Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Sven, Jun 17, 2013.

    1. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      The basis of CBT is acceptance. Sure, let's just accept not being able to concentrate, not being able to sleep.

      They are setting a paradigm that being bothered by tinnitus is our fault for not accepting it. Like it is a form of maladjustment.

      Martin Luther King Jr. had something to say about the psychological concept of maladjustment.
      Martin Luther King (1963) - Proud to be...


      Look, as long as I am on this forum, I am going to wreck any and all assholes that come here peddling this nonsense. We cannot have a bunch of quack psychologists running around claiming that the distress that tinnitus causes is somehow overcomable by accepting it. The logical outcome is that it is our fault if it bothers us. That's not just wrong, but it is evil.

      This quackery is pushed by the BTA:
      https://www.tinnitus.org.uk/tinnitus-and-cognitive-behavioural-therapy-cbt


      Thank you @David for helping promote the idea that tinnitus distress is our fault.

      God help us.
       
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    2. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Is the basis of CBT acceptance, or is it providing coping strategies for people who have no other relief, or want to supplement other strategies they are pursuing? There certainly is decades of evidence for a psychological basis for relief. It doesn’t necessarily follow the problem exists only in the patient’s head, nor does it imply the problem is the patient’s fault. I do see the point about how a narrow focus on CBT could detract from progress towards real solutions. But let’s be honest: to date there is no cure for T that is broadly and consistently successful (or if there is, please point me to that thread). In the meantime can’t we be adults and be open to T management on multiple fronts?
       
    3. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Logic is as follows:
      CBT is effective.
      If you're stressed from tinnitus, and you haven't done CBT, then you are ignoring an effective treatment, which means it is your fault that you haven't sought treatment.
       
    4. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Okay JohnAdams, I appreciate your viewpoint but I respectfully disagree, and I'm going to bow out of the CBT sparring match.

      You obviously have a vendetta against CBT. Kudos for getting your message out there and sticking to your guns.

      As for me, I'm going to be open-minded about any treatment that offers relief from distress, especially when backed by evidence-based science. I'm still interested in addressing the root cause, looking for a cure. It doesn't seem like we need additional research on CBT because it's already been vetted in peer-reviewed studies. Patients can pursue the CBT if they choose, and according to the statistics many will get relief. Peace.
       
    5. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Seriously.

      I agree with everything you said and this is coming from someone who earnestly tried 5 or 6 months of CBT, mediation and "reframing" exercises.

      I honestly think the "radical acceptance" idea is promoted way more by non-sufferers (or mild sufferers) than sufferers.

      My ex husband even used this idea to justify leaving me after my hearing damage because clearly it was my fault that I didn't "want to get better" and "focus on the positive" and just wanted to "wallow in self pity." The internet is apparently full of people who just CBT'd their way out of all kinds of suffering and he would point to that and say that I must just be mentally ill and even narcissistic to be thinking of my own suffering so much. He would have handled it "so much better" apparently.

      In actuality, he left because emotional support requires sobriety (which is a whole other issue) but the fact that a few of our mutual friends saw this as a completely valid excuse for leaving your distressed wife completely alone shows you how far "toxic positivity" has come. It feels like victim blaming. We don't need a "new normal." We need to be able to hear quiet, speech and music normally again. We need a cure.

      I am all for trying to make the best of things but it seems like no matter what affliction you have, people are now blamed for not using psychology or positivity the right way or for just "rising above it" like the person they saw on Ellen did or whatever. All without acknowledging that some people really do have it much worse.

      God help us indeed.
       
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    6. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      I mean, it's painfully obvious.
       
    7. Harley

      Harley Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      They want us to accept the unacceptable, so they can wash their hands of spending money on a real treatment.

      Personally, I find the whole notion behind CBT insulting to my intelligence.
      My tinnitus volume is not going to lower, just because some person sitting across the table feeds me some feel good, scripted BS, while charging me couple hundred dollars per session.
      I know what I have and I'm never accepting this (or submitting to it, or calling it my friend... etc)
      That is just insulting.
      Period.

      But as long as we have people from our own ranks preaching about the virtues of these quack solutions, our plight for a real treatment will not be taken seriously.
      We need to think outside the box and we need to think about what kind of messages we are sending to the outside world.

      It does seem, that the tinnitus community is very slowly starting to wake up and the tone is starting to change towards demanding real treatment options, but this awakening should have happened some 30 ****** years ago!!

      If that were the case, I'm 100% convinced, that we would have the cure by now.
      Sadly quacks like Jastreboff and the gang managed to convince lot of people, that all they really need is a bit of an attitude adjustment.

      We are not lesser people or second class citizens.
      Most of us have been paying into the health care system for bigger part of our lives without a complaint.
      But we now need that the system gives us something in return.

      And finally a message to those of you who are preaching that everyone can habituate to their tinnitus:
      Look... Your intentions might be good, but do us a big favour.

      Would you kindly just shut your mouths already and stop throwing the rest of us real sufferers under the bus with your lies and misinformation?
      Thank you so much.
       
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    8. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      upload_2019-10-30_16-51-24.png
      but muh science
       
    9. Jcb
      No Mood

      Jcb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      December 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      possible TMJ, came on after severe cold and chest infection,
      No need to be a dick John, he’s being more than civil with you. We get it you don’t like CBT, it’s holding back a cure Blah Blah Blah, funny enough I agree with that but as a so called Christian maybe he a little more compassion towards people that are suffering and wanting to find something that may help them.

      Fact is there is NO known cure as of yet!! FACT!! Maybe there is one out there but until then, if it helps a person deal with this hell then use a bit of your Christian spirit and don’t be absolute cockwobble to people who being more than civil with you.
       
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    10. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      I agree. I can't believe for one second @JohnAdams is a Christian, he's so rude and heartless. Indecent really.

      If someone wants to try CBT and thinks it helps, let them, and don't be a butthole...
       
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    11. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Yeah, civilly promoting bullshit that makes our situation even worse because it makes our suffering seem like it is our fault for not accepting it. That is pure evil. Go tell a quadriplegic that their depression is their fault for not accepting it.
      Elijah mocked Baal priests, Jesus whipped the money changers, and called the Pharisees children of their father the Devil. Your standard of what a Christian should be means absolutely nothing to me. Part of being a Christian is standing up against evil, which this is. I said I was going to wreck people pushing this evil crap and I'm keeping my word.
       
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    12. Jcb
      No Mood

      Jcb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      December 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      possible TMJ, came on after severe cold and chest infection,
      That I agree 100 if it helps then that’s great. I do think too many funds are wasted on CBT/mindfulness and do hold back advancement for a cure, I don’t think we can learn that much more about CBT etc. The thing I don’t get is when somebody asks for some help about CBT or whatever the mob mentality comes out in force and rains down on them.

      Yeah I question that as well, he comes across as big troll most of the time. I don’t think he’s heartless though, that I disagree with but he certainly doesn’t come across as a Christian at all, likes to quite a lot of verses but doesn’t follow them especially the be kind to others. Go figure eh :rolleyes:
       
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    13. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
    14. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Lol, I have 2 engineering degrees, and I have a job writing software for a multinational building materials manufacturer with over 50 factories around the world. I know what real science is and I also know how easily scientific data can be massaged and manipulated to make it seem like there is a positive correlation between variables. This is more than likely the case with CBT. People like you truly are muh science and you don't even have a clue.

      Did you not read the above testimony from our worthy fellow sufferer that stated she went through multiple CBT sessions which did nothing and her husband used that as a justification for destroying their marriage? You have problems.
       
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    15. Jcb
      No Mood

      Jcb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      December 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      possible TMJ, came on after severe cold and chest infection,
      Where does CBT teach you that if you can’t move forward then it’s your fault? I’m not sure you are getting what CBT is? I know it’s not for everybody and at the end of the day if it helps somebody suffering until we see a cure I disagree.

      Yeah CBT is pure evil, how dare somebody trying to help somebody overcome a difficult time be compared to the devil.

      Who are you wrecking BTW? How about use some of your “wrecking” abilities and make a change outside of this forum, the amount of time you spend on here you could be making some little waves you know on the outside where it might actually help. I appreciate your experiments you do to try and get rid of tinnitus but seriously you ain’t Moses mate haha.
       
    16. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Lol, yerself, Mr. Science. I have two grad degrees: a M.S. with a minor in biostatistics, and a PhD in Biology. I generate, analyze, interpret, and communicate scientific data on a daily basis. I was happy to deliberate and discuss this with you until it got ugly. I chimed in on this forum with an honest question about the efficacy of CBT (not a rant or a preconceived notion), and you have "elevated" it to a mudfight. You truly are a spiteful troll.
       
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    17. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Whatever man, you can say what you want about me at least you cant claim I'm pro CBT. You can go around and blame all of us for our own suffering all you want but that doesnt make you right.
       
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    18. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      But they cannot help. Hypnotizing someone into accepting their suffering is not helping. Its called being a parasite. It is the ultimate form of snake oil. You are arguing that these shrinks know something special about the human mind that the sufferer does not. Its total insanity.
       
    19. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      No it's not. If CBT helps someone lead a productive and happy life despite hearing a noise that doesn't exist, then good for them.

      CBT demonstrably helps a lot of people, you are nobody to say otherwise. Just like you hope nobody would diminish your or anyone else's suffering, nobody should diminish anyone else feeling better because of CBT.
       
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    20. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I think CBT should be classified on the same level as other things people might want to try that may be of a little benefit, like acupuncture but the problem is that it is elevated to be the answer and if you don't get relief, it's your fault. Most therapies don't have that kind of sentiment behind them from my experience. I could see this helping a 3/10 tinnitus but what about the "jet engine" loud?

      I can't speak for John, but my personal problem with CBT is that it is presented as universally effective if you are determined enough and mentally healthy enough and i don't think that's true at all.

      What I'm rallying against is the use of it to dismiss the suffering as "not wanting to get better". That certainly isn't the "point" of CBT but it is a consequence of the way it's often promoted.

      Re: John. I see his passion as evidence he cares. He's already reported personal improvements yet he's just as active here trying to make sure more of us don't kill ourselves before an actual viable treatment is here.

      Does he sometimes come off as salty? Sure. But whether or not someone is "Christian" (or any other religion) shouldn't be dependent on how well they stick to social norms.
       
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    21. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Why does CBT need to be with a therapist? Why cant it be written down in a book? You CBT goons are pushing the notion that some shrink knows more about what is going on in your head than you do. If there are in fact mental strategies to help you cope with tinnitus, it should be free knowledge, not something that you need to pay for. At the end of the day CBT is this:
      Does your tinnitus bother you?
      Then just don't.
      Here's the bill.

      Seriously, you CBT squads are the enemy of mankind. I hope you're proud of yourselves. You are the epitome of brainwashed robots. You're promoting the idea that we can pay people to talk to us to help our tinnitus because we are too stupid to explore and manage our own thoughts. You are worms. Actually I take that back because it is an insult to actual worms.

      I'm so "anti-science" that I'm a huge proponent of mammalian hair cell regeneration technology, which is actually on the forefront of technology and a major leap in human knowledge about how the human body can be hacked to treat diseases. You guys are truly insane. Go take your CBT propaganada and do "something" with it.

      Also, what else do I promote? Curcumin and turmeric. Something that several users in this forum have found that actually decreases tinnitus intensity. So go ahead, keep promoting nonsense that has absolutely no effect on actually tinnitus. You're just hypnotism shills.
       
    22. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Never blamed you or anyone else for their own suffering, never have. Not even trying to be "right." I was literally just asking--as a newcomer to this forum and to forms of tinnitus management in general--about the efficacy of CBT. You've thoroughly driven home your points against CBT. Thanks for the info.
       
    23. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Here is what the problem is:
      Universities are an industrial complex and they are graduating more psychologists and psychiatrists than there is a market for so they have to make up areas for them to have jobs in and one of those markets is that of the tinnitus sufferers. They want to sell you words, because that is the only thing they can produce.
       
    24. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Are there any resources/info on the forms & dosages for these that don't involve reading 1,000 threads on the forum?
       
    25. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Not really. It's a safe compound you can really just get some, and research the brand to see if it is reputable and take a bunch. I took 12 grams a day for about 5 or so weeks and it didnt hurt me at all. It just stained all my socks yellow. You probably dont need 12 grams per day and you can experiment day to day and see what works for you. I am down to 2-3 grams as my nominal dose. If you do try it, try it always with food. Also, try it at different times of day. I have found for myself that it works best with dinner, and recently, a further improvement when taking it with breakfast.It also has anti cancer, anti alzheimers, anti oxidative stress properties, as well as otoprotective properties. Try it. If it works for you, which so far it seems to only help a minority subgroup, then help me in spreading the news. Figuring out what subgroup(s) that this works on and thus why it works, could help further research into to how this dumbass disease even works.
       
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    26. Seth4kHz

      Seth4kHz Member

      Location:
      Portland, OR
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Which minority subgroup?
       
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    27. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      I'm not exactly sure. I have followed the responses of several people that have tried it and it only seems to affect certain people, and it is less than half of the people that try it. I cannot speak for them, but my tinnitus type is from aspirin mixed with noise and I have a "normal" audiogram. Mine is somatic and fluctuates.
       
    28. ThomasC

      ThomasC Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss

      does curcumin permanently help tinnitus ?
       
    29. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Don't think so, not for me. It seems like it only really works while it is in your system.
       
    30. Luman
      Spaced

      Luman Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brooklyn
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Intermittent Tinnitus probably noise induced
      Good luck waiting for your science cure. Calling people who support behavioral therapy to learn how to cope with tinnitus distress, through psychology, "goons", "brainwashed robots", "worms", "hypnotism shills", etc., smacks of frustration, resentment, insecurity and meanness.

      It takes courage to face extremely challenging disorders such as tinnitus distress. CBT is a boot camp of training for that quality, and works for many other problems as well, for a lot of people. Go ahead and take your spices as a remedy, if that works for you. Those of us who have found strength and coping skills through the sciences of the mind don't have to prove anything to you, or anybody else.
       
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