Who Can't Habituate or Can't Be Helped By TRT?

In my case its a vicious circle. Extreme T is giving me a depression. I was/am on several meds, I have seen several psychiatrists, I have been seeing a psychologist for over a year (talking and behavioral techniques did nothing for me)
So much for "there can a lot be done regarding depression" with extreme T.

Its like you're running behind trying to fix the depression with meds and other stuff but the T is always sending reinforcements I had no depression/fear/anxiety before T came along. Its not the depression that bugs me - when I get a good day and can only hear 2-3 of the ca. 6-8 sounds that I have then I feel completely different. (Good days are very rare tho)
In some cases T is just the root of all evil...As long as theres nothing that can cure it (or at least make it less loud), then it will be very hard to fight depression/fear that comes along with it.

And it is something different, when you had a depression or burnout that resulted in Tinnitus.

 

I don't know @NiNyu.. I really don't want to do any word fighting or heavy debating, but if you read my post above you'll find, that I was advocating my believe that majority of people put themselves in the too-severe-to-help-tinnitus group precisely out of depression, fear and anxiety, which is making them believe that they cannot adapt to their T.

Is your T much worst than the one I posted? My ears are kind of damaged..., I hear tinnitus of a person on the video at least 3 times louder than his voice... If your T is much louder than his, it sux of course ...Did you try steam cells therapy? I believe it helped @attheedgeofscience to reduce his monster T to less monster form..

My T is a mix of static hiss combined with whistle. It's loud as a person talking to me at around 2-3 meter distance on my good ear. I've had a several encounters with people that thought that their T was too severe to adapt.. We eventually discovered that the pitch and loudness of their T was not that different than mine. The realization that there are some people(Like me) that can live normally, even while facing loud T, was a great help to them..I believe that we are all capable of the same adaptation. Of course a lot depends on our motivation to get better..

Why ?

Not all people, that haven't overcome fear, anxiety and depression in 2 or more years, have T severe as yours, I guess... I know a lot of the that have T, that's lower than human voice and they are still convinced that they cannot be helped. I believe that they won't have a problem habituation to T when they get rid of anxiety and fear and I believe that negative posts, like a lot of yours. are one of the many things that are preventing them to reach habituation.

Obviously we will all be thrilled when we find the cure, but until then we have to live as best as we can.

I really don't think that I can bring anything fnew to this thread, so I'll guess I'l checked out.

best

 

Well I do know one doc it certainly helped! I understand people's hate on for TRT but why do people hate on Nagler so much. He has severe T and TRT worked for him! I doubt the dude is lying after 20 some odd years to make a tiny profit of which he states he donates to T research.

And no it isn't perfect, but if it helps someone not SUFFER from T or H then great!

It's a bit costly though for someone like me *out of work due to H* and frankly unless I am seeing Jastreboff (or Nagler) himself I am not sure I would do it...and even ol Jasty is reasonably priced.

A least it offers hope!

...alot of negativity here lately.....

 

I think it's most people here would much rather like to pop some pills and go on with their lives. I can understand that. For most of us our encounters with medecine has been just that. Go to the doc, and leave with a prescription that will make all your problems go away.

From what I've gathered so far, most people seem to think the only way to feel better is to have the phantom noise dissapear. When you learn that TRT does not attempt to do that, it might be very discouraging for the individual.

 

I suppose but in essence habituation is basically like the sound "disapearing" or you
don't suffer from it any longer and that is all @drnagler is trying to teach to everyone. Man he is quite evil eh? lol

Yea I did the pill thing and now I am stuck on these pills and will have to take a year to taper and worry that I may still get worse.

I think at the end of the day people just need to chill out...On these boards there is so much suffering and anger and I just am not in that place anymore despite my suffering. .and I also just want to do the best I can, and get better..whatever that means..

....keep it positive.... that's my mantra..I lived in hell for a long time, it got me no further in recovery. I just think that attacking eachother or making snide comments is useless...

oh well. .I am off for a run.

Peace out.

 

I'd like to try TRT but sadly it's far too expensive for my little wallet. I doubt it would work for me anyway. I'd happily pay the price if it was guaranteed to work but it's just not worth the risk for such a high cost. It's not a negative view I'm having, it's simply realistic. I've had it for two years & four months. A lot of doctors would say even if there were a cure, having it this long is irreversible. I understand cancer research is more important but tinnitus can & does lead to anxiety, depression, & suicide. Last I checked, suicide is not what humans want. So I would think researching a cure for this would be important too, considering there's next to no funding for brain cancer anyway because apparently brain issues aren't important either.
I've somewhat adapted to the tinnitus. Life is definitely still a struggle but I've come a long way compared to how I was when it first began. It took all my strength to not end my life, that's how loud & constant it is. I still have those thoughts here & there but it's become... normal, I guess. I used to suffer anxiety (long before the T) but when I have anxiety attacks now the T becomes more noticeable. I find as long as I'm calm & not in a silent area, I can manage it. But it will never be something that no longer bothers me, I can say that with great confidence.

 

I have had T for 10 years and had habituated to it without a doubt. It started out severe then tapered off with the help of masking and ignoring as best I could and I agree that one must work at not reacting to it but MASKING is a key element. Mine was from kidney surgery and either the anesthesia or vancomyacin. Over time, though it has gotten progressively worse especially in the last 2 years and I thing gravity, over time, pulls the ear structure of inner bones down and just as T gets louder when you open your jaw sometimes, I think it is possible gravity, over time might exacerbate the condition or poor kidney function will increase your cholesterol levels thereby causing it to get louder simply by sclerosis of the arteries which is common with poor kidney function.

As far as TRT, you can download an audio mixer and do notch therapy which tries to confuse the T signal and blend it into adjacent frequencies and make it less noticeable by retraining your brain . So you take a song with a lot of notes in the frequencies of your T. (Jazz works great but so does metal oddly enough)
Then you remove a notch of frequencies 100 HZ to each side of the sweet spot so like 2500hz T would be a 2400 to 2600 notch...just remove that notch of frequencies from each song. Then listen to the music at least 2 hours a day. Over time, the T signal should fade a bit in volume or be pushed to the background a bit more but may take a year or more.

 

The point is that it is your problem. You most likely can't change the pitch/loudness of your T. But you CAN change your response to it. Yes, you can. Once you do, you will "suffer" with it much less.

 

@Mike34 fair, if I chopped your leg off CAN you change your response to it so that you "suffer" much less?
I mean, that's essentially what you are telling me; it's possible.

 

You haven't met many amputees have you? Well it just so happens that I know a guy who lost his leg in Iraq. Of course it sucks. No denying that. But he is otherwise a pretty happy guy, and he doesn't sit at home sulking all day. I'm sure originally he thought nothing could be worse; but while I'm sure he's not happy about it, he still manages to live life and go on.

Last time you said something like this, you said that the only people you could imagine who could have worse tinnitus than you are people who're deaf. Yet, there are people who're deaf with tinnitus. But they still manage. I bring this up not to make you feel bad, but if you get out and meet people, you'll find that there is a whole world full of people who're in situations that absolutely suck. But the good news is that in most cases, these people do eventually return to their base-level happiness, or pretty close to it.

 

I think ninyu ment the initial chopping off part like the initial pain thats going to kick in.. Not the recovery..

 

Tinnitus doesn't end, the suffering the noise is relentless and never ending. The pain ends for that guy, the suffering for tinnitus never ends.

 

Oh ok, well then definitely no. Even with tinnitus, I don't think we can just instantly habituate; time is involved, so in that case, I agree with NiNyu.

But you're assuming that pain is the only thing that sucks about losing a leg. Sure pain ends, but what doesn't ever end is the fact that he only has one leg now. If you think that's not big deal, then may I suggest that you're taking your legs for granted.

 

You forget that we can replace limbs with robotic ones now, thus suffering ends. Any cure for tinnitus, sorry no, not yet. Sorry if I'm being straightforward. I just don't want to diminish peoples suffering. I'm sure the people with really bad tinnitus would give a limb or two to hear, relish silence again.

 

I know what youre trying to say but severe t is something totally different.. Ask anyone suffering badly if they rather keep the T or chop off a limb lnowing they will be relieved youll be surprised how many would say cut the leg off im on of them .. Ive even said if theres a way to cut ur auditory system and the t dissapears so be it ill learn sign language knowing im finally free and can have somewhat of a normal life again .. I know for some itll be hard to understand but many of us feel this way...i never felt like that with my mild t i would of said F*** that but tables have turned on me..

 

I'm not offended by your straight forwardness, so don't worry. But again, unless these robotic limbs are every bit as good as real limbs, then no, suffering never ends. And I understand you're saying you don't want to diminish peoples' suffering, but ironically you are. You're diminishing the suffering of amputees, acting like it's no big deal: "Oh their pain will go away"... "Robotic limbs, good as new!" etc.

 

Actually not surprising. When I was at the height of my suffering and I met this guy I was talking about, I actually thought he was the luckier one. Because I thought I'd rather have had a lost limb than have tinnitus. But now that I'm habituated and looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I'm sure glad that the cases aren't reversed!

 

Well, robotic limbs do have advantages and I personally see it as the future, think of Dues ex as an example. Real-life augmentations are amazing and help those people suffering. I see it as an advancement rather than a disadvantage.

 

And all that depends on how bad your tinnitus is, based on volume, frequency...Do you have reactive tinnitus, hyperacusis? I've had it all and let me tell you, it isn't pleasant. But just because you habituated doesn't mean it doesn't affect people badly and cause them to commit suicide.

 

Somehow I think you'd be thinking differently if you actually lost a limb. I mean, we don't live in a sci-fi movie. I had a close friend who got his hand blown off at July 4th about 20 years ago, and he can no longer box or play the guitar which were both important to him. He can't play video games either.

Sure, I'm not saying it is pleasant. See, we seem to go to extremes here. If I say, "There are worse things than tinnitus" you (and others) seem to translate this as, "Matt thinks tinnitus is a walk through the park". Nothing could be further than the truth! I'm not at all saying tinnitus doesn't suck. It does. I'm just saying there are definitely worse things. I know from experience that when you're in the height of suffering, it's nearly impossible to realize that.

 

Sci-Fi movie? These augmentations are for real, just google it. Anyway, anything that causes suffering sucks. Being a jew in world world 2 now that's true hell.

 

You're being disingenuous.

T sucks. Period. It's awful. But MANY people have it (tens of millions) and MANY don't suffer with it. That's a fact. So, all I'm saying is find a way to make your reaction to it less and less until you don't suffer with it. Getting off a Tinnitus board may be one way. I know it makes me think about mine more. But find a way, cause the sound aint going anywhere. That's all I was saying. Sorry for your pain.

 

Those tens of millions have mild tinnitus.

 

That's simply not true. I'm sorry you choose to believe that.

Now, is it harder to not suffer if you have bad tinnitus? Sure. But it's certainly possible and all starts with attitude. That's all I'll say on the subject. I honestly hope you can come to terms with it and lessen your suffering.

 

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10 million people in the UK have tinnitus that is mild...1% of those people have severe tinnitus, 60,0000. Now out of those people, we honestly don't know how bad their tinnitus is? Is it reactive, have they got hyperacusis. All these questions you have to ask yourself. It wasn't until the 90's that we knew it wasn't in the ear...And the only reason they knew that was because someone was deaf with tinnitus, they wouldn't have known otherwise...That shows me right there, it's underfunded in every single way possible. So no, tinnitus isn't taken seriously, because millions of people have mild tinnitus.

 

My reaction **does NOT** matter, T is killing me -- not my reaction or attitude about it.

T is a physical ailment, period. I don't understand why everybody is trying to sell us psychology. Maybe cos there's nothing else hence playing the psych card?

 

I would agree that tinnitus is a physical ailment.

The reason why psychology is 'sold' is because it can bring significant relief. For example, I have gone from scouting out trees in my local neighborhood with branches that were conveniently placed for me to hang myself from them, to being occasionally annoyed and distracted by the condition. I can now go for several hours, sometimes most of the day, without even hearing my tinnitus. Of course, it is entirely possible that my tinnitus isn't all that loud. But then, it sounds bloody loud and piercing to me most of the time, including right now.

The problem is that TRT is expensive, and it is not always easy to find someone who knows what they are doing.

But there are cheaper options.

One of them would be to acquire Jane Henry and Peter Wilson's book Tinnitus: A Self-Management Guide for the Ringing in your Ears (about $70 on Amazon right now) and to work one's way through all the exercises in it that are practical and designed to promote habituation. I'd recommend doing them systematically twice.

Unfortunately, that approach didn't work for me. The profoundly aversive emotions that tinnitus provokes prevented this cerebral technique - based on CBT - from having any impact. For me, thoughts are ephemeral, however realistic or unrealistic they might be, whereas destructive emotions are like tidal waves that can overwhelm a person and sweep them away.

So why mention this book at all? Because I know that it has helped so many others who would swear by it. My experience with CBT was far less typical.

CBT is also known to be clinically efficacious, with tangible before/after changes in the brain being detected on scans of people before and after they were treated for a spider phobia.

And if CBT doesn't work for you, there's MBCT or Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy. John Kabat-Zinn's Full Catastrophe Living is available for $0.01 on Amazon.com (plus postage) right now. Although strictly speaking, Kabat-Zinn outlines an 8-week programme of MBSR (Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction) in this publication, it's essentially the same method that is being described. It also goes by other names: vipassana, zazen etc.

Even that stalwart of New Atheism, Sam Harris, has apparently taken up the practice, which is Buddhist in origin. He writes about it in his latest book (Waking Up), which I haven't read yet. Harris also has tinnitus, so I must get around to it eventually.

After CBT didn't work for me, I acquired Full Catastrophe Living and failed to complete the 8 week programme twice over.

The third time I reasoned to myself that I had to give this approach a full and fair crack of the whip before I topped myself. And third time around, it seemed to do the trick.

What I think happened is that MBCT shaved the edges off the overwhelming anxiety, stress and suicidal despair that I was experiencing. This, in turn, resulted in me being less tormented by the sound. At the cerebral level, I then began to think about tinnitus the way people are meant to after doing CBT. So maybe MBCT is more holistic or something.

Of course, this post is simply an anecdote. And the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'fact'. Plus, I don't have hyperacusis or ear pain, only bog standard tinnitus. But I would venture one suggestion that might apply more generally: suck it and see.

In other words, by all means maintain a healthily sceptical atttitude to psychological approaches to tinnitus management, but at least give them a try before dismissing them. As you can see, I almost flunked CBT and MBCT. It was only with one last gasp effort that I got a handle on this thing myself. So who knows what might happen in other cases?

 

It is 2015 b...y f...g hell, and we still can't target this T directly. You have to do CBT you need to do all other sort of tricks to only learn to accept that this is you to the end of your poor existence. It is like you have a headache and you doctor is keep telling you "Sorry its nothing could be done learn to live like this".

 

Yes Geo i agree with you here. Without my leg i can seat on the sofa and watch a TV but with this noise I can not do that i am walking around the room and i am covering my ears with my palms all day.

 

In a sense, yes. Since most people seem to be in the boat that there is nothing that they can do about tinnitus, then we don't have a choice but to learn to live with it. For now, it's really as simple as that. What other choice is there assuming you don't want to end it all?