to his sister because he was no longer able to tolerate the sound of the instrument he once loved to play. He stopped driving his car and rarely left his home, except to collect mail from his mailbox. He wore earplugs and ear muffs whenever he walked outside of his house because even the thought of being exposed to sounds such as birds chirping, wind blowing, or a car horn caused intense feelings of anxiety and fear.
  
• One year after his initial appointment, the patient was participating in more activities inside and outside of his home. His use of earplugs and earmuffs was less frequent. He continued to exhibit phonobia, but the severity of his hyperacusis and tinnitus had decreased. He attended a few counseling sessions with a psychologist to address his phonobia. He took Remeron to treat his depression and insomnia. Twenty-seven months into the program, the patient reported he was doing very well. He had removed the bricks and boards from the windows of his house. He purchased a computer and became active on the internet helping other people who suffer from hyperacusis. He was again able to enjoy playing guitar.

 

[Autumnly]

I was worried that low-level sound exposure would worsen my already severe tinnitus as my ears reacted in such an extreme way to sound and yes, my tinnitus did spike a lot in the beginning. Introducing more sounds during the day meant that I would be left with even louder tinnitus in the evening but it would be back to baseline in the morning.
So overall my tinnitus baseline did not increase since I've started using a sound machine and wearing hearing protection less often.

 

[Vincent R]

I have highly reactive tinnitus. I am home bound. I haven't listen to music in over 2 years because speakers at any volume spikes my tinnitus.

So I am trying to find out is there a way to listen to music safely? My tinnitus is at 11 kHz. I have thought about equalizers but from my understand they don't totally eliminate frequencies. I know of notched music but I am concerned that speakers themselves emit electrical noises that would be in the higher frequency range.

I've thought about playing a vinyl record using a toothpick as needle attached to a paper cone. But since there is not EQ control, that 11 kHz may still be audible.

Has anyone had similar problems listening to music and found away to do it without spiking tinnitus and causing further damage to the baseline? It behooves me to ask. I really want to hear music again.

Thanks

I regularly listen to music through small computer speakers at a low volume. I haven't suffered any negative consequences.

 

[fishbone]

People either have hyperacusis/sensitive ears or lots of fear/stress when it comes to sound. If your issue is hyperacusis, then see if you can solve that issue. If your issue is stress/anxiety/fear regarding noise, then try to reduce that as well. I have faced both issues and have solved both issues. Meaning, that it is possible to overcome those issues.

I listen to music at low levels that I know, won't hurt my ears. That's the whole point, being confident and enjoying yourself and knowing that you shall be ok. This does take time, patience and it can be done for sure... Sensitive ears/stress contribute to our ears re-acting to noise/music in negative ways...

 

[Michael Leigh]

I was worried that low-level sound exposure would worsen my already severe tinnitus as my ears reacted in such an extreme way to sound and yes, my tinnitus did spike a lot in the beginning. Introducing more sounds during the day meant that I would be left with even louder tinnitus in the evening but it would be back to baseline in the morning.
So overall my tinnitus baseline did not increase since I've started using a sound machine and wearing hearing protection less often.

Well said @Autumnly . I wish others in this forum that are having difficulty with sound sensitivity, read and follow your suggestions and give it time. The overuse of earplugs and ear defenders to suppress normal everyday sounds and avoidness of these sounds, causing more harm than good long term. In some cases this can lead to phonophobia and misophona if one isn't careful.

 

[Ed209]

People either have hyperacusis/sensitive ears or lots of fear/stress when it comes to sound. If your issue is hyperacusis, then see if you can solve that issue. If your issue is stress/anxiety/fear regarding noise, then try to reduce that as well. I have faced both issues and have solved both issues. Meaning, that it is possible to overcome those issues.

I listen to music at low levels that I know, won't hurt my ears. That's the whole point, being confident and enjoying yourself and knowing that you shall be ok. This does take time, patience and it can be done for sure... Sensitive ears/stress contribute to our ears re-acting to noise/music in negative ways...

There are legitimate cases of people having severe hyperacusis on this forum. I think one of the problems with this scenario is that it means we have access to all the worst stories imaginable, and they are pretty much all in one place. If one is not careful this can easily influence one's behaviour in a bad way. Especially if you're easily worried or concerned. What I mean by this is 'overprotection'; feeling that you need to protect your ears from non-damaging sounds 24/7.

@another sean, we have no idea what your background is and we can't physically examine you. You need someone with an informed opinion evaluating you in the real world, so go and get examined by an ENT. Let them guide you (often via an audiologist) and take it from there. There are just too many variables for a forum to be giving you advice.

Have you already gone down that route?

Edit: ignore me, I saw the second post which mentioned you spoke to some Drs. In which case most would agree that your isolation is making you worse. This is the one thing that I would prioritise and try to tackle first.

 

[fishbone]

There are legitimate cases of people having severe hyperacusis on this forum. I think one of the problems with this scenario is that it means we have access to all the worst stories imaginable, and they are pretty much all in one place. If one is not careful this can easily influence one's behaviour in a bad way. Especially if you're easily worried or concerned. What I mean by this is 'overprotection'; feeling that you need to protect your ears from non-damaging sounds 24/7.

@another sean, we have no idea what your background is and we can't physically examine you. You need someone with an informed opinion evaluating you in the real world, so go and get examined by an ENT. Let them guide you (often via an audiologist) and take it from there. There are just too many variables for a forum to be giving you advice.

Have you already gone down that route?

Edit: ignore me, I saw the second post which mentioned you spoke to some Drs. In which case most would agree that your isolation is making you worse. This is the one thing that I would prioritise and try to tackle first.

When I got tinnitus in 1988, I had TONS of pain in my ears and I had the classic/beginner's low hiss/tone (most folks with tinnitus get the low tones/hiss at first). I went to an audiologist that was reputable and I told him that I had sensitivity to all noises. Based on what I was telling him, he knew that I had hyperacusis and offered me the TRT treatment which I used. With his help I eliminated my hyperacusis.

If my ears were in pain from the dropping of a needle, then I would visit a reputable audiologist that understands tinnitus and see what they have to say. From my experience TRT solved my hyperacusis situation, I do not know of other tools/techniques that can solve hyperacusis. I also, have not looked into other tools and techniques, so I only know about TRT and it was a blessing.

Reading horror stories is something I advise newcomers to NOT read. Not every situation will APPLY to them. We are all different and one's story doesn't mean it will be their story.

Over protection of the ears is a bad thing. Not all noises are bad and we should not plug up our ears 24-7 and feel that we are safe. This type of thing can lead up to phobias and OCDs. Phobias and OCDs at times are worst than the actual tinnitus.....

I had hyperacusis for close to 4+ years and it was beyond hell, but I had the willpower and desire to solve this issue and I did......

 

[GregCA]

So I am trying to find out is there a way to listen to music safely? My tinnitus is at 11 kHz. I have thought about equalizers but from my understand they don't totally eliminate frequencies.

What are you trying to do? Eliminate 11 kHz? If so, why? What is your rationale?

I know of notched music but I am concerned that speakers themselves emit electrical noises that would be in the higher frequency range.

Speakers aren't supposed to emit electrical noises in the higher frequency range: they try to reproduce the signal they are fed as faithfully as possible. Their frequency response is somewhat variable, but - except for buggy/poor/broken hardware - there shouldn't be any spurious noises.

I listen to music from time to time from different sources (speakers, headphones) and haven't noticed any bad effect on my T. I am, however, pretty disciplined when it comes to volume.

 

[Ed209]

What are you trying to do? Eliminate 11 kHz? If so, why? What is your rationale?

I'm guessing he is trying to eliminate his reactive tone. Maybe 11khz is the frequency of his T and he wants to eliminate it like the technique used in notched music therapy.

 

[Ed209]

When I got tinnitus in 1988, I had TONS of pain in my ears and I had the classic/beginner's low hiss/tone (most folks with tinnitus get the low tones/hiss at first). I went to an audiologist that was reputable and I told him that I had sensitivity to all noises. Based on what I was telling him, he knew that I had hyperacusis and offered me the TRT treatment which I used. With his help I eliminated my hyperacusis.

If my ears were in pain from the dropping of a needle, then I would visit a reputable audiologist that understands tinnitus and see what they have to say. From my experience TRT solved my hyperacusis situation, I do not know of other tools/techniques that can solve hyperacusis. I also, have not looked into other tools and techniques, so I only know about TRT and it was a blessing.

Reading horror stories is something I advise newcomers to NOT read. Not every situation will APPLY to them. We are all different and one's story doesn't mean it will be their story.

Over protection of the ears is a bad thing. Not all noises are bad and we should not plug up our ears 24-7 and feel that we are safe. This type of thing can lead up to phobias and OCDs. Phobias and OCDs at times are worst than the actual tinnitus.....

I had hyperacusis for close to 4+ years and it was beyond hell, but I had the willpower and desire to solve this issue and I did......

I agree 100% fishbone, but TRT is like the worst swear (curse) word on here. It never fails to open a can of words. I think just the mere mention of the first two letters T R ......., and some are already foaming at the mouth in a drooling rage. So angry are they, that they can't physically attack the keyboard quick enough to get their reply in.

I know some reputable musicians who did TRT and it worked for them. I can't recommend it personally because I've never had it, but I wouldn't go out of my way to discredit it either. If it works for some then great. If you've had it and you didn't like it or it didn't work then absolutely voice your opinion. I think most people who seem to criticise it haven't even tried it. Although, I'll agree that it's ridiculously expensive; especially in the US. At the end of the day we all just want to feel better. We have to realise there is no cure. Nothing will stop the infernal racket that screams in our head 24/7, so what's the next best thing? It's dealing with our reaction to it and learning to cope. If we can take the emotional sting out of it then we'll definitely be in a better place mentally. Unfortunately some can't let go, and they sit spending all their time researching it. It's just putting your life on hold until the cure lands, but it might not ever happen. I think the research side is ok if you've already got into a place, emotionally, where you have accepted it and habituated (the other swear word).

 

[GregCA]

I'm guessing he is trying to eliminate his reactive tone. Maybe 11khz is the frequency of his T and he wants to eliminate it like the technique used in notched music therapy.

11 kHz is definitely the frequency of his T (he mentions it in his first message), and I think you are right about what he's trying to accomplish, but I'd like to understand if 11 kHz is also the frequency that his T seems to react to (and how he figured that out).

 

[fishbone]

I agree 100% fishbone, but TRT is like the worst swear (curse) word on here. It never fails to open a can of words. I think just the mere mention of the first two letters T R ......., and some are already foaming at the mouth in a drooling rage. So angry are they, that they can't physically attack the keyboard quick enough to get their reply in.

I know some reputable musicians who did TRT and it worked for them. I can't recommend it personally because I've never had it, but I wouldn't go out of my way to discredit it either. If it works for some then great. At the end of the day we want to feel better. We have to realise there is no cure. Nothing will stop the infernal racket that screams in our head 24/7, so what's the next best thing? It's dealing with our reaction to it and learning to cope. If we can take the emotional sting out of it then we'll definitely be in a better place mentally. Unfortunately some can't let go, and they sit spending all their time researching it. It's just putting your life on hold until the cure lands, but it might not ever happen. I think the research side is ok if you've already got into a place, emotionally, where you have accepted it and habituated (the other swear word).

I am here to help people and to be honest with them. Everything that i have shared on this forum, has helped me to live a life that is still enjoyable and productive. TRT helped me, it helped @Michael Leigh and numerous others. As I say in my posts, those that bash TRT never even tried it(most people). If folks have tried it then, come here and share your experiences. We can learn from our experiences and it can be helpful to others too.

I have bought and tried almost all the promises that are being offered for tinnitus(30 years of trial and error). I been there and done that and I share what works for me and how it can possibly help newcomers. I am not recommending TRT or anything to anyone, I just share my experience with it.

At the end of the day, I just want folks to live a good life and not be afflicted with this demon that rings crazy 24-7...

 

[Michael Leigh]

I am here to help people and to be honest with them. Everything that i have shared on this forum, has helped me to live a life that is still enjoyable and productive. TRT helped me, it helped @Michael Leigh and numerous others. As I say in my posts, those that bash TRT never even tried it(most people). If folks have tried it then, come here and share your experiences. We can learn from our experiences and it can be helpful to others too.

Your posts on this thread @fishbone and elsewhere on this forum, show the vast experience that you have with tinnitus and hyperacusis, and we are fortunate to be able to learn form it...

Michael

 

[PaulBe]

I listen to music from time to time from different sources (speakers, headphones) and haven't noticed any bad effect on my T. I am, however, pretty disciplined when it comes to volume.

I do too these days. Its improved with time, and as a result my anxiety has come down with it.

 

[PaulBe]

let me shed some light on my tinnitus and maybe someone can help me determine if its really just Hyperacusis or not.

It can be hard because everything here works on a continuum in terms of presentation of symptoms. My own take is that tinnitus is commonly defined as a reported added sound, inaudible to an objective second observer. We know from research that tinnitus sounds can be detected at the physiological baseline in everyone when perfect silence is induced. It becomes pathological when it becomes reset pathologically to a higher baseline, audible above the normal background of everyday sound. Hyperacusis is a bit harder to define because settled common language hasn't happened fully yet across the board (see reactive tinnitus vs spiking tinnitus). Where I live hyperacusis is expressed now as any averse sensitivity to to any external sound or cluster of sounds. It can be a seemingly dramatic increase in otherwise normal volumes, and this can be across the board or (I think) more commonly across specific frequency bands. If you are listening quietly to music and the quality of what you hear degrades as you increase the volume then that could mean you show hyperacusis once certain levels of volume are delivered across certain frequencies (like an unbalanced equalizer?). I am proof that this kind of thing can improve over time without targeted therapy suggesting central nerves are capable of some regeneration provided the damaging stimulus is minimized (I won't say removed, but I do believe in judicious use of earplugs for the first six months to a year just as you would plaster and immobilize a fracture). Michael can give you a lot more information on the path he took (and you should look at it...ignore some of the more fiery posts past threads and just focus on the advice that people believe worked for them. arguments pro and con you can worry about later). And another thing. Music is for pleasure, hearing is only for escaping from predators, which is why we have the sense in the first place (our ancestors used the early warning system). Don't turn music into a nightmare experience by trying to force your way through this. You will build that misery into your memory and that will actually inhibit coping (see phonophobia/misophonia). Tinnitus is a physical injury but it builds huge psychological impacts that left un-managed can greater damage over time than the tinnitus itself. Don't try to do it all alone if you don't have to.

 

[another sean]

Hi guys,

Thank you for all the replies. There is some good information here. I still feel my situation is different because many are mentioning sensitivity to sounds or a sensation of pain to sound which I have none of and also not mentioned the rise of ones baseline which I am having a problem with. My T just spikes to any reasonable sound say above 40db, it even spikes when wearing ear muffs, and if the sound is too loud, then it raises my base line forever. For example, I was sitting in someones car and I was wearing ear muffs and ear plus to protect myself against the road noise on the free way. all of sudden they received a phone call and answered it on speaker phone. The call lasted for 2 minutes and it wasn't extremely loud. it didnt cause any physical pain, but from that day on, my base line doubled in volume and that was 2 years ago. so my logic is, if a phone call doubles my base line forever, what would using noise generators do? why wouldn't a noise generator raise my base line permanently as well like a speaker phone call? Another event that raised my base line forever was driving on a a freeway for 15 minutes while still wearing ear plugs and ear muffs. Another time going into a grocery store while they played music on on the intercom system. not loud. very normal levels you would hear in most super markets. So if someone can help me understand why a noise generator wouldn't raise my base line forever but a speaker phone call and similar noises would, then I might consider TRT. I really would like to understand this because if it goes wrong, there is no turning back based on previous acoustic events.

 

[PaulBe]

I can fully relate to all the circumstances you are describing (the phone, the car, department store speakers etc.) It was well over two years before I noticed it starting to settle. Often I would notice I could tolerate sounds again because I suddenly was subjected to them without ear-blocking and found the impact wasn't as bad as I expected. I would rarely take a phone call for over a year, and only then with headphones plugged into the phone and set quiet. the sound through small speakers felt like it was forcing its way through like a handful of needles being pushed in. I think in cases like ours there is an initial injury/insult to the inner hearing mechanism, then there is an ongoing micro-cascade of damage extension as inflammation occurs, compressing nutrient structures in adjacent cells, or just burning them through intracellular acid release, and then there is a self-limiting point where recovery can start. I'd say the rough time-frame from injury to maximum possible recovery at the cellular/neuronal level could be five to seven years. There may be ways to facilitate healing earlier if the medical fraternity could get a little further on board at the start. There is a potential wild card with regard to the structures of the middle ear which can certainly play a role in making this all worse than it needs to be. There are threads on this around the Board, some in the Hyperacusis section, if you're curious, but its an area that be fairly easily researched, except it isn't. Yours sounds like acute HF injury and the wandering tinnitus suggests its still fairly raw. Can only wish you luck, but TRT/Masking can be helpful, even as a symptomatic relief. I use my White-Noise masker on really bad days. You don't tend to see improvements ahead, usually you notice then retrospectively, like: oh, that wasn't as loud as I expected, or, hey, that didn't hurt the last few tim......OK, well maybe not that one...

 

[Vincent R]

Hi guys,

Thank you for all the replies. There is some good information here. I still feel my situation is different because many are mentioning sensitivity to sounds or a sensation of pain to sound which I have none of and also not mentioned the rise of ones baseline which I am having a problem with. My T just spikes to any reasonable sound say above 40db, it even spikes when wearing ear muffs, and if the sound is too loud, then it raises my base line forever. For example, I was sitting in someones car and I was wearing ear muffs and ear plus to protect myself against the road noise on the free way. all of sudden they received a phone call and answered it on speaker phone. The call lasted for 2 minutes and it wasn't extremely loud. it didnt cause any physical pain, but from that day on, my base line doubled in volume and that was 2 years ago. so my logic is, if a phone call doubles my base line forever, what would using noise generators do? why wouldn't a noise generator raise my base line permanently as well like a speaker phone call? Another event that raised my base line forever was driving on a a freeway for 15 minutes while still wearing ear plugs and ear muffs. Another time going into a grocery store while they played music on on the intercom system. not loud. very normal levels you would hear in most super markets. So if someone can help me understand why a noise generator wouldn't raise my base line forever but a speaker phone call and similar noises would, then I might consider TRT. I really would like to understand this because if it goes wrong, there is no turning back based on previous acoustic events.

If you wore both ear plugs and ear muffs, then those incidents you describe shouldn't be sufficient to cause any permanent harm. I can't explain what's going on, but sometimes T gets worse or better for reasons we don't understand. Tensions can cause T for some people. Maybe yours gets worse from it?

My advice, that perhaps won't be good for much, is that you should try to live as healthy as you can for a while, especially with regards to relaxation. See where it takes you. I've experienced some unexpected improvements after noise incidents myself.

I wouldn't take any risks for the sake of trying TRT if I were you. It works for some, but doesn't appear to be a magic bullet. Natural habituation may be just as good. Frankly, using inner ear phones for hours and hours seems like a pretty risky thing to do.

 

[fishbone]

If you wore both ear plugs and ear muffs, then those incidents you describe shouldn't be sufficient to cause any permanent harm. I can't explain what's going on, but sometimes T gets worse or better for reasons we don't understand. Tensions can cause T for some people. Maybe yours gets worse from it?

My advice, that perhaps won't be good for much, is that you should try to live as healthy as you can for a while, especially with regards to relaxation. See where it takes you. I've experienced some unexpected improvements after noise incidents myself.

I wouldn't take any risks for the sake of trying TRT if I were you. It works for some, but doesn't appear to be a magic bullet. Natural habituation may be just as good. Frankly, using inner ear phones for hours and hours seems like a pretty risky thing to do.

Being healthy, having healthy habits can go far with tinnitus. If our bodies are healthy, it's quite possible to have lower stress. Lower stress is key for managing tinnitus. The problem is that when tinnitus hits, it can make us not motivated at times and we can slack off on being healthy and having healthy habits. I am guilty of this myself and have always tried to improve this as best as I can...

 

[Michael Leigh]

So if someone can help me understand why a noise generator wouldn't raise my base line forever but a speaker phone call and similar noises would, then I might consider TRT. I really would like to understand this because if it goes wrong, there is no turning back based on previous acoustic events.

Hi Sean,

I believe it is the overuse of hearing protection has contributed to reduction of the "loudness threshold" of your auditory system. Even though you are not experiencing any pain or sensitivity to sound but notice the baseline level of your tinnitus increasing, your problem is still related to external sounds being transferred to your inner ear by bone conduction, for you have noticed even when wearing earplugs and earmuffs you are still being affected.

The more you continue to wear earplugs and earmuffs to suppress normal everyday sounds, I believe you are making your situation worse. As I previously explained, I think you need professional help and recommend sound therapy and counselling. I am only making suggestions to you based on my experience with tinnitus and hyperacusis. The sooner you seek help the better it will be for you. Staying at home and avoiding sounds from the outside environment will only make your situation more difficult to treat in my opinion and this will affect your mental well being. It is for this reason I believe you need counselling in addition to sound therapy and I recommend TRT, as it's the best treatment available if you can get it and in accordance to what I've described. This usually requires wearing 2 white noise generators and having regular counselling with a Hearing Therapist. Your healthcare provider will ultimately recommend the best treatment programme for you.

Your condition didn't happen overnight and will take time to treat. You need to be examined at ENT to make sure there is no underlying medical condition that is causing your symptoms. If all the tests are clear then a referral to a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist trained in the treatment and management of tinnitus and hyperacusis, is the best way forward, to put you back on the road to recovery.

Michael

 

[fishbone]

Hi Sean,

I believe it is the overuse of hearing protection has contributed to reduction of the "loudness threshold" of your auditory system. Even though you are not experiencing any pain or sensitivity to sound but notice the baseline level of your tinnitus increasing, your problem is still related to external sounds being transferred to your inner ear by bone conduction, for you have noticed even when wearing earplugs and earmuffs you are still being affected.

The more you continue to wear earplugs and earmuffs to suppress normal everyday sounds, I believe you are making your situation worse. As I previously explained, I think you need professional help and recommend sound therapy and counselling. I am only making suggestions to you based on my experience with tinnitus and hyperacusis. The sooner you seek help the better it will be for you. Staying at home and avoiding external sounds from the outside environment will only make your situation more difficult to treat in my opinion and this will affect your mental well being. It is for this reason I believe you need counselling in addition to sound therapy and I recommend TRT, as it's the best treatment available if you can get it and in accordance to what I've described. This usually requires wearing 2 white noise generators and having regular counselling with a Hearing Therapist. Your healthcare provider will ultimately recommend the best treatment programme for you.

Your condition didn't happen overnight and will take time to treat. You need to be examined at ENT to make sure there is no underlying medical condition that is causing your symptoms. If all the tests are clear then a referral to a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist trained in the treatment and management of tinnitus and hyperacusis, is the best way forward, to put you back on the road to recovery.

Michael

This is some real good advice. This type of behavior has negative impacts on the mind and it can lead to fear of all noises.

On top of that as some members have said, they have developed hyperacusis based on the over protection of the ears....

 

[another sean]

Hi Sean,
Your condition didn't happen overnight and will take time to treat. You need to be examined at ENT to make sure there is no underlying medical condition that is causing your symptoms. If all the tests are clear then a referral to a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist trained in the treatment and management of tinnitus and hyperacusis, is the best way forward, to put you back on the road to recovery.

Michael

Hi @Michael Leigh

Thank you for your detailed post. I still get surprised when people give me advice here as I am not used to it since I have been left to my own demise in real life and I have no living family. So thank you for that. I did see my ENT almost 3 years ago and it got to a point to where he gave up. He said my condition was the worst he has ever seen. And he is the best ENT I have ever found. He sent me to a otolaryngologist at USC who was the head of the department as well and he offered ear aids and that was it. I have been conversing with Dr. Wilden and I did purchase his laser and he said LLLT was the best solution for me. Im sure he is biased a little bit towards it but it seemed like a good therapy to try. I'm pretty sure my T is related to sound. It all started with headphones, it spiraled out of control after a small classical concert and and my baseline rises from sounds only. It recently doubled in volume due to construction noise next door. It has increased in the past when I tried driving my car without hearing protection. I dont wear ear protection at home except when I use the laundry machine since its on the other side of my bedroom wall. My T was very faint in the beginning and I continued to go outside with hearing protection and its been raised every time I went out. Now my T is loud enough that I can hear it in the shower. So you can see my hesitation now to go out again even with or without hearing protection. The only thing that had helped was staying indoors for 2 years. My reactiveness was going down. Meaning it was harder to spike my T. many sounds that used to spike it, no longer did. So I was more resilient to sound. But I lost all of that due to that recent construction noise I encountered and now I am back to square one but my base is higher than ever before and its put me in fight or flight mode again. I am a bit desperate for help though. my health has deteriorated from being indoors and sedentary. I live alone, Ive begun having panic attacks which I never had before and I think about assisted euthanasia every day now. Would it be possible for to you recommend any doctors that I could email and get kind of a consultation from? I haven't used a phone in years except when I called 911 for the first panic attack. That would really be helpful if possible.

Thanks again
Sean

 

[fishbone]

Hi @Michael Leigh

Thank you for your detailed post. I still get surprised when people give me advice here as I am not used to it since I have been left to my own demise in real life and I have no living family. So thank you for that. I did see my ENT almost 3 years ago and it got to a point to where he gave up. He said my condition was the worst he has ever seen. And he is the best ENT I have ever found. He sent me to a otolaryngologist at USC who was the head of the department as well and he offered ear aids and that was it. I have been conversing with Dr. Wilden and I did purchase his laser and he said LLLT was the best solution for me. Im sure he is biased a little bit towards it but it seemed like a good therapy to try. I'm pretty sure my T is related to sound. It all started with headphones, it spiraled out of control after a small classical concert and and my baseline rises from sounds only. It recently doubled in volume due to construction noise next door. It has increased in the past when I tried driving my car without hearing protection. I dont wear ear protection at home except when I use the laundry machine since its on the other side of my bedroom wall. My T was very faint in the beginning and I continued to go outside with hearing protection and its been raised every time I went out. Now my T is loud enough that I can hear it in the shower. So you can see my hesitation now to go out again even with or without hearing protection. The only thing that had helped was staying indoors for 2 years. My reactiveness was going down. Meaning it was harder to spike my T. many sounds that used to spike it, no longer did. So I was more resilient to sound. But I lost all of that due to that recent construction noise I encountered and now I am back to square one but my base is higher than ever before and its put me in fight or flight mode again. I am a bit desperate for help though. my health has deteriorated from being indoors and sedentary. I live alone, Ive begun having panic attacks which I never had before and I think about assisted euthanasia every day now. Would it be possible for to you recommend any doctors that I could email and get kind of a consultation from? I haven't used a phone in years except when I called 911 for the first panic attack. That would really be helpful if possible.

Thanks again
Sean

I suggest that you get some counseling or therapy. I also live alone and I also have very intrusive tinnitus that is louder than shower and freeway noise. It's not easy at all and I totally understand your pain and frustrations. Getting out and seeing people, talking to them is VERY important. Do not stay inside your house all day, tinnitus can take over if we don't find activities that can distract us.

Staying Inside all the time, can also lead to depression. The loneliness can be depressing and I face it at times myself.