Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

Discussion in 'Research News' started by RB2014, Dec 8, 2016.

    1. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Perhaps, but if they can’t get frequencies below that to regenerate they might as well just call themselves a ultra high frequency tinnitus niche company instead of a company that wants to treat hearing loss.
       
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    2. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Same delivery method, different mechanism (transdifferentation versus mitosis). I can imagine a combination therapy in the future where you use FX-322 first and then use the Regain drug to transdifferentiate those brand new supporting cells you got from FX-322.

      What’s the source of the trial participant testimony?
       
    3. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      That's not totally true. FX-322 first multiplies the supporting cells and then transdifferentiates them into hair cells. Audion's drug does the transdifferentiation without multiplying the supporting cell first.

      They both cause the supporting cell to transform into a hair cell. FX-322 just does it with depleting the supporting cells. The main mechanism is the restoration of the hair cells.
       
    4. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      FX-322 does not transdifferentiate new supporting cells into hair cells. It causes supporting cells to divide. Some of the new cells are hair cells, some of them are supporting cells. You’re suggesting the new hair cells were supporting cells before they became hair cells. That’s not the case.

      Source:
      http://www.cochlea.eu/en/research-lines/regeneration
       
    5. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      So where do you think these new hair cells are coming from?
       
    6. Auron
      Dead

      Auron Member

      Location:
      Planet Earth
      Tinnitus Since:
      Spring
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Shock
      Has Audion confirmed that this is a one time treatment only.If you get a second acoustic trauma then your screwed?If so,I'd rather wait out for FX-322 or another similar treatment.Of course,as times goes on,and if Audion turns out to be a success,desperation may make me want to jump on ship.Time will tell I guess.
       
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    7. John Queen

      John Queen Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Yes, that's the downside of using only gamma secretase inhibitors: the number of supporting cells decreases, since those cells turn into hair cells. There was a study in mice (from 2013, I think) where they showed this reduction. The good thing was that the treatment indeed improved ABR scores at low frequencies for the treated mice, somehow proportionally to the number of hair cells regenerated -- at least that was my impression when I looked at the charts, I haven't read the whole study carefully. That's why I think Frequency is a few steps ahead of the others: in theory, if it works, you could use it multiple times; just in case you screw up your ears again after a treatment, you know...

      PS: doesn't mean that it is a one-time treatment only, but certainly the number of supporting cells decreases with each injection.
       
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    8. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      The cochlea doesn’t regenerate supporting cells as far as I know. So if you have hearing loss at let’s say 4000-8000 Hz and the supporting cells at those frequencies become hair cells thus depleting the supporting cells located at those frequencies, I don’t think you can repeat the treatment or at least it won’t be as effective. We also don’t know the exact function of supporting cells so depleting them might have effects we are not aware of yet.

      On the other hand, should you get hearing loss at different frequencies than 4000-8000 Hz, I can imagine you could get the treatment again.

      That’s why I think FX-322 and Regain could work together nicely.
       
    9. Pero1234

      Pero1234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      home theatre system + high pressure washer
      No shame in that!
       
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    10. just1morething
      Benevolent

      just1morething Member Benefactor

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      barotrauma, noise exposure, TMJ, neck?
      Sometimes hearing aids help my tinnitus and sometimes they don’t. The noise could be coming from my upper neck, hard to tell. I went to a chiro on Friday and seem worse today.
       
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    11. Allan Mcmillan

      Allan Mcmillan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 30 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic shock from playing guitar with headphones
      That article seems to state that the brain doesn't automatically calibrate the new hair cells by itself. However, I remember reading somewhere that the auditory nerve can detect when new hair cells grow. Can anyone clarify this?
       
    12. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Robert Jackler at Stanford University stated that when the hair cell regenerates that the nerve regrows and reconnects and called it a "miracle".
       
    13. Allan Mcmillan

      Allan Mcmillan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 30 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic shock from playing guitar with headphones
      Miracle implying doesn't usually happen or happens?
       
    14. Pero1234

      Pero1234 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      home theatre system + high pressure washer
      That phrase stuck with me too.

      Still I do wonder how they could have observed this? In vivo? In vitro? What experiments were they doing? The video was from back in 2012 if I’m not mistaken.

      I do hope he’s right!
       
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    15. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      That is habbening.
       
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    16. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Yeah, I don’t think you should read that as “after the new hair cells are there, we need another treatment that grows the nerve endings”. I think it reads as “new hair cells aren’t enough, they need to be able to transmit a signal to the brain”. That’s exactly why Otonomy and Rinri Therapeutics are focused on regenerating the nerves (I think they focus on different missing nerves). We know there are people that have their hair cells, but are missing the nerve endings.

      This is also why I don’t think at all 2020 will be a fruitless year until Frequency publishes Phase 2a results. I think we’ll get plenty of studies of other drugs that can answer these types of questions, even though they use different methods of regenerating hair cells. It’s very easy: if Novartis announces, for example, a 10 dB gain in some patients that were treated with CGF-166, we’ll know for pretty damn sure regrown hair cells are fully functioning.
       
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    17. John Mahan

      John Mahan Member

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Miracle implying that it is a miracle of nature so positive that without it, this entire exercise wouldn't work. That kind of miracle. Thank goodness if introducing more hair cells that they reconnect to the brain.

      The opposite of a miracle? That evolution has provided humans without the facility to regrow cochlear hair cells and hence only recourse is to make this happen biologically by chemical injection. Evolution has granted other animals this facility but not humans. Good news is humans are becoming smart enough to make this happen by studying animals that do it biologically.

      Another example of a miracle? That peripheral nerves on humans grow back when injured... on some level. When a person suffers a bad concussion the nerves within the brain can regenerate on some level... or other nerves can 'stand in' to do the work.

      The opposite of a miracle? The central nervous system does not regenerate. If a person gets their spinal cord severed, it doesn't grow back. Humans will figure out how to solve this as well.
       
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    18. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      RB2014
      Confused

      RB2014 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2014 became noticable
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loss of hearing and then stress and anxiety
      Stock is back up to $14 per share right now. I wonder if it starts to take off as more people become aware of what they are doing.
       
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    19. jeff W

      jeff W Member

      Location:
      nakatomi plaza
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2012
      Saager & others (2017)
       

      Attached Files:

    20. Flamingo1

      Flamingo1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Orlando, FL
      Tinnitus Since:
      4-15-2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Could be. I've been waiting for it to go back under 13 to buy more.
       
    21. JohnAdams
      In love

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Nasty Swamp
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      Right, how do you guys think I have improved as well as I have claimed.

      blues-clue-1-hr-750x500.jpg
       
    22. Daniel Lion
      Ape-like

      Daniel Lion Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      SE Asia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma, hearing loss
      Flamingo1 Buffet, aka Flamingo1. Hope you strike gold my friend.
       
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    23. Rubenslash

      Rubenslash Member

      Location:
      Brussels
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several
      It's smarter to short FREQ, then you win in both scenarios. If the therapy works, you will get hearing improvement/lower tinnitus and if it doesn't work, at least you made some money.
       
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    24. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
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      Timing the market on margin effectively would require you to know when they are reporting in H2 of next year. Until results are posted, the fluctuations are just speculative.

      You could always buy long term puts (or calls) but those are expensive and if the timing of reporting changed for any reason, they could expire worthless either way.

      Buying puts (or calls) based on if the therapy works is really far out/expensive at this point and involve additional risks that have nothing to do with the effectiveness of the drug at this point.
       
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    25. Street Novelist
      Depressed

      Street Novelist Member

      Location:
      Bay Area
      Tinnitus Since:
      February 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Listening to loud music through headphones
      Does anybody know what was said today?
       
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    26. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      No, but the lack of access to these kinds of events is bothering the hell out of me. They don’t seem to be sharing information with non-participants whatsoever. Aren’t they trying to treat us?
       
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    27. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      FX-322 in Adults With Stable Sensorineural Hearing Loss
      This is a phase 2a single and repeat dose exploratory efficacy study of intratympanic FX-322 compared to placebo in healthy male and female adults with stable sensorineural hearing loss.

      Recruitment Status: Recruiting
      First Posted: October 9, 2019
      Last Update Posted: October 9, 2019

      Contacts
      Contact: Clinical Trials Information Desk 800-839-9241 ClinicalTrialsInformation@FrequencyTx.com

      Locations
      United States, North Carolina

      https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04120116
       
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    28. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      This is in my state! I hope I am eligible since my up to 8000 Hz audiogram is normal.
       
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    29. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      Are you? High frequency audiometry is one of the tests they will use, but high frequency hearing loss doesn’t seem to fall in the inclusion criteria. Your PTA is probably not within 26-70 dB.
       
    30. Enclave

      Enclave Member

      Location:
      Meh
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      Meh
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      Meh
      It infuriates me that there’s no information with regards to the volume or concentration of FX-322 being injected in the 4 investigational groups.
       
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