Agnostics “R” Us...

That one cracked me up.

 

I liked the following, and didn't quite know where it fit in. Finally decided this thread was probably the best place. Plus, I feel @Jazzer won't mind a bit. -- The full 3-min video story HERE.
-
A few years ago, a small scrap of paper that Albert Einstein had scribbled a hasty note on sold at auction for $1.56 million! Einstein had given that note to a hotel bellman in Tokyo, Japan, in the fall of 1922, just before receiving the Nobel Prize in physics. What exactly did Einstein write on that note, and why did it become so valuable almost 100 years later?

 

@Lane
...er...Lane...has he said ‘hi’ to you buddy?
Do tell...x
(asking for a friend)

 

I'm still waiting for a hi. It's been 68 years and still no voice. As I said before, it was all created by a con artist who found a fool.

 

Hey Dave, I always enjoy a shout out from you. -- To answer your question, well it's, er, a bit complicated.

I've posted quite a bit on this thread about my spiritual search earlier in my life; this post seems to connect pretty directly to your question. In it, I review how I came to reject Christianity, and the god of Christianity. That meant rejecting the notion that god was a person, or that it was a "he", or masculine in nature. -- From the above linked post:

These days, I do on a daily basis connect with that special kind of love I'd been looking for. Literally everytime I sit (or lay) down and do some of the spiritual techniques I've learned, I experience a cloak of love, and trust, and warmth engulf me. Some would call that the presence of god. I don't use that term because of my early religious training about a vengeful and jealous god. The two just don't mix.

So, has "he" said hi to me lately? Well, it kind of reminds me of something Mark Twain apparently said after a woman asked him a question with a reference to god. As I recall, he said something like, "I guess she doesn't realize god and I aren't exactly on good speaking terms these days. (Mark Twain had a somewhat famous irreverence for god). I would have to say that the god of Christianity and I aren't exactly on good speaking terms these days either.

 

Hiya Lane,

As I think you know - my attempted indoctrination ran from birth to age 18y, but was an abject failure.

My first doubts emerged over the math for feeding 5,000 with just five loaves and three little fishes, and the need for twelve baskets to effect the tidy up afterwards.
But what really ‘did me in’ was attempting to reconcile a loving Heavenly Father with the a god who was prepared to torture me in the lakes of fire for eternity if I chose unbelief.

If that is who god is - I’d rather go without than submit to blackmail through cowardice.

Who wants a god like that - not me - and it’s all written up both in Matthew and Revelations.

My only spiritual ‘foray’ is my hour of meditation in a nice hot bath, every morning, when I start by thinking of Sylvie, the adorable wife I have just lost, and drift off into a calming peace.

Thank you for coming back buddy,
Dave xx
Jazzer

 

Well Dave you have just said it all.

When my father who never spoke about religion or gods sent me to a Catholic school, I learnt very quickly that the god these effing nuns pray to well he must be one sadistic bastard. Because those nuns worshipped their fucking measuring sticks for beating children if you didn't get up and pray every hour. The nuns enjoyed it.

 

Hey Dave -- Since you seemed to be very curious about people's religion or spiritual orientation, I thought I'd share a link to a (very nice) 2 1/2 minute video that may give you some insight into my own. -- As always, I hope you're doing well!

ECKANKAR: Invitation to a Golden Wisdom Temple - YouTube

 

Not believing in a higher power does absolutely nothing for your tinnitus, if anything it makes it worse...

I can't wait for the day when I can be heaven with Jesus Christ and he takes my tinnitus away...

And if all of religion isn't real? Then guess what? I won't know because I'm dead. So it's better to believe in it than to not... Bottom line.

 

I submit that ‘belief’ is not a choice.
It’s more basic than that.
I could not decide to believe.
I see no reality in it.
It’s more a matter of basic conviction.
Having said that - I have no idea whether God exists or not.
Nobody knows.
Nobody can know.
One can have faith that God exists, but that does not make it a reality.

 

Hey Dave,

How are you doing these days? As well as you can be I hope. -- Wanted to let you know I watched a video tonight that made me think of you. The reason being is it's a music video (I know you're into music), and it's a song about a man's love for his family (I know you're into love). The video feels to me like it "tingles" with love, and I thought maybe you'd get a similar sense. -- A friend of mine who I sent it to today said she cried while watching it.

I hesitate somewhat to post it however, because he mentions "God" in the video. Interestingly however, he almost always paraphrases it with the words "Love of the Light and Sound". It's a kind of semantics that's not particularly aligned with traditional thinking about Christianity and God. In that sense, I thought you might find it interesting to hear a man sing about "God" in a different light than what most people are used to.

For context, the singer/musician belongs to the same spiritual path I'm on (though I've never met him). -- In a sense, I believe we're all on a similar spiritual journey, and different religions are sometimes hardly more than artificial barriers. For me, it's kind of all a matter of which path we take to eventually learn that love and kindness are the most important things in life. In that sense, I thought for sure you could relate to the video.

Take really good care going forward my friend. Wishing you the very best! -- Ditto for @Star64 and @Daniel Lion.

Dance of Life -- by Jim Hagan

 

Nice one buddy - thank you.
Personally I don’t feel guided, but I particularly liked the romantic heart-shaped pictures.
I do know that love and kindness - is all.
❤️❤️
Dave
xxx

 

Thanks for posting this link Lane. Enjoyed the "bluegrass" style tune and the pictures. Neat to see an extended family as they have seemingly are living in an American dream. Too few people in the world get to live in this type of dream.

 

Hi Dave. Hope you're doing ok.

Matthew was quite Old-Testament. And I'm not sure what John was smoking when he wrote Revelations.

There are parts of the Bible that I believe are allegorical. Many Bible students smarter than me have given good reasons why that applies here.

I guess I'm a fairly liberal Christian compared to many you see online. I support LGBTQ rights and justice for the poor for example. I would rather err on the side of love than believe in a God of fire and brimstone.

And I could be wrong, but despite everything, despite all our present troubles - at the end of the day I like to think God would rather "err" on the side of love too.

 

I like the emphasis expressed in your views Mister Muso, but can never get further than my conviction that nobody knows, nor can know, whether any god whatsoever exists.

We simply cannot know.

One can of course believe ‘through faith’ that one does, but that inevitably falls short of knowledge.

I personally cannot give praise to an entity that may or may not exist.

Neither can I persuade my otherwise logical mind to accept a phenomenon because it is comforting or expedient to do so.

If god/God does exist then I hope he is a whole lot kinder than the biblical god/God depicted.

 

I agree. But there are good arguments that gods of major religions do not exist, I think this article provides quite nice summary:

Top 10 Reasons God Doesn't Exist

And this:

Would you then praise him/her/it if you knew it existed?

In my opinion if prayer/praising was effective that would imply that god has narcissistic nature. Otherwise if god was good and omnipotent it would help people suffering and support those who help others regardless if they pray to him/her/it or if they believe at all.

 

To each their own...

 

Hi Adas - of course you do realise that you are preaching to the converted.
(Ooops - I mean the unconverted.)

Nobody knows any more about god than I do.
Not the Pope nor the Archbishop of Canterbury.
They can know all they want to know about theology, which of course is all conjecture, but they cannot know more about god.
They have never met him nor had any dialogue with him.
Many people do not wish to think along these lines.
The god of the bible has been terrorising generations for aeons.

I’m with you brother.

 

I read this post this morning and thought about this article on "free will" I read yesterday. I am at least an agnostic when it comes to thinking about if people have free will or not. I figure at the least we have much less free will than we think we do.

Anyway, you said "I submit that belief is not a choice" is probably accurate or at least at this point unknowable.

See the whole article here: [URL='https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/apr/27/the-clockwork-universe-is-free-will-an-illusion]The clockwork universe: is free will an illusion?[/URL]

 

How do you know the Archbishop of Canterbury hasn't met God or had dialogue with him?

 

Oh, I had no intention to be preaching. I've read this thread before posting and I am all with you as well. I wanted to trigger some good discussion as I was really curious, if you would praise god if you knew it existed. Because myself I am not sure what I'd do.

True. I am always amazed to so many smart people around me are religious and I wonder if it is fear that keeps their faith strong? Because if it is not fear, I don't understand why someone smart would like to worship such cruel, egocentric god.

But just to be fair, I think the New Testament despite being very archaic provides some good moral guidelines about sharing and helping others. Unfortunately many believers seem to ignore them or simply never read them, thinking that praying is enough to get them into the paradise. Which is also very egoistic approach.

 

‘Oh please......’

 

Interestingly enough there is no mention of eternal damnation in the Old Testament.
We have to wait for Matthew to furnish that information.

 

I'm an atheist and I'm genuinely confused by the above quote. Since when did supporting the poor become an extreme position in the Christian faith?? Jesus was incredibly compassionate towards the poor - it was a huge part of his teachings. What happened to 'it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God'?

Sometimes it seems like religion, which for all its faults was intended as a guide for being a good person, has now been co-opted by certain groups to preach entirely the opposite of its original message.

Nothing against you, Mister Muso - I know this isn't your position and I think that you're being a 'true' Christian.

 

lol, Jesus was very clearly a liberal. Almost like a stereotypical one, actually. I'm with you though @Tanni, when I see a good religious person, I brighten up because it's so rare...

 

I have no idea whether any god exists.
I don’t ‘believe’ in one, but I cannot know.
However, good people do exist.
That is beyond all doubt.
I believe in them and I love them.
Kindness is all there is.

 

That has become my form of religion as well. Wishing you well.

 

Pleased to hear it Zugzug x