Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

Discussion in 'Research News' started by RB2014, Dec 8, 2016.

    1. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      Thanks for this. I thought I had to dig this info out for @ThomasRobert.

      If 4/15 patients showed improvements at the highest frequency that was tested at 8 kHz, then imagine all of the patients having improvements between 8 kHz - 20 kHz. Makes me pissed that they didn’t do an extended audiogram.
       
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    2. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      10 dB might not be much but that could be the difference at reducing tinnitus volume. Also have to remember that the highest frequency that was tested was 8 kHz and only 4/15 showed improvements at that frequency in Phase 1.

      If they had tested between 8-20 kHz I can imagine that the other 11 patients would have shown audiogram improvements as well.
       
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    3. PortugalTheMan
      Surfing

      PortugalTheMan Member

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      @Lucifer, I think that if FX-322 was able to regenerate hearing above 8 kHz, it'd already be a miracle to happen. And a lot of people could have that range of hearing recovered at least.
       
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    4. Tanni
      Provocative

      Tanni Member Benefactor

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      You mean by increasing the WR score? No, obviously you can't fake that.

      But you can definitely decrease it. It's a subjective test.

      IF there were people who faked their WR scores - and I'm not convinced that there were - they wouldn't have been criminal masterminds. Just desperate people who made their score slightly worse to increase (not guarantee!) their chances of getting in.

      It would have been no more sinister or clever than that.
       
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    5. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

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      Great, so my takeaway from this thread based on what's been said is that both audiograms AND WR scores are meaningless. So we can just decide whether FX-322 works based on our on own internal biases! Yay!
       
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    6. Piney

      Piney Member

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      OK. I was in their trial booth at two different locations for two different trials. The fewer words you said, the less your chance of getting in was. It’s official, nobody knows what’s going on unless they took the drug, and since there’s no reports it improves tinnitu,s it’s a complete waste to people who have that problem as their main goal. I’ll check back in when there are reports of tinnitus improving.
       
    7. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

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      Dude, are you trolling? I'll write pretty nuanced takes on all of this stuff and you'll quote like 5 words and completely misrepresent the spirit of what I said...
       
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    8. Tanni
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      Tanni Member Benefactor

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      I'm sorry, I don't get it. It's probably me.

      You must have been expected at some point to get some words wrong. If you're describing a "sweet spot" where you have to get enough right to show you have good enough hearing to participate, then everyone already knows that.

      I don't know how a comment like "WR tests can be faked because they're subjective" is so complicated and controversial. I don't even think people actually did it. But saying they couldn't have is pointless, because clearly they could.

      Anyway, I'll tap out.
       
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    9. Tanni
      Provocative

      Tanni Member Benefactor

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      This was actually the point I was making earlier - if we don't accept audiogram results and we accept the company hint that WR scores were faked, how do we test if it works or not.

      @Zugzug provided a couple of different ways they were going to test it for the next trial, which makes sense.

      So conclusion for me: Either write it off now, because no improvements were found, or believe trial was flawed and wait on the next trial where they are using different measurements.

      Probably no point in thinking about it any more than that.
       
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    10. aorelia

      aorelia Member

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      Is the idea here that if it improves hearing around 8 kHz, then there is a possibility it decreases tinnitus around that same frequency?
       
    11. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      RB2014
      Confused

      RB2014 Member Benefactor

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      Yes... The theory is if the hearing increased 10 dB at 8 kHz, maybe it did more at the higher frequencies since they are easier to access. Unfortunately in that study they did not test above 8 kHz. Most people lose these high frequencies first, 8 kHz and above, and that is usually where most people's tinnitus resides. So if we can get back those lost frequencies, it could help the many people with the higher pitched tinnitus.
       
    12. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      RB2014
      Confused

      RB2014 Member Benefactor

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      After looking up Frequency Therapeutics' stock symbol FREQ, the only thing I see are class action lawsuits. Even if they have something that might work for some people, they could spend years and lots and lots of money defending themselves in court. It just isn't looking good for them, no matter how you slice it.
       
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    13. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

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      It’s too early to say but some anecdotes in the trial stated their tinnitus reduced in volume. I expect most of us to have tinnitus caused by high frequency hearing loss.
       
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    14. Nobody19

      Nobody19 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

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      Honestly, that could just be a subjective improvement because their improved hearing masks their tinnitus. I hope I'm wrong obviously.
       
    15. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

      Tezcatlipoca Member

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      Please, we already went through this months ago. Those are not lawsuits. Ambulance chaser law firms put ads seeking people in the trials, no one is suing FREQ.
       
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    16. AUTHOR
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      RB2014
      Confused

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      There are going to be huge losses from investors due to the run up and then the subsequent drop. Most of those law firms will work for free in hopes of a big payday.

      Investors will call them because it costs them nothing and they lost lots. Frequency Therapeutics will have to defend themselves and hire lawyers. That will cost money. They aren't there yet... but it is going to be expensive once these start to go to court.

      This is totally going to cut into the money the company has remaining to continue the trials and pay their employees.
       
    17. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

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      Yeah, those are all fishing expeditions/ambulance chasers. Not one of those firms has filed an actual suit, they’re “investigating” by trying to draw in heavy individual investors that are now holding the bag after the stock ranked. Rarely anything comes of these firms.
       
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    18. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

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      Isn’t that still an improvement method for tinnitus that doesn’t exist today?
       
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    19. kiki

      kiki Member Benefactor

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      There is no proof that hearing was regenerated.

      However, there are no reports that it has not been possible.

      The possibilities aren't gone.

      If that is possible, an improved delivery method may also improve deeper, lower frequencies in the cochlea.
       
    20. Keith Handy
      Worried

      Keith Handy Member

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      Tinnitus only exists as a subjective experience, so if it's perceived to be softer, it is softer.
       
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    21. Nobody19

      Nobody19 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

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      Yeah! But in this case it probably won't help hyperacusis :(
       
    22. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

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      We don’t know that yet, and that’s a good thing.

      Research seems to point to central gain due to damaged cochlea cells as a factor contributing to hyperacusis. If the signal is restored from regenerated hair cells, it might provide some relief.
       
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    23. rei

      rei Member Benefactor

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      As a daily reader of this thread, that's what it looks like to me.
       
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    24. AUTHOR
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      RB2014
      Confused

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      You are right that they are just investigating, and the case could not even have any merit, but I've been through this before. These law firms have the paperwork all written up from the last case they put together. They find the most similar one, change some words, in some cases they even forget to edit some, then they file. It costs them very little and then FREQ needs to start lawyering up and it takes them lots of time and money to mount a defense. This is totally going to cut into their operating expenses at a certain point.
       
    25. Tezcatlipoca
      Question it

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      They're not investigating, they're fishing. If they had something, they would just sue, so why haven't they done so?
       
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    26. AUTHOR
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      RB2014
      Confused

      RB2014 Member Benefactor

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      They aren't just fishing, they are collecting fish. Right now they are waiting for more people to contact them and just taking names of people and institutions that have lost money. They will tell the people that they do'nt have to pay anything and have nothing to lose and that they will recover some of their lost money. Once they have enough people, each firm will start the lawsuits. It is just a matter of time for each firm to get to the right amount to make it worth their time. Then the lawsuits will start. It is coming. Too much money has been lost by investors.
       
    27. Exit

      Exit Member Benefactor

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      These law firms don’t work for free, especially suing biotechs. Time will tell but the biggest problem is the inefficient drug / delivery method...
       
    28. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      RB2014
      Confused

      RB2014 Member Benefactor

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      Right now they are all working for free. The number of law firms on this is pretty long. If they think there is a sizeable settlement to be had they will pursue it. Fishing is only the first step. If they do this to 10 companies and 2 pan out then they have won. It is common practice for them to do this. Again they have all the paperwork all ready to go from previous cases. It costs them very little to take this very far, but it will cost FREQ a lot to defend against it.

      Agreed, the delivery method is still a factor.
       
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    29. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

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      Dude, I'm just pointing out your own logical contradictions. It's not my fault you can't see this. You summarized your take on FX-322 with a bullet-point list of heaping criticisms and then inexplicably said you were still satisfied with them "all things considered". That doesn't make any sense, meme response or no meme response from me. Nobody's denying that this is a hard nut to crack but "all things considered" is no reason to turn very little tangible results into a sense of "satisfaction".
      They should hire Zugzug as a lawyer with the "all things considered investors should be satisfied" defense.
       
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    30. HootOwl

      HootOwl Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

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      Holy shit Zug, you got promoted from evangelist to lawyer, and you didn't tell us? wtf man, we would have thrown you a party.
       
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