Guy Claims to Have Cured His Tinnitus with Pramipexole and Ketamine — Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by GBB, Sep 27, 2020.

    1. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Someone claims to have cured their tinnitus using the below high-level protocol. Anyone know anything more about this combination of drugs? Tempted to try it.

      High dose Pramipexole and low dose Ketamine. I use Pramipexole daily and take Ketamine every 2 weeks, as I was instructed to by members of the multidisciplinary association of psychedelic studies of California. They also had me try MDMA near the induction of my therapy for some trauma-related damage to dendric spines. If you've heard of breakthrough drugs such as OTO-313 or AM-101 which are specifically designed for tinnitus, the former is an NMDA antagonist similar to Ketamine, and the latter literally is the S isomer of Ketamine.​
       
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    2. xyz
      Alienated

      xyz Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 mild T 2019 T worsening H onset
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown / probably noise induced
      When I search for Ketamine I see that it is mainly used for anaesthesia. Certainly if we take something that knocks us down completely we also don't hear tinnitus anymore. I hope OTO-313 has a more specific form of action.
       
    3. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      He only takes the Ketamine every two weeks - it seems like a much more precise regimen than what you allude to - basically keeping yourself sedated.
       
    4. Pitseleh

      Pitseleh Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      How would you get it prescribed ?
      Ketamine drugs are strictly limited to hospital use.
       
    5. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Steadily worsening since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      And yet people acquire it and use it, hmm...
       
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    6. Pitseleh

      Pitseleh Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Was that sarcastic ? English is not my mother tongue, so I'm not sure.

      What I'm saying is unless you are a drug dealer or know a good one, you won't get no opportunity to put your hands on Ketamine drugs. GPs, neurologists, psychiatrists etc cannot prescribe it either. It's limited to hospital use.
       
    7. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Steadily worsening since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I wasn't sarcastic. Just musing over the fact that if there's a will, there's a way.
       
    8. Steph1710
      Old hag

      Steph1710 Member Benefactor Ambassador

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Antibiotics - I think
      Was sarcastic. Made me laugh hard. Haha.
       
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    9. JYD

      JYD Member

      Location:
      Addison, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      High-frequency hearing loss
    10. Cernuto
      Spaced

      Cernuto Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced
      I tried Pramipexole (Mirapex) for a couple of months a few years back. It didn't do anything to help tinnitus. I never tried Ketamine.
       
    11. grate_biff
      Hurting

      grate_biff Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Moss, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma and or benzo withdrawal
      I have also tried Pramipexole. No slam dunk, but it might have helped a little. I was only on a low dose.

      I'm more interested in Ketamine to help with my severe benzo withdrawal induced depression. Or to make benzos more sustainable for long term use to avoid tolerance.

      Differential Effects of Two Chronic Diazepam Treatment Regimes on Withdrawal Anxiety and AMPA Receptor Characteristics

      Its not unphantomable that Ketamine could help. It blocks the excitorial (ie. Glutamat) system in our brain through NMDA receptor antagonism. One let off the gas as opposed to put on the brakes(GABA-A agonism) on a neuronal level. Tinnitus IS excitory activity!
       
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    12. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      I'm on Pramipexole now - I agree with what you said. Somehow Ketamine is almost impossible to get without an exorbitant expense here in NY. If I had a way to try it affordably I would.
       
    13. VeryUnfortunate
      Stressed

      VeryUnfortunate Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      January 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Hello, I am not sure if you know about this already but there is actually a trial for Ketamine for tinnitus in New York:

      Investigation of the NMDA Antagonist Ketamine as a Treatment for Tinnitus

      Also after a bit of research it seems that you can order what I believe are Lozenges or Troches of Ketamine through some online telemedicine practices. I believe I saw one place that has Ketamine treatment of Lozenges for around $250 a month. I am not too sure on how effective Lozenges vs Infusion Therapy is.
       
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    14. Ben Winders
      Pensive

      Ben Winders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic
      Just adding this here: I'm getting therapy (neurostimulation) at Brai3n institute in Ghent, Belgium. One of the leading institutes for tinnitus. They also offer Lenire there.

      One of the doctors there told me he is not a huge fan of Lenire in general but he started talking about Ketamine and how it shows promise.

      Just wanted to add this as a POINT for team Ketamine, if you will.
       
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    15. twa
      Fine

      twa Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017- mild /Sept. 2020-moderate
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      meds/acoustic trauma
      That's very interesting, I've been to Ghent years ago. Do you think the neurostimulation is helping? Sorry if you have already answered this previously.

      twa :)
       
    16. Chris Goodman

      Chris Goodman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Taking an antidepressant: Afflexor
      I'm starting it at a clinic in 2 weeks.

      They are available all over the US. Just try Yelping!
       
    17. Ben Winders
      Pensive

      Ben Winders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic
      I don't really think it is doing much. I am however thankful to have found Brai3n as they are the ones that started me on Deanxit, which is 100% absolutely and undoubtebly doing a whole lot.
       
    18. Fields
      Busy

      Fields Member

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma
      What is Deanxit? And, if I may ask, what does it do for you?
       
    19. Ben Winders
      Pensive

      Ben Winders Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic
      Deanxit pushed my tinnitus back into a closet where I still see it but where I care 80% less about it. The volume actually seems to be lower too (but this may of course be a side effect of my brain putting it into the proverbial closet).

      Search for Deanxit (on this forum), you'll mostly find Belgian references as the product isn't being sold / allowed in many other countries.
       
    20. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      I've been to Antwerp in the past, way back when De Ridder was still there with Brai2n. Then habituation happened and I sort of stopped looking for a cure.

      Now I'm unfortunately back in the game with severe tinnitus since 2 years. I have not gone to Brai3n at this point because of a lack of success stories and not really wanting to burn money on something that may not help. I have asked my GP about the Deanxit/Rivotril combo but they wouldn't prescribe it to me. I'm following your endeavours with interest and may need to reconsider going to Brai3n. I was born near Gent, still live in Belgium but a bit further away now.

      I always got the impression De Ridder got cast out of UZA because he couldn't prove his methods were clinically successful enough. Last time I went to UZA I got recommended TRT. Needless to say, I declined the offer.
       
    21. Ehren M
      Nerdy

      Ehren M Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/24/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      Did you find a clinical trial to join? Is your ENT giving you access to Ketamine explicitly for tinnitus? Thanks in advance if you're able to clarify these details. It's definitely something I'd like to try as well given the opportunity.
       
    22. Chris Goodman

      Chris Goodman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Taking an antidepressant: Afflexor
      Nope! Just a Ketamine clinic here in LA. No prescription needed or anything. Ketamine clinics are mostly used to treat depression but recently have become popular among us T’ers. Maybe it varies per state but in CA it's no harder than seeing a MD specialist/making a dinner reservation. Good luck!
       
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    23. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      This is 2021 and literally any drug you can think of can be easily and relatively safely mail ordered to any deliverable address in the world, thanks to the wonders of ToR. So, drugs have never been more accessible.

      I know one person who tried clinical Ketamine for tinnitus and had no improvement. My only relatable experience was with Methoxetamine, which I believe caused a significant (but short term) spike. Pramipexole is known to cause tinnitus.

      Brains are weird and some random person may have had a beneficial response to this. They may have had a spontaneous improvement unrelated to their weird drug use. They may be completely full of horseshit, it's hard to say.

      I wouldn't attempt this protocol until I saw some clinical work around it. I did consider a Ketamine regimen -- I could do it legally and safely at a nearby doctor's office -- but I am fairly dismal on the idea of it doing anything useful, and of course it would be much cheaper and easier to just get illicit Ketamine, but I'm a bit old for that ;)

      I've had tinnitus to some extent since I was 19. I used Ketamine at similar doses to what's described here for a period in ~2006-2007, and I do not remember any changes at all to my tinnitus, mostly just the world starting to turn into an incomprehensible cave that didn't have any words in it.
      Well, it's actually a fairly serious script that they have to write, but these clinics are set up to do that. They are pretty closely FDA monitored and this is a DEA-pad script, though; if someone decided to just start randomly selling Ketamine to any "patient" that rolled up, they would find themselves getting rolled by DEA.
       
    24. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Tinnitus control by dopamine agonist pramipexole in presbycusis patients: a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study

      I based my initial inquiry on this paper which seemed to show material beneficial effects on a group of people - I wouldn't agree that it is known to cause tinnitus anymore than it is known to reduce tinnitus. Just trying to be fair regarding the literature.
       
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    25. Chris Goodman

      Chris Goodman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Taking an antidepressant: Afflexor
      Totally. And I would hope they are monitored closely. All of the clinics I spoke with are owned by reputable doctors that all used to be anesthesiologists full time before starting Ketamine clinics. I was just making the point that I chose to interview 3 clinics in town with the best Yelp reviews and they could all have started the treatment within a week.
       
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    26. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Cynically, I'm going to go out on a limb and suspect that the quoted prices for these things were all in the 1000s of dollars, and insurance probably doesn't cover much of that, if any?

      I've heard of some people being able to get some coverage specifically for a Ketamine depression protocol, but even there you're usually getting hit with a bunch of out of pocket fees.

      So, we're just seeing the stratification of drug access -- people who are more affluent will always have an easier time legally accessing controlled substances. If you are rich enough, you can find a doctor to prescribe anything.

      Ketamine clinics end up being utilized by people with serious medical problems, because they cost 100x as much as illicit Ketamine does, and illicit Ketamine is super easy to get because it's a widely used veterinary anesthetic with a tremendous distribution network via The Family etc.
       
    27. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      beliefs are makyo and reality ignores them
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Woah, my bad; for some reason I was thinking of Finasteride, mental block, probably because the brand name shares a couple first letters with Pramipexole.

      Yea, that one was always slightly on my radar, but dopamine agonists have a side effects profile that includes extrapyramidal syndrome and some other nasty stuff. This appears to be better tolerated than the old school antipsychotics, but I'd still be pretty careful.

      There aren't any studies combining this stuff with Ketamine, I presume?
       
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