Any experience with Valencia Clinic in Tallinn?

[Per]

When I hear of clinics thats claim to have a good track record in regards to T treatment I always try to retain a degree of healthy skepticism, but I've been reading up on some patient stories in reliable newspapers in my part of the world (Scandinavia) that writes that a place called Valencia Clinic in Tallinn have made good progress. I've also spoken to one of the patients on the phone now. This clinic caters specially for the Scandinavian market and it's not that extremely expensive as many of these treatment centers are. 8 days of intensive treatment cost 1.200 Euros.

Their web page looks like something from 1995 but I don't wanna judge the book by the cover, some slick snake oil companies look like fantastic online, so I guess that can work both ways. The T docs. at this clinic are all Russians and they claim to have been treating soldiers with severe T for a long time before going private. Anyone been there? Or herad of anyone that's tried it before? The treatment can be read on the pages.

http://oresus.no/engelsk/rammer.html

 

[erik]

Interesting never heard of this clinic. Their treatment consists of:

1. Hearing Test.
2. Medications.
3. Daily consultation of a doctor.
4. Massages on the recommendation of a doctor.
5. Vitamin injections.
6. Special-massage of the ear.

Not sure what advantages this clinic would have over any other. I can't see how vitamin injections or massages are going to do the T any good, but you might feel good. I would be skeptical but that is just the way I am. They do used the word "cured" in the 2nd paragraph on their main page. That to me is a red flag. This clinic has been around for a good while. I think if they really had effective treatments especially in this day and age with the internet, we would know about it and be booking our trips.

 

[Per]

The guy on the front page that organizes trips to this clinic says he used to have severe T himself but after treatments at this clinic he says he has only sporadic low T, he further says that inner ear hair cells that are kneeling down can rise and start working again, that's on the contrary to main medical knowledge, but he was very firm in the believe of that. The guy may be right cause after all everything in regards to the inner ear hair cells seems to be theories, after all there's no way of getting a visual reference in that section.

There are some hand written testimonials on the page and according to the newspaper that referred to this clinic not everyone gets better (not a bomb shell) but many do. I've given up adding treatment concepts and logic to my calculations cause were not getting anywhere with the traditional ENT approach anyhow, so to me the answers could be as exotic and weird as they like to as long as it works. I exchanged some emails with a former T sufferer that actually got 100% cured but doing physical head down exercises to promote hair cell growth, that says a lot about how intricate and unique treatment can be in this game of T. Perhaps we should treat this as the sport of MMA - no rules.

When it comes to the clinic I really don't know. Worth investigating further anyhow. I'm sure if I contact my governmental supported hearing loss association I would probably get the good old "nah, don't bother. Stick to the traditional treatment concepts, like coping an learning to deal with it. Much safer." They sure hate real progress over there.

 

[Markku]

Anybody can start a clinic.

Anybody can claim something "cured" or alleviated their tinnitus.

Anybody can make up medical claims.

Anybody can write testimonials out of thin air.

The question is is one willing to try unproven and alternative methods to alleviate their tinnitus.

There's nothing out there that suggests vitamin injections or ear massages cure tinnitus.

In my opinion it's borderline ridiculous to even entertain the thought that some sort of ear massage could revive hair cells.

This clinic to me sounds like a week's spa treatment with some belief treatments added in the mix.

I completely agree with erik.

This is the same thing as any run-of-the-mill alternative tinnitus "treatment"; if one has the money & the urge to try a treatment that is not based on any valid research or widely accepted medical knowledge, then go for it.
Nobody should expect miracles from this though, and more than likely it does absolutely nothing - except maybe makes you less stressed - spa treatments and massages tend to do that. So in that way it can be a nice week's vacation.

Yep, I don't appreciate clinics or treatment websites touting the word cure or effective treatment without any merit behind the claims.

 

[daedalus]

What Eric and Markku said.

If you want to try out experimental treatment there is the Regensburg TRI clinic.

http://www.tinnituszentrum-regensburg.de/a_pdfs/Multidisciplinary Tinnitus Clinic Regensburg.pdf

They try TMS stimulation. The most cutting edge clinic i knew of was the Antwerp TRI clinic but i am afraid it is closed now for and undefined time. There is a contact page with an email. http://www.brai2n.com/clinic/TRI/index.html It seems they have moved from an hospital to another.From UZA Antwerp to St Augustinus private hospital Antwerp But the situation is not clear, because there is still a reference to the original clinic and the old hospital (the UZA).

http://www.uza.be/brai2n-onderzoeks-en-behandelcentrum-voor-neuromodulatie-van-het-uza

And no matter how cutting edge they are, the successes are still very limited.

 

[Per]

As I initially write I'm equipped with a skeptical mind and of course I don't believe in everything a clinic writes, however I get a little more interested if I'm able to talk to a person that knows the names of everyone in the governmental hearing loss foundation/association and tells me that he has tried to inform them of his T recovery without anyone there wanting to listen. It's sounds like a typical established medical environments reaction to all things external. I don't think the guy is lying about his recovery but no one knows what made him loose his T completely, it could of course have been natures miracle, or something else, but it happened straight after he was treated at the clinic. He's not the only one recovering totally from severe T trough what I have stopped calling alternative treatment - I'm tempted to call any ENT alternative at this point, cause God knows I haven't met any knowledge there! So, who's to say what's alternative medicine when there are no tradition medicine to talk about?

For something to be alternative we need a counter option, somethings that's not alternative. But in context of T we have none! Zero. Nada. Nothing. In cancer treatment they at least have a stable traditional medicine approach, they attack the bad cells with poison. They have a traditional medical approach so the counter options are alternatives. But with T there's no such thing as a working medical attack approach, no program that incorporates chemical medicine to attack the problem. So, I'm getting quite upset by all this "alternative" theories. It doesn't make sense with T. I don't encourage snake oil or rubbish, as a matter of fact I wish them hell. But I do accept treatment methods that may seem both weird and even mad compared to what the average ENT jerk would think. His standard is set at "cope with it" anyhow and who's even remotely interested in his filth?

I won't participate in any treatment concepts without receiving logical answers to any critical question I have, I'm in the process of getting answers right now - or not. I'm not judging by written testimonials alone, I need to speak verbally to those who claim to be healed or free from T and I need to check them up financially as well. It's like buying a house, you do investigate as far as you can but eventually you need to add some portions of trust as well. There's no guarantees to "traditional" medicine either, whatever that is. I've been damaged by classic medicine treatment more times than I can count. It can even create T for crying out loud. This is not a good day, my volume is max and it's been going on raging mad levels for weeks with no rest. Guess I'm willing to try anything at the moment.

Perhaps we should make a do or die list that we can use to find out if they are snake oilers or for real?

 

[carlover]

There is a Lapdancing club In london ,5 hours on a friday will give me wonderful distraction techniques that nullifies my Tinnitus. Sadly its only symptomatic treatment as soon as I leave the place ,I can hear it again.

A bit like the establishment on the thread I reckon

 

[erik]

There is a Lapdancing club In london ,5 hours on a friday will give me wonderful distraction techniques that nullifies my Tinnitus. Sadly its only symptomatic treatment as soon as I leave the place ,I can hear it again.

A bit like the establishment on the thread I reckon

and it costs more than Neuromonics haha

 

[Per]

There is a Lapdancing club In london ,5 hours on a friday will give me wonderful distraction techniques that nullifies my Tinnitus. Sadly its only symptomatic treatment as soon as I leave the place ,I can hear it again.

A bit like the establishment on the thread I reckon

Well, I don't think that club is saying that they can help 7 out of 10 with severe T. But I guess they're okay with everything else. Anywho, we need to be both skeptical and open for new treatments cause as I wrote we are getting nowhere as of right now. When theres no medical treatments in existence for T there can be no alternative treatments either. With no option there can be no counter option or alternatives. They are all just treatments, the outcome is different in both cases.

 

[Breeze]

When looking at the main remedies offered by this clinic, I doubt it's really effective in any significant number of cases. From what I've learned about T, unless there's a reason to suspect it's caused by some kind of inflammation or very bad overall health, there's no reason why vitamin injections or even some kind of smart medicine might help. Maybe massage might help, if the problems can be linked to blood circulation problems, otherwise I see little use for it. Actually tried a bit of an easy massage technique today I found on line, and it seemed to give a very slight temporary relief, but nothing spectacular or durable. Not really encouraging enough to pursue...

 

[carlover]

Hi Per,I was only having a bit of a giggle,no disrespect intended.
Im as open minded as anyone ,you only have to check my wallet to see how open minded when it comes to T.
But there doesnt seem anything of much excitement about what they do does there? Not really.

Best,Pete

 

[murray johnson]

I went to the Tallinn clinic twice back in 2004 and again in 2005. The part of the treatment they don't describe was a daily injection of Hydrocortisone (a steroid) into the cavity behind each eardrum via the passages from the nose. Of course they checked that the eustachian tubes were clear before they did this. They also had a pulsing air pump which when applied at the ear could move the eardrums in & out at quite low frequencies (10-20 Hz I'd guess) and help keep it flexible. There were other daily vitamin injections & water/swedish style massages. A lot of very helpful advice was given (give up caffeine, smoking, alchohol). It was a very calm, quiet atmosphere & nice food was served up.

They took a very dim view of typical Western ENT surgeons/specialists whose invasive techniques they regarded as little better than butchery.

The clinic was called the Valentina Clinic back then but changed its name shortly afterwards to the Valencia Clinic.

 

[Stina]

I went to the Tallinn clinic twice back in 2004 and again in 2005. The part of the treatment they don't describe was a daily injection of Hydrocortisone (a steroid) into the cavity behind each eardrum via the passages from the nose. Of course they checked that the eustachian tubes were clear before they did this. They also had a pulsing air pump which when applied at the ear could move the eardrums in & out at quite low frequencies (10-20 Hz I'd guess) and help keep it flexible. There were other daily vitamin injections & water/swedish style massages. A lot of very helpful advice was given (give up caffeine, smoking, alchohol). It was a very calm, quiet atmosphere & nice food was served up.

They took a very dim view of typical Western ENT surgeons/specialists whose invasive techniques they regarded as little better than butchery.

The clinic was called the Valentina Clinic back then but changed its name shortly afterwards to the Valencia Clinic.

Im for Tallinn and Ive never heard of such a clinic. Do you have a website or an address?

 

[Markku]

Im for Tallinn and Ive never heard of such a clinic. Do you have a website or an address?

It's in the first post, but here's too: http://oresus.no/engelsk/rammer.html