Basically Cured with Psilocybin

Paul Stamets talks about micro dosing to help tinnitus on episode 1385 of the Joe Rogan Experience on podcast or YouTube.

 

If you want to get on a 6-8 hour long psychedelic roller coaster ride through the 7th circle of hell then take a bunch of mushrooms while having tinnitus.

 

Is this based on personal experiences?

 

Paul Stamets talks with Joe Rogan at around 30 minutes into this recording about micro dosing and tinnitus.

 

I have definitely felt a reduction in my symptoms after an Ayahuasca ceremony last year. It has returned since, mainly due to me not being cautious enough in my work, which is a loud working environment.

 

here to say that, as a relatively mild tinnitus sufferer, i have had wonderful experiences with psychedelics, psilocybin mushrooms and lsd namely, but only after habituating to my tinnitus. being able to still enjoy these substances after tinnitus was the greatest morale boost I have experienced since onset.

i believe, and this should be taken with a grain of salt, that if you are at a point where you can go multiple days without even thinking of your tinnitus, and more importantly can easily refocus on life when you do happen to notice it, mushrooms can be an incredible and reinvigorating experience, and if you really want to take them that at this point (and no earlier) you are probably safe to.

 

Hi @grime -- In my youth, I carefully considered whether various kinds of drug experiences would take me to a place where I wanted to go. I even experimented a bit, and could enjoy certain experiences. But when the drug wore off, I was still left with the feeling of wanting something more lasting and fulfilling.

I eventually ran across a spiritual path which clarified for me the pitfalls of relying on drug experiences to expand our awareness. A more natural and sustainable way is to find a spiritual practice that suits us (on a daily basis), which can give us more subtle and deeper experiences, eventually leading to greater love in all aspects of our lives.

I was still in my 20's when I made the discovery for myself that drugs would never take me where I wanted to go. The many and varied spiritual experiences I've had since then has never left me feeling I was missing something by foregoing drug experiences. I guess it all depends on what we're looking for.

All the Best...

 

Thank you for sharing your experience ! Drug reliance is never the answer , you need to have the tools when you're low as well. And frequent use of psychs, however safe they are compared to other drugs, is nothing to mess around with either. It can do things to you.

I do think psychs are for some people more than others, though, as everyone gets a different experience, and it looks like the one you had was only slightly analogous to what you were perusing. For me, psychadelics are the EXACT experience I'm looking for in life. Sometimes I feel like I was built for it, particularly when it's happening. While I do greatly appreciate the clarity psilocybin can provide, and have used it to learn about myself, my problems and shortcomings, and how to overcome, even after the effects wear off, it's the intrinsic experience of it I seek, not the help from it.

Relative to what other people around me experience on these substances, I believe I have been gifted to experience much more profound things in my trips than most others. Not all others, but I would say most. What I get from these things I believe is completely impossible to achieve or even come close to without them, as I believe they literally require the synthesis with fungal or chemical intelligence to experience.

The reason I advocate for this for some, and not all, is because I believe there are probably others, like myself, who are drawn by strong, indescribable interest in these things, not for some answers they seek in it, but for itself. I believe that if you are drawn in such a way, there is probably a fateful reason for this, and that they may really be fit for you in a way I see them as fit for myself, and many others. These things are more central to humanity than our culture allows us to believe, particularly because it is in the interest of our culture's upholding that these substances and their contents are buried.

 

Can I just say my first trip with tinnitus was great... my 2nd with worsened tinnitus/ear damage was a hell roller coaster...

I think I was just not prepared or in the right situation.

 

Honestly if shrooms help with tinnitus than I imagine it's a stress factor that is causing it or making it worse. I have a hard time believing that stress causes this god awful condition but I don't know much about much. I have done shrooms a good number of times and always had a good trip but I have seen people have a bad trip and it always seems to intensify everything that sucks - aka tinnitus for you. I wouldn't do it again unless you can somehow guarantee that you have a good trip and don't freak yourself out again. Also, I am a drug counselor or was before I started doing music full time and I don't recommend anyone start taking psychedelics until they have exhausted all other avenues. Especially if you have a history of drug use. Again I don't know much.

 

Out of desperation I'm looking into more and more unlikely "treatments". Psilocybin is trialled in some clinical studies for a variety of mental health conditions but not for tinnitus. Now there are a few anecdotal reports of people who dramatically improved tinnitus after a dose of shrooms (and a few who had bad experiences). Some people have been able to beat or improve anxiety/depression and addiction with a single trip. Still researching the clinical trials. I would try this but would need to travel to Amsterdam as they are not legal in many countries. However there is one thing that bothers me. Psilocybin acts on serotonin receptors and it seems that serotonin may worsen tinnitus.

How come we had this semi-miraculous cases of people having tinnitus vanish after a trip?

I read also anecdotal reports that DMT or LSD can make tinnitus worse, but shrooms do have a number of cases where they worked. Anyone has tried them recently and had good results?

What sounds attractive on paper is their ability to "reset the brain", which seems to be what we may need for tinnitus. Not sure this would be a good idea for me, though, I'm 50+ and I never took a psychedelic in my life and my tinnitus is so horrid I could make things worse. Hard to decide.

 

You may be able to achieve similar results via sustained "micro-dosing" which is a non-hallucinogenic amount. This may also let you carefully monitor progress, good or bad, to stop the process if you are not achieving positive results, as opposed to gambling on a single trip.

 

Yes microdosing would be safer and much more easy to monitor. Problem is logistics. I can't live in Amsterdam for a month and if I try to bring the product where I live I may face up to 7 years in jail due to this retrograde legislation of our nanny state. Alcohol and tobacco are ok but shrooms are forbidden, despite more and more people benefiting from microdosing in situations where even medication was not effective. Sorry for the rant. One can take a risk and order shrooms online, a lot of people seem to do that, a few packages are stopped at customs, but very few get a police visit and a caution (if without previous criminal record) that ends up ruining your criminal record. The only way to do this relatively safely is to order the spores (for some reason they are not forbidden), inoculate the correct medium and grow the mushrooms at home, short of a visit of police with a mandate one should be safe that way, but it's a lot of work.

EDIT I'm not sure that micro-dosing would bring about a reset, though. It looks more like an improvement in the serotonergic and dopaminergic pathways. A reset would require a trip I think.

 

Found this article:

Psilocybin Alters Brain Levels Of The Neurotransmitter Glutamate — And This Could Explain Why Users Experience “Ego Dissolution”

Based on brain imaging, psilocybin increases glutamate in the prefrontal cortex (bad) but lowers it in the hippocampus (good). And yet, despite the bad, psilocybin microdosing seems to improve plasticity and help neuro genesis. I'm tempted to try microdosing with careful monitoring. I need to be careful with my visual snow and I don't want to develop HPPD.

 

Hi @Chinmoku or anyone else, have you done any microdosing?

 

I have been trying to taper benzos and didn't want to play further with neurotransmitters, given that it can both improve and worsen symptoms, as it acts on serotonin. Also, it's illegal in the UK so I would have to go to Amsterdam. I would like to try though.

 

What about eating them in the field? The copper would have to be there with you to arrest you. The season is on now.

 

@Chinmoku May I ask what is the benzo dose you're trying to come down from?

I'm thinking of doing a slow taper as well after 6 years. I've been on .5 mg - .75 mg daily but I want to clean rinse and maybe start up again down the road. Benzos worked great for a long time but it's not as effective now.

 

Do you think it's too risky to try shrooms when you have visual snow syndrome? I'm asking because I have tinnitus and hyperacusis and have heard of people habituating or improving through shrooms.

 

There's always going to be a risk. Shrooms are generally thought to be safer than other psychedelics in this regard. Unfortunately, when it comes to HPPD the info we have is mostly dudes posting on Reddit and it's anecdotal reports of people trying to make sense of their situation with varying results. Much like tinnitus forums.

I have mild VSS. I might have gotten it from fungus, or it might be unrelated. I will say that dozens and dozens of magically delicious mushroom stews hasn't made my VSS permanently worse once I got it. Just like with tinnitus, how bothersome it is has a lot to do with the act of noticing these glitches in the visual system which everyone has to varying degrees.

My VSS is mild and I consider myself 95% habituated to it. If I start looking for something "wrong" with my conscious experience, sure it's quite noticeable if I start paying attention to it.

 

I could try that. I would need to take a train or bus to the countryside. I'm quite debilitated with this insane screaming so this would be quite an effort.

 

I'm on 0.375 mg Clonazepam. I was on 0.5 mg. It only worked for a couple of weeks. The tinnitus has been worsening steadily and it is insane. Problem is that trying to taper accelerates the worsening so I don't know what to do. This might have been compounded by previous use of Pregabalin.

 

There are stories in both directions. Problem with mushrooms is they are all anecdotal reports and there are no real clinical data. One psychiatrist I talked to mentioned that in the trials she heard of for depression results were quite promising but side effects were strong and that was the problem to make them into a real treatment in her opinion. Hard to know what to do really. For tinnitus and visual snow we know almost nothing. Stamets claimed it can help tinnitus and hearing loss but I think that's 100% anecdotal.

 

Shrooms helping visual snow and tinnitus is one thing, which I think is plausible. Them actually treating hearing loss, though? It sounds so far fetched, but I have faith that something like this is possible. The science is so pitiful on Psilocybin, hearing loss, and the way nerves heal in general, that I think there's practically lots of room that's left open for interpretation.

If anyone has any experience with Psilocybin treating any sort of tinnitus, visual snow, hearing loss, or any other idiopathic neurological type disorders, drop your experience here.

I think sometimes we're held back from sharing our ideas and experiences for how these disorders work and how to treat them, because we're taught that we must follow the doctrine of scientism, or else it's incorrect.

 

I told my friend psychiatrist that medications are not tested long enough in clinical trials. The thousands of cases of Pregabalin withdrawal syndrome don't exist for official medicine because they didn't observe them in trials but trials were short. Psychiatrists often disregard claims that their drugs may cause tinnitus when we all know they do for a number of people. So yes, I agree we need to be flexible here. In a world with a minimum of sense they would have trialled Psilocybin long ago for many conditions. After all it's not like psychopharmaceutical drugs are without damage or heavy side effects.

 

To be clear no one is saying shrooms can treat the hearing loss, just your brain's reaction to it.

 

I am in the process of procuring Psilocybin to microdose. Will update as per usual.

 

Me too.

 

Ok just to report the experience of a friend of mine in the Netherlands affected with quite severe tinnitus who wishes to remain incognito (she is not on the forum).

Her tinnitus is like a super-high pitched electric signal, very distressing, predominantly in the left ear. Might be related to past medication use (pregabalin). Very similar story to mine. She has been going on for two years, slightly less than me, tried a lot of things, nothing worked.

She told me she took a microdose (on the upper bound range) once, a couple weeks ago, and she experienced mild discomfort, mild nausea, slightly worsened tinnitus for about 4-6 hours, and slight tremors for about 3-4 hours. No visual symptoms or any other tripping effects.

Then she decided to try again yesterday at a larger dose to see if it was a dosing problem. She took a dose twice the upper bound of a microdose, so a very light trip.
She experienced nausea, managed not to vomit but it was hard, tremors, increased agitation, balance issues and was seeing some flashing lights in her peripheral vision. She felt the tinnitus become worse than ever after dosing, she had to mask it aggressively, take a tranquilizer and wait for the effect of the trip to run out. She also felt her mood plummet and felt desperate. This was really a pain. It took about 5 hours to feel better, then at 9-10 hours out she was back to normal, her symptoms back to the usual bad.

Her experience has been very negative. She advised me against trying this, as we are quite similar in terms of symptoms and history. I have light visual snow, she does not, so in a sense for me it's even riskier. Also, she is free of medication, I'm still trying to come off benzos.

I think one fair point to keep in mind is that Psilocybin is serotonergic, so people who react poorly to serotonin drugs may have to be careful. I react very badly to SSRI's or even 5-HTP so I would expect I might respond similarly to my friend, and on top of this having visual snow I think it's best for me to let this go.

This is not meant to discourage people who wish to try this and can do it in the right framework. I think the problem is, as I said, the lack of any statistically meaningful data on the use of Psilocybin in general and for tinnitus in particular. We only have a bunch of good and bad anecdotes. I wish we could email Stamets to ask for some more details on his claim in the Joe Rogan show but I don't even know how to contact him.

One thing that came up in several threads is that the brain reset due to shrooms might de-habituate you if you have habituated. Not a factor for me or my friend, as we never habituated, but she did mention that shrooms made her tinnitus even more noticeable, bringing it even more at the forefront of her attention and making it more piercing. This seems to go into the same direction as de-habituation.

However, there are also people who witnessed total disappearance or big improvements, so there's no telling.

Anecdotally, I would conclude:

1. If you have strong reactions to serotonergic drugs (e.g. SSRIs, or supplements like St John's Wort or 5-HTP)
OR
2. If you have visual snow and fear worsening
OR
3. If you have habituated to your tinnitus well and it does not bother you
OR
4. If you are struggling extremely hard with your tinnitus and are in a bad mood/anxiety/depression state

then it's too risky to try. If you are struggling but still have some margin to tolerate a possible worsening (most likely temporary) then you may give it a try, microdosing should do no harm, even though my friend's experience has been bad for her.

As I fall in 2 and 4 above I'm back to the drawing board, trying to survive this hell hour by hour

 

Hi, new member here. I've had tinnitus since hunting with shotguns in my youth with no ear plugs. :^) I'm in my 50s now and have pretty much learned to live with (ignore) it, but occasionally it raises its' ugly head and reminds me it's still there - a constant high pitched ringing in both ears.

Paul Stamets' "stack" includes Lion's Mane (another neurogenesis) and Niacin (w/ flush) which increases GABA absorption through the blood brain barrier. There may be some science to back up the anecdotal reports of psilocybin mushrooms improving the severity of tinnitus. See this paper on Frontostriatal Gating which mentions both GABA and serotonin involvement:

Frontostriatal Gating of Tinnitus and Chronic Pain

Note: I've been using mushrooms for a couple of years now to treat various disorders (namely OCD) and to improve my spiritual life and relationships. I've tried anywhere from 0.2g to 6.0g as well as micro-dosing for 2 months. Although I have had some crazy hearing synesthesia at high doses, I still have tinnitus. Strangely though, I have not thought to make a note of whether my tinnitus is "active" during these experiences. I'll do that next time, for sure. I have had so much success with this sacred medicine in other areas of my life. I'm sure it holds the key...

PS: I'm curious about whether the strain makes a difference. Not all mushrooms are the same and contain various amounts of other compounds (not just psilocybin) that work on the serotonergic system. I only have experience with P. Cubensis.

Cheers.