Acoustic CR® Neuromodulation: Do It Yourself Guide

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by jibs, Apr 24, 2013.

    1. unik

      unik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2013
      Mine is at an ultra high pitch (multi tone, modulating though) at around 14,700hz. My audiologist matched it at 16,000 hz so my guess it that I'm modulating between these 2 frequencies. Can this acoustic CR neuromodulation help? Is there anything else that I can do? It's so hard to even mask that thing.

      I'd appreciate if someone could help me create these acoustic CR tones. I'm trying to do this by myslef now but not sure if I get it right.
       
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    2. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Hmm, that is a tough one. They didn't use anybody above 12khz in the study. So there is no way to tell if it works. Also I think people with modulating tones were eliminated from the trial.

      16khz is pretty high. The forth tone would be 17.5khz. Could you hear that? Also I would be extremely worried about hearing loss due to long exposure to high frequency sounds.
       
    3. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      OK so I got that reason program....It is not straight forward at all...

      Don't suppose you could upload a template that I could use with it?
       
    4. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      @Louise did you see this thread? I thought this might interest you as you got disqualified from the real deal... :(
       
    5. SISKO
      Suicidal

      SISKO Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Hi Jibs.

      As far as I know, if you can modulate your tinnitus this doenst mean, that you are disqualified for that treatment.
      I know a german guy, who had 10 years Tinnitus and was able to modulate (like me and mostly 75 % of all Tinnitus Patients) and he had good success with CR. There were days, where it was almost silent and gone he told me.

      Unfortunateyl I have never heard again some news from this guy. I personally feel, he is much better therefore he doesnt take more action in the german tinnitus forum anymore.

      But as you said, its limited to the frequency 1ok Hz I think. Beyond that its hard or to adjust because of technical reason ? and most people doesnt hear the higher ones so good.

      We should wait until the result of the UK survey...

      I am also waiting for new Trials for hissing tinnitus..currently its only for tonal type.
       
    6. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      That sample was set for 6Khz I think (possibly 7). The sample is directly from the device, it isn't a very good quality unit and the tones are very low volume as the earphones sit right in your ear canal, I had to boost the volume of the sample I took. They have to be the same sine wave sounds as that is the only sound wave with a pure tone, no harmonics. I guess it's just the reproduction quality. 4-6 hours a day is a lot to wear them, I'm not convinced that they know how long should be using them for at this stage, my instructions are quite vague. I'm told only that they should be audible and soft, use at any time but keep a record of if it was quiet, or in a louder environment. Just don't use when driving or operating machinery.
      photo.JPG
       
    7. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      Jibs, Reason is not too difficult once you get into it, but it does require a little knowledge of audio kit. I can send you the individual tones I've made - 400Hz up to 16000Hz in 100 Hz jumps - and the patch for the NNXT. I'll have to e-mail though as the audio samples are 28mb in total, send me a contact and I'll sort it.

      Unik, I wouldn't like to produce tones that high as you have to ramp the volume up slightly as you move up the frequencies even though I will synthesise at the same level, Jibs is right that I think it will impact on your hearing, plus the tones will be virtually pitched the same at that level.

      Sisko, we may still be able to do something for broader range tinnitus, experimentally, I can play multiple tones at the same frequency range as the tinnitus. For example if you can identify that your tone is at 6Khz and about 1Khz wide we could try playing all 10 tones in a 1Khz band at the same distances specified. It would be worth trying to see how it works and I'd be happy to synthesise them for any experimentation. After all, that is all they do in their research. They start with a theory, test it, modify it, test again etc. We can do that here just as well, if not more efficiently, as we aren't dragged down by the need to create something that can be patented and profited from. It's just playing with sound.
       
    8. unik

      unik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2013
      Thanks Steve. Yes, I'm worried about doing any additional damage to my hearing. I can actually hear the tones up to about 17,000hz. I don't think my T is at 16,000hz, as this audiologist said (he made some other mistakes that basically made me lose trust in him - like selling me $2,000 device that isn't meant for ultra high frequency T).

      I hope there is something I can do with this thing.

      I also would be interested in your audio samples. You can just email it to rados10 at gmail.com. Thank you.
       
    9. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      The samples are just 1 second sound files, it's mapping them into a sampler and creating a sequence that works the therapy. If you can do that or you have Reason I can send them to you.

      Have you tried the resource that Markku mentioned at AudioNotch to try and match your tinnitus frequency? It can sometimes be confusing to match tinnitus at different octaves so it may be lower than measured. It could well be at the lower octave which would be around 8000Hz. Audiologists don't usually have the equipment to measure above 8000Hz, did this one have something different? Any devices that they sell you can often be made yourself with an iPod and comfortable headphones. Usually better if you design the sound therapy specifically for your needs. They try and use fancy terms like 'fractal tones', which is in essence another way of saying a random tone generator.
       
    10. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Yeah, these medical solutions are so grossly over priced. I am doing some project work for a company that creates tracking and duress solutions at the moment. They charge 1800 for their IP phones in the hospital. It is basically a custom wifi phone...that probably costs them less than 50 dollars to make. I know there are some companies in Australia charging 800 dollars for notched music. Profiteering on other people's suffering is sad.
       
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    11. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Mate I can't seem to google/youtube a guide on how to use reason to create the sample sequence. I have loaded the nn-xt 1 thing. But after that I can't see how to add the samples into the sequence bar.

      What is the wording to find out exactly what I need to do?
       
    12. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      Morning, put all the files in a single folder, open the song file in reason (ANM hertz synth.reason). It should then say there are missing samples, click on 'locate sounds' - 'search folder', then highlight the folder with the samples in and click 'OK'. This should load all of the samples into the NNXT. You'll see 3 windows in reason, you're interested in the bottom one. Click once on the orange bar to select it (this is the tone pattern). There should be a tool window on the screen, under the 'pitch' heading you'll see 'transpose'. The sequence is set up around 8000Hz, each semitone you transpose will move it 100Hz. So to set it for 9000Hz tinnitus enter 10 in the box, then click 'apply', for 7000Hz tinnitus enter -10 in the box and select 'apply'. When you click on play you should hear that the sequence has changed. When you're happy with the sequence, click on the 'file' menu at the top, select 'export loop as audio file', select a location and file format (if you're on PC it'll probably just be .wav), it will then ask for quality, 16 bit 44.1Khz is fine. You should then have your file coded quickly and ready to use / code to MP3.
       
    13. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Ahh ok, I was hitting a problem which is why it wasn't making sense. When I try to load that .reason file. It said upsupported file type. So I could only create the instrument using the hertz synth file.

      What version did you make it in. I have version 5 atm.
       
      • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      OK so I need to source version 6. Can you save in legacy format for version 5?
       
    15. unik

      unik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2013
      Yes, they are... I'm just concerned that that "therapy" worsened my T. Thus I'm afraid to try anything else now... It sounds like you guys don't recommend that I try ACN myself for the frequency that I have.

      Thanks for your help everyone.
       
    16. unik

      unik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2013
      I'm not sure what equipment he used. I've used an iPhone app before to try to match my frequency, but you're right. I think the first time I tried it, I thought it was more like 11,000hz but I could also match it later at 14,700hz, so I'm not sure if it changed or what... Is there anything, any therapy that you know of that can potentially help me?
       
    17. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      Looked all over and it seems you can't, I've mailed you a midi file to import though, hopefully that should get around it.
       
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    18. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      It's difficult to advise, they don't really know what definitely causes it yet so you can't say what definitely helps. Unfortunately you will likely need to try a variety of things and keep a diary / notes of what works for you, just be careful when it costs much money (as you've probably already learned) and be wary of the scams, you will eventually find a combination of therapies that work for you. I'm big on my sound therapy, distraction and masking, trying to get the stress response down. I can synthesise a masking sound if you tell me what sounds you find the most soothing and masking?
       
    19. unik

      unik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2013
      Hard to say. Probably nature sounds but unfortunately I never had to listen to any stuff like that so it's all big adjustment to me. Not sure if we can do any masking with nature sounds - I tried. I really don't know what might work for me.

      With regards to keeping diary, I'm actually doing it. And I have a question on that: how soon after I eat something or do something should I know if it aggravated or helped my T? I'm having trouble finding any patterns and timing of how to read these signs is so important.
       
    20. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Is notched music effective at that super high frequency?

      That would be safe.

      Downloading the reason 6.5 demo, maybe I can find a serial or something.
       
    21. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Damn, apparently no one has cracked it. And the demo is useless because you can't open files.

      Back to version 5 to try again.
       
    22. aka

      aka Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2011
      Hi Steve H-
      Apparently my tinnitus is at 7258. Any chance you could make a file for me? I'd sincerely appreciate it. I'm ready to put in the hours!
       
    23. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Alright I got it working, the semi tone transpose thing is a bit weird. It changes it sometimes and sometimes doesn't. Also the default value started at 11. I hope I am editing it in the right place. Usually increasing worked, but decreasing didn't. But also it seems that midi made the sounds sharp with no fade in/out.
       
    24. Suresh
      Balanced

      Suresh Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      Hi Steve H
      Pls can u make me 3500Hz file
       
    25. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      3500 for Suresh and 7300 for aka.

      My instructions from the trial are to listen to the tones at a soft level, just audible, for between 4-6 hours a day. You obviously want to avoid the sound being loud enough where it will have any impact on your ears. Even though the trial doesn't instruct so, I wouldn't recommend using them in a noisier environment as it just adds to the level of noise and I'm sure that can't be a good thing.
       

      Attached Files:

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    26. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Research Team Awareness

      Location:
      Sheffield, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      The fade in and out should have been on the NNXT patch, I guess it really isn't backwards compatible at all then. If you can find a sampler you could set it up with the tones, though it does take a bit of doing. As far as I'm aware Propellerhead really worked hard on making Reason 6 crack-proof.
       
    27. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      How long have you been participating steve? Have you noticed any reduction. I am confused as hell about my T. I can't match the frequency. The audiologist said it where I would be where I have hearing loss which is around 6000-7300. But that sounds too high and when I make a tone sequence for that, I don't get any RI and can still notice my tinnitus in the silent portions. I can get some RI on the sample which is based on 4khz. But that sounds too deep to match my tinnitus.

      So complex = /
       
    28. aka

      aka Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2011
      Steve H - Thanks so much! Looking forward to trying this.
       
    29. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      jibs
      Studious

      jibs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      long time ago
      Hmm I downloaded the ones you just posted and it sounds the same. Wonder if it matters. The one in the sample sounds like a whistle, but yours sound like a xylophone.
       
    30. Vkis

      Vkis Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/16/2012
      thanks Steve!
       

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