Audion Therapeutics Trial

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Aaron123, May 20, 2017.

    1. Paulmanlike

      Paulmanlike Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      30 per cent showing improvements?

      I don't know why people think that's bad. I would be more weary however if it was a tinnitus drug that said 30% showed improvement because of how hard it is to get accurate measures of improvement for tinnitus.

      But hearing loss is a different game.

      The part that got me though, is that it hopes to 'partially' restore hearing. Partially?? We want perfect hearing, but that's a move in the right direction.

      Anyway, if anybody comes across more information and correspondence please share!!!

      I have no detectable hearing loss myself on a normal audiogram, but my ears ring 24/7. As far as I know, my tinnitus is caused by synaptic damage in the cochlear, and I think the hidden hearing loss drugs is my hope that restores synapses rather than focusing on regenerating hair cells from Audion and Frequency. So I should be focused more on Otonomy and the Hough pill/injection that will more likely do something to cure or treat my own tinnitus?
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
    2. patorjk

      patorjk Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several reasons
      Until there's data back from Frequency's Phase II study on tinnitus, I wouldn't be more focused on one solution over another. FX-322 could wind up be the solution for everyone, or it could wind up just being the solution for some (or in the worst case, none of us). We won't know until we get data back.

      And even if it is only the solution for some, you could never really be sure which drug to take (unless they come up with some kind of testing mechanism to see if the drug would work for you). Just thinking out loud, if it turns out these drugs only work for certain types of tinnitus, fixing tinnitus could wind up being rather expensive. You might end up having to try several different drugs before something works (assuming all of the drugs currently in the pipeline make it to market).
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    3. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      They referred to them as phase 1 and phase 2 clinical trials, so I would guess the latter.
       
    4. Coleoptere
      Alone

      Coleoptere Member

      Location:
      The Hague
      Tinnitus Since:
      2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bell's Palsy, hearing loss
    5. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      I don’t understand why everyone is so gloomy about this drug. We’ve only seen some rudimentary results on the research website of the European Union. They even state there Audion wants to pursue further research and trials and aims to have it on the market within 7 years. Furthermore, the website says 35% of all patients showed hearing improvement. That’s great news as far as I’m concerned considering there’s still no treatment and they still have plenty of room for improving the drug. For example, unlike Frequency they haven’t tried using a gel as a delivery method. Maybe this drug could even function as a supplemental drug to FX-322 with FX-322 inducing supporting cell growth and Audion’s drug transdifferentiating those new supporting cells into hair cells. That would counter the biggest con of this drug, which is that it depletes supporting cells.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    6. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      This is either good news or bad news but the Audion Therapeutics website is down.

      https://www.audiontherapeutics.com/

      This could mean two things. They could be updating the website to add Phase 2 clinical trial results or they shutting down the website after the EU Horizon 2020 posted about their results already.
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    7. xyz

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      This is bad news. But this adds to our general impression that the trial was unfortunately a failure. Probably we don't hear anytime soon anything from them. Maybe in seven years.
       
    8. Turgy

      Turgy Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I can access their website as normal.
       
    9. xyz

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      Ah yes, you have to tell your browser to access it via http and not https.
       
    10. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      I don’t understand the information on the EU website if this drug is a total failure.
       
    11. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      My impression is the current drug did not meet their endpoints but they believe maybe a similar drug with a similar method (Gamma Secretase Inhibitor) may be usable with further research. It appears that this is the end for LY3056480, though, unless I'm vastly misinterpreting things.
       
    12. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Which part of the website tells you that? I only read that the drugs needs further development, but that could also mean they want to finetune dosage, delivery method, etc. They would not have posted they hope to release in 7 years if this was a total failure. I also believe this drug could work quite nicely with FX-322 or any other drug that induces supporting cell growth.
       
    13. xyz

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      Why do they then not publish their complete results? Probably because they are not satisfied with it.
       
    14. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/415956-a-regenerative-therapy-for-hearing-loss

      "Although further development of the GSI inhibitor is required" is the phrase that stuck out to me. It didn't say further testing or adjusting of dosage, it said development. But maybe I am reading too much into that.
       
    15. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      I think we’re getting into semantics here, but I don’t see why developing a drug couldn’t include dosage or a different delivery method. These trials were done with public money. What I’m reading is that they want a private sector partner to get it onto the market within 7 years.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    16. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I suppose it is up to interpretation but taken in context with the lack of hard data and the CEO saying they hadn't had their Eureka moment yet, it's not the horse I would bet on.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    17. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Well, I wouldn’t bet on any one drug that’s in development right now. A much more likely scenario is where you need multiple treatments like with a lot of other complex diseases.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    18. Alex0o_o0
      Confused

      Alex0o_o0 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/10/2018 - 04/04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Whiplash/concussion - Sound trauma
      Get your synapse count up with Hough pill, grow some nice luscious locks with fx-322 ,reboot brain with some good ol' neuromodulation and you're good as new. And if that doesn't work you'll have the refined trobalt pill to make your brain shut up. Ah, I can't wait for 2030, just 10 more years of noise!
       
      • Funny Funny x 4
      • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    19. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      The fact that FX322 has regrown hair cells in explanted cochleas and the improvements seen already in phase 1 at low dosages cannot be denied. Audion had no such feats. I would not compare them at all in terms of promise.
      Edit not to mention depletion of support cells where FX is superior.
      I know you were not directly comparing them but I see some reasons to be much more optimistic about FX than Audion.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
    20. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      On the EU website it says that they had hearing improvements in 35% of subjects. Not too shabby. Not denying the con of depleting supporting cells. That’s why I’m saying they could be complimentary to each other of either one doesn’t yield enough results. I don’t understand the skepticism with regards to this drug. It’s not like there are tons of drugs available or in human trials for hearing loss.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    21. serendipity1996

      serendipity1996 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown but suspect noise-induced
      Yes exactly and we have evidence from their recent study that a therapeutic dose successfully reached its destination in the cochlea.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    22. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      I just received an email from the lead researcher. She says that they’re still analysing long term results and that COVID-19 caused some delay. I pointed out that the EU website already has some results, so I guess some EU civil servant snuck in her lab at night. She says she expects to publish the results at the end of this year.
       
      • Informative Informative x 3
    23. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      Which lead researcher is this? To be honest this trial finished in December last year and it’s now June.

      Does it really take that long to review their results. It’s really pathetic that the CEO has been ignoring our emails and phone calls. You think with COVID-19 they would have more time to review their results and be able to release their results faster.

      EU Horizon 2020 already hinted that Audion Therapeutics won’t go to Phase 3 due to the drug not providing enough improvements to warrant a Phase 3 clinical trial.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    24. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      I contacted Anne Schilder, Professor at UCL.

      I don’t think the EU website hints that. It says that 35% had their hearing improved and that more development is needed. We should keep in mind this is a government website, so I took “further development is needed” as: “public funding stops here, now the private sector needs to take over”.
       
    25. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      They don't actually answer to us unfortunately.
      Interesting. I haven't seen that. You got a link?
      It would be really surprising to me if those academic institutions agreed to partner with Audion on this if they weren't going to publish the results. Publishing the results of studies is what academic institutions do. I don't really expect their compound to be 'the answer' but I'm interested in what they got. Any improvement would be encouraging in the long term.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    26. xyz

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      Hopefully it does not take Frequency one year to publish the study results.
       
    27. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      That’s exactly how I think of it. Not ‘the answer’ but a step forward. Here’s the EU link:
      https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/415956-a-regenerative-therapy-for-hearing-loss
       
    28. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      They also stated 7 years indicating they want to explore other options and try out a different drug.
       
    29. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Why should 7 years mean they want to try out another drug? It takes 10 years to develop a drug. REGAIN started in 2018. 2027 would be a pretty average speediness.
       

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