Clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril)

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by erik, May 29, 2012.

    1. Cory_
      Pensive

      Cory_ Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Geelong, VIC, AU
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ??? / Bad luck / Noise / TMJ / Alcoholism / COVID vaccine
      Jastreboff was right about benzos.
       
    2. BrysonKingMe

      BrysonKingMe Member

      For about a month it was centered in my left ear. Now it's very much in my head.

      I guarantee a lot of people who have up and down cyclical tinnitus are in benzo, and it will improve when you SLOWLY taper off.
       
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    3. Tomas80

      Tomas80 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknow. Maybe stress?
      No! It is not. I took 1 mg a day for 2 weeks. No side effects.
       
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    4. Sam Marksmen
      Confused

      Sam Marksmen Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meds
      So after reading a bunch here, I may have figured out why my tinnitus is increasing. As your body builds up a tolerance to benzos (Klonopin in my case), it needs more to satisfy the neurotransmitters in your brain. At this point you go into a cycle of withdrawal and creating more tinnitus. You can take more or gradually taper, but you can't stay on the same dose, in my case Klonopin at 1.25 mg. My fear tapering off them is permanent tinnitus. So doing a long taper seems like an option but I'm wondering what's the likelihood of ending up with worse tinnitus. I was thinking of using a jeweler's scale or water titration and following the Ashton manual.
       
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    5. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      Well, how to taper comes down to several factors:

      1) How long have you been on it?
      2) What was your starting dose?
      3) Your current dose is 1.25mg.

      Without the first 2 it's hard to advise.
       
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    6. Sam Marksmen
      Confused

      Sam Marksmen Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meds
      Ok, thanks. 1 mg for 1.5 years, then 1.25 mg started this May. So yea a long time and I'm worried.

      And there's nothing funny about my situation, I'm in a lot of pain.
       
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    7. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      Hi @Sam Marksmen.

      I have to start by saying you should speak to a doctor. That said, the taper should be between 6-12 months. This is based on the fact you have some tolerance already to deal with.

      If it's pill form, being precise requires a set of scales and something to shave off bits of the pill. If you go quicker, then often people have a holding phase following a reduction. @linearb has successfully tapered off after a much longer period on and at a higher dose.
       
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    8. Sam Marksmen
      Confused

      Sam Marksmen Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meds
      Thanks Nick. So I did talk to my doctor, psychiatrist, and he said I could go off them cold turkey. So he's just approaching it as if I'm a normal person, and he said he doesn't know anything about tinnitus.

      Since I increased only in May to 1.25 mg of Klonopin I think getting down to 1 mg would be doable and I should start soon. If I reduced at 0.125mg every month, that would be too fast?

      I'm not sure a jeweler's scale would be accurate enough. @linearb had some great info about cranial nerve and first vertebrae but I couldn't find anything about tapering. BenzoBuddies has an Excel spread sheet on titration. I would just have to get a pipette. It's so true what others said; doctors should never have prescribed these or at least should have told people about the dangers. It's weird because Klonopin is one of the most widely studied drugs. I just hope my window is short enough to get off that 0.25mg.
       
    9. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @Sam Marksmen, I'm horrified at the response of your psychiatrist. Horrified! Going down to 1 mg and holding for a month seems about right. Then go with your own plan.
       
    10. blamingeverything

      blamingeverything Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      high frequency hearing loss
      Please keep us posted and I wish you well!
       
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    11. Sam Marksmen
      Confused

      Sam Marksmen Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meds
      I'm planning on cutting down to 1 mg but taking at least 2 months to do it.

      I'm terrified now and panicking because my doctor can choose their own taper, or just cut me off whenever they like as they have no experience with people with tinnitus.

      I'm just worried they won't see 6-12 months as a reasonable time frame for withdrawal. I signed a deal with a devil in a white coat.

      When people say being on Klonopin will make tinnitus worse, is it because it makes it worse from withdrawal or from just being on it on a consistent dose?

      If I didn't read this stuff here, I would have gone off cold turkey like my doctor said.

      My other fear is there's no documentation other than anecdotal evidence, so I can't show him a peer review that says I need to taper 6-12 months. Even doing a long taper like that, it seems some have had worsening tinnitus.
       
    12. Nick47

      Nick47 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viral/noise
      @Sam Marksmen, tinnitus gets worse sometimes as you will be lower on GABA production and higher on Glutamate, which causes the excitement. It will take a while to reach homeostasis. Also as you found out, Clonazepam initially suppressed your tinnitus.
       
    13. blamingeverything

      blamingeverything Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      high frequency hearing loss
      You may find that you can taper faster (or slower) than some people, don't borrow trouble. It's individual. If I were you, I wouldn't tell your doctor that you're tapering until you're finished. They clearly don't have a problem prescribing it, so don't rock that boat until you're done to maintain supply.
       
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    14. Sam Marksmen
      Confused

      Sam Marksmen Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Meds
      Would you guys say holding at my dosage of 1.25 mg of Klonopin is eventually or currently responsible for increasing my tinnitus?
       
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    15. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      Switched Clonezapam (1 mg) to Diazepam (20 mg, and down to 15 mg now).

      Going to detox and withdraw as an inpatient.

      Has anyone had a relatively mild withdrawal or am I in for an increased tinnitus hell?

      I feel the Diazepam is causing depression. I was put on Benzos for MEM spasms.
      Hey Bryson. Are you saying that those that have volatile tinnitus will see a reduction in volatility as you taper off benzos?
       
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    16. BrysonKingMe

      BrysonKingMe Member

      Hard to say, each person is different. Before I couldn't get more than 1 good day in a row, now I've gotten up to 6. I went too fast though and had to updose unfortunately, which set me back quite a bit. I'm hoping that once I'm at a lower dose/off completely I will go back to my blissful mild tinnitus.

      I would not suggest going to a detox clinic though... they have a tendency to rip you off in 2 weeks. My taper from 0.55 mg will take 6 months to a year.
       
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    17. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      Thanks for the reply. I’m actually going for a lengthy inpatient stay for depression and I’m not going to allow them to cut me off too quickly.

      Good to hear it might decrease over a slow taper.

      Best of luck with your taper. I’m full of admiration for you for being a Korean Guinea Pig. Very brave.
       
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    18. BrysonKingMe

      BrysonKingMe Member

      If any doctor had mentioned it was the Clonazepam, I would have been well out of this hellhole by now!

      But thanks!

      How long have you been on the Clonazepam for? This stuff makes you depressed as hell.
       
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    19. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      I was on Clonezapam for only 4 months. I have switched to Diazepam and am currently on 15 mg. My story is complicated and involves a breakdown, both physical and mental, after my 17 week premature twins were born. After 8 months of hospital and working full time, the chronic lack of sleep was compounded by reflux/thrush for 3 months at home. I developed insomnia and eventually sleep-induced psychosis. Met the wrong psychiatrist who medicated heavily and those meds caused my tinnitus and MEM.

      Feeling a bit hopeless and suicidal lately so I will do 100 days in private care. I hope to make progress. Getting off the Diazepam is a priority but in all reality I am going to have to take some antidepressant, despite knowing the link with tinnitus. Really have no choice I feel, but will see.

      Really scared and not afraid to admit it. The last four years have been a shit show.

      However, my twin boys are flying it and truly medical miracles.

      Every night by the incubator, I asked the universe to take me in order to save their lives.

      Just wish it wasn’t dragging it out with this suffering!

      Wish me well, as I do you.
       
      • Hug Hug x 10
    20. BrysonKingMe

      BrysonKingMe Member

      Being off the Clonazepam will reduce your dark thoughts.

      In 2018-2019, my life was pretty much fine and I was having intrusive thoughts daily. Depressed for no reason.

      Turns out it was the Clonazepam, because once I was off of them, the intrusive thoughts disappeared within a month.

      But again, do not do what I did, which was cold turkeying. I was fine, but reinstating has turned out to be the worst decision I have ever made. I was the one who asked for them, however my psych should have denied me if he knew anything about long term benzo use -- once you are off, you never, ever go back on. All sorts of paradoxical reactions can occur.
       
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    21. danielthor

      danielthor Member

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      When you become tolerant to 2 mg of Clonazepam, does that mean your GABA receptors are now permanently desensitized and that benzos don’t work on you in general no matter how large the dosage?

      Somebody told me this, and I hope it’s not true. I can’t risk becoming totally tolerant to benzos as I need them in emergency situations, but I also need to take them every day because I can’t handle my life otherwise.
       
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    22. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Well as of tonight, I've given up on my Clonazepam experiment.

      I did 1 mg 2 or 3 times over 1 week, took about 10 days off, then tried 0.5 mg nightly for a week, and then tapered down to 0.25 mg for 3 days and finally 0.125 mg for 3 days just to be safe.

      I would happily become dependent on the drug if it helped, but aside from sleeping, it didn't do me more than the slightest of goods.

      So down goes another thing I've tried to make this condition bearable. Sadly there really is nothing else for me to try. It appears there really is nothing that helps me abate my suffering at all. Cruel condition.
       
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    23. lcj

      lcj Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
      Have you considered trying Carbamazepine (indicated for typewriter tinnitus but anecdotally has worked on other types of tinnitus as well), or Sumatriptan? Both have been discussed on this forum with mostly either reports of good result or no result and the side effects seem minimal. If you aren’t worried about tinnitus worsening, I see no reason not to give it a try.
       
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    24. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Thanks for the tip. I’ll check it out.
       
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    25. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Started with a cold, possibly worsened by medication/noise
      User @birdy didn't have that experience, she raised the dosage a few times, for example once she went and stabilized on 4 mg, and she was fine every time after the increase, for a long time, so I don't think it's always true. However, everyone is different. For example, I became tolerant to 1 mg and increasing to 2 mg does almost nothing, except slightly better sleep, that however is not worth it. I understand depending on benzos to survive. If only they worked for me.
       
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    26. Ben Winders
      Pensive

      Ben Winders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic
      Don't mind me barging in here, but since the connection between benzo withdrawal and tinnitus seems like a big deal to me, has there ever been any conclusive research done to prove causality?

      I could really only find this paper but it only lists a few case reports.

      I would really like to read up on the research to be able to explain with scientifically backed research to my dad who just started taking Xanax (for his tinnitus and hyperfocus) what benzos do to his brain that could potentially exacerbate his pre-existing tinnitus (when he will taper off soon).
       
    27. blamingeverything

      blamingeverything Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      high frequency hearing loss
      My layman guess would be that this could be caused by the rebound effect of cessation, or hyper-excitation of the relevant brain network involved with producing tinnitus. It's anyone's guess who will be affected though.

      People quitting marijuana also frequently report tinnitus.
       
    28. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown/Stress
      Hi Ben,

      It’s pretty basic.

      Benzos increase GABA which decreases neuroexcitability. The ‘opposite’ of GABA is Glutamate.

      When you take Benzos, your brain stops producing as much GABA as you are getting it through medication.

      During Benzo withdrawal it takes a while for the brain to start producing GABA again, so Glutamate is winning and the end result is more neuroexcitability.

      Neuroexcitability is thought to produce ‘tinnitus.’

      Hope that helps. There are many far more knowledgeable than me on this here so they can give more detail.
       
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    29. Ben Winders
      Pensive

      Ben Winders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic
      Eek. I just started taking a GABA supplement (GABA Calm). Will this cause the same reaction in the brain (even though most people say the supplement doesn't even cross the blood brain barrier)?
       
    30. grate_biff
      In pain

      grate_biff Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Moss, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma using headphones
      It comes down to calming down the neurons in the DCN, called fusiform cells.

      Benzos do a good job at this by opening the GABA-A receptors for influx of chloride ions in presense of GABA.

      This is what inhibits or calms the cells down. The problem is, over time, continuing benzos, the receptors becomes un-coupled or down-regulated, thus one becomes tolerant to the drug.

      Glutamate is also produced in excess to counteract the effect of benzos in an effort to seek balance. Glutamate affects the AMPA- and NMDA- receptors with lots of neuro-excitability effects. NMDA receptors are known to thrive where there is nerve damage. So there is that on top then.

      The GABAergic and the Glutamatergic system out of balance is bad news for your CNS, your DCN and tinnitus.

      I don't think there is any shortage of GABA in withdrawal. The body just can't make use of it.

      It's very complicated and delicate systems.

      To make things even more puzzling, GABA is synthesized from Glutamate :confused:
      That's where I understand I don't understand :dohanimation:

      In short, benzos are NOT a sustainable treatment for tinnitus imo.
       
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