Homeopathy: Products for Tinnitus (Nonsense, or not?)

Water can retain memory. We have gone beyond Newtonian physics and are benefiting from and understanding more about Quantum Physics.

None of us are quantum physicists so reserving judgements is best right now without further research.

In this video you will see that there are scientists tackling this issue of water memory and their findings. Who are we on this forum to dispute their findings?

I suggest that watching this video will enhance one's understanding of why water can retain memory, but at the 35 min mark there is discussion about homeopathy.

"What we know is a drop. What we don't know is an ocean." Sir Issac Newton

Water's Memories ~ The Mystery of Water ~...

Keeping an open mind,
Calin

 

Thanks for sharing such amazing video , i blindly believe in homeopathy no matter what, this video shows deep info

 

Indeed, I am not a physicist, but I do have basic education, and even with my basic education, I already spotted one concrete error by the narrator: "[water]... making it lighter" (at 1:57-2:01). Water does not become lighter when it freezes. It becomes less dense. That's why it floats.

If indeed water has memory, then I find it surprising that it is so easily influenced by an event such as dropping a flower into the water - which - apparently changes the observed droplets under the microscope (according to the video). If water has some sort of memory, then it must be carrying and retaining all that accumulated information from thousands and millions of years. The fact that a single event such as droping a flower into the water can change the droplet's appearence must mean that all the previously retained information is then erased(?) "somehow" - or that "new information" is dominant to all previous information. Which of course means that the water does not have a memory at all, or at least only very short term memory (just like some human beings). As I see it, the good professor contradicts himself...

When I watch this video, I cannot help but feel certain associations with the video The Living Matrix which is some of the worst trash ever produced. The presenter will simply make a series of claims which the audience then soaks up blindly (or some do). Already at the beginning of video, the two presenters are making claims such "[water] ...it stubbornly resists when we try to make it obey the established laws of physics". The presenter never mentions what those laws are. And probably for good reason. Because I don't know either...

This "documentary" is simply a series of one sided claims.

 

"it stubbornly resists when we try to make it obey the established laws of physics..." The presenter means Newtonian physics. That's why thinking and applying regular physics can be baffling. Try Quantum Physics.

I did not find much that was contradicting.

If something floats isn't that implying lighter? Semantics.

There are principles that identify relationships and behaviors of strangeness such as entanglement and the spooky action at a distance that Einstein referred to with Quantum Mechanics. Try Physicist David Bohm's "Implicate Order"! Mind blowing but hey... I am not a professional theoretical physicist.

The video is only one small example... there are countless experiments and research that are not on You Tube or even in the mainstream media.

For a miniscule example of a You tube of Quantum Mechanics visit here https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...tured-around-quantum-biology.5670/#post-58688 This presentation was done during a course on Singularity at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada.

Keeping an open mind,
Calin

 

ATEOS has kind of said what I was going to say here. The idea is that a homeopath works some kind of magic to make the water forget everything else it has ever interacted with, then makes it remember the solutions they mix in.

I have a lay knowledge of quantum physics, I've read lots of books on it. I won't even pretend to have a full understanding of it as it defies comprehension, we human beings just aren't advanced enough to be able to fully interpret it in our minds.

When it comes to quantum anything is possible - I could technically merge atoms with the chair I'm sitting on, may exist in many dimensions at once, a glass I drop could just as easily reform itself after the break. The mystery is that the things which quantum suggest are actually possible don't happen, but at a sub-atomic level they are all possible. How on earth can atoms be made up of chaotic and unpredictable particles when they are so dependable to the classical physicist? We really know so little so keeping an open mind is the only thing I think we can do.

Anyway.... Taking the water / memory conundrum away, we're left with somebody choosing a substance that causes a disease or symptom. The science is that over 200 years ago a man decided to take lots of things then write down the ill effects they had on him. Homeopathy was born.

As I said above, as a preventative measure that is good science. But once you already have an illness the logic doesn't work for me. We don't go for a flu jab when we catch flu, I don't eat out of date food when I get food poisoning, if I get tetanus I don't rub the wound with rusty metal, etc.

There really isn't any logic to the principles for me, I just see a lot of rich people on one side and many people being taken advantage of on the other.

Nobody in favour of homeopathy seems interested in answering any questions asked here. Surely there is some evidence somewhere that can be put forward for its efficacy if it works? All evidence says there is nothing in the bottles / pills and that it performs no better than placebo when properly tested.

One final question: Why do the rich homeopaths not run a clinical trial to show the world that homeopathy works? They have a lot of money, the industry is with billions, yet they have never conducted a properly controlled clinical trial.

Sorry for the very long post, got a bit carried away.

 

No problem - I don' t mind long posts! I read it all!

Thank you for sharing your position.

There was a very rich man James Randi I believe that challenged homeopathy with a million dollars to prove it worked. You will find this challenge on You Tube videos. Homeopathy lost.

Years ago I decided that homeopathy was questionable and stayed clear of it after seeing that video and challenge. Every once in a while though I would try some sort of homeopathy and wasn't clear about whether it worked or not.

However, recently I saw a bunch of positive reviews about Hylands Migraine Relief and tried it. It worked - several times with a simple headache. And... I suggested it to others and it worked for them.

I did try the Cold Calm for colds a year or more ago and it wiped the symptoms out in a day.

So... some things can work for me and others... not so sure. And if nothing else I chalk it up to placebo effect!!!

 

Water does not disobey the laws of newtonian physics. So if that is what the presenter means, then the narrator is wrong (again). Water expands upon becoming a solid - which is unusual (as most solids contract when going from the liquid to the solid state). I suspect that the narrator was hinting at this "law". But that is not a law; it is a "property" specific to water.

The narrator is trying to "seduce" the audience by suggesting that water is somehow "supernatural" and "mysterious". There is nothing supernatural about water. It is unusual perhaps. But it does not resist the laws of physics.

 

Ok... then why does water retain memory?

 

It doesn't.

 

He did a paranormal challenge too and that also did not get collected. He's a really interesting man, professional skeptic. I love to see things questioned, on both sides of an argument, it helps us develop an understanding and shapes the future - without skepticism and questioning we would be in the prehistoric age.

I used to get migraines when I was young. Nothing took the edge off them (though there weren't any real advanced medicines). I used to envisage my head as a void (some may say that is a factual vision) with a box in the middle. The migraine was a black ooze moving around my head, I shifted positions as I visualised it being closed into this box, each side coming down to trap it.

I improved myself most times with this trick, the power of the mind to make a condition better. And you know of course that I'm going to say that's what homeopathy is, the same as me performing that ritual, belief in the power to heal.

 

Hi Guys and Hello CoolBeer! I am going to back you up on the homeopathic medicines for Tinnitus. I got mine - idiopathic since May this year. The volume is down by almost 50% - sometimes just a slight hiss and disappears completely on the days I have rested well. I am dead sure the nonstop broad spectrum medicines given by my homeopath have reduced the volume dramatically. It fluctuates and is never too loud expect on very stressful days.

I'll be happy to share the names of the meds and potencies in case anyone is interested. Hope to have a ring free life ahead!

 

Selerie pls do share, thank you

 

Steve I'm wondering if you tried this visualization technique for your tinnitus?

 

Do you know what, I havent. It seems silly not to have used something like this on my tinnitus when I had success with migraines. I will try and develop something that makes sense and see if I can make it work, something like imagining the tinnitus as a line of sound and visualising myself rising above it and leaving it in the background, I can probably make some sounds to go along with it too.

If I can make something work I'll post it in a new thread.

 

Awesome! I'm currently trying visualization with my severe hyperacusis to see if I can help it. I've been meditating daily for several years (Zen fashion) but never tried to visualize anything so it's kind of difficult/exhausting but I imagine I will get better with it with practice. I know there's a lot of stories of people healing a wide range of conditions with visualization so I feel it's worth looking into. Let me know how you get on

 

Will do. Although I would have to admit that healing is not something I expect. At the most I would imagine a psychological effect, to train yourself to lose the noise and ignore it.

 

Hi - I'm 75 years old - a few years ago I was on loads of medication for several chronic complaints - after a couple of years of homeopathic treatment, am now on only one prescribed tablet a day, and my medical doctor is impressed. Here in uk also the arguments for and against are on going - but I would say that you have to give it a bit of time, be prepared to make changes in diet (coffee and peppermint tend to minimise the benefits) and work with a trained homeopath - he/she will vary your treatment as your system rids itself of whatever imbalances are causing the condition - for all illness is just that - an imbalance at some level - and you have to do your bit by working on emotional as well as physical problems - homeopathy helps us to heal ourselves, rather than waiting for something or someone to do it all for us - it's team work. I don't doubt I shall be labelled a nutter by many of you - but because of past success I'm about to hit the homeopathic trail to work with my tinnitus - which is of the type affected by Electromagnetic Frequencies. Each to their own - but rubbishing other people's methods and beliefs really isn't helpful - positive encouragement is! So whatever rings your bell - go for it!

 

A lot of information here @coolbeer, but why do you not mention CHINIMUM SULFURICUM? I thought it was the main homeopathic remedy for tinnitus

 

I don't know if homeopathic remedy works or not, apparently it works pretty well for @coolbeer, I did some quick research on homeopathic treatments for T and tihs is what I found:
# Chininum sulfuricum 9CH or 15CH
# Natrum Salicylicum 9CH or 30CH
# Ignatia Amara 5CH
# Arnica 15CH
# Colocynthis 30CH
# Arscencium album 15CH
# Natrum Sulfiricum 15CH
Information source website France Acouphènes, Has anyone of you tried these? As I have understood, it's a long term treatment!

 

I have tried homeopathy for 4 months with absolutely no change

 

And kind of obliquely related, and interesting ... http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/water-crystal.html

The photographs are intriguing.

 

I know this is a kind of old thread, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents worth based on my experience with homeopathy and my reading over the last 20 plus years.

If homeopathy works, its means of action is very likely not chemical in the same way that pharmaceuticals work. The means of action is very likely not something that we know very much about. Homeopathy more than likely is akin to quantum mechanics which if you know anything about is quite counter intuitive. We are accustomed to thinking about things based on our observable experiences and we expect all things to work that way. The fact is there is much that we don't know about the universe and all that is in it. In fact I have no doubt that the amount of knowledge and understanding that we have so far accumulated in history is far, far exceeded by knowledge and understanding that we lack.

Let's take quantum mechanics and in particular quantum entanglement. Albert Einstien was quite skeptical of quantum mechanic theory but he did come to accept (and then later rejected it again) . He was mostly skeptical of it because it predicted quantum entanglement which he called "spooky action at a distance", and which he just could not convince himself was real. Quantum entanglement is the phenomena where the properties of one quantum particle can be teleported to a another instantaneously (even faster than the speed of light if I'm not mistaken) over great distances. The fact is that despite Einstein's reservations, time has proven that quantum entanglement is real. There is a great amount of research going on at present regarding using quantum entanglement with regard to cryptography. The teleportation feature and other features of QM allow the public key to for a encrypted message to be transmitted in such a way that it gets to the recipient of the message instantaneously and in such a way that the recipient can detect whether anyone else has intercepted it.

I'm telling this story because it is a clear example of something that doesn't make sense on the surface, but is in fact very real.

Think back about what people thought 400 year ago. If you tried to tell them that everything was made of electromagnetic waves, mere vibrations in the invisible electromagnetic media that such waves transverse, then they would likely not believe you anymore than skeptics of homeopathy disbelieve its proponents. So skepticism is understandable.

Contrary to statements that there is no proof that homeopathy works, there are in fact several good studies that show homeopathy works to a degree. And interestingly the degree to which it works, per an article I read recently that summarized the results of a group of studies, is not all that different than the degree which western pharmacology works. The article basically broke it down like this. For both, the failure rate is about 42%; that is, 42% of the time the remedy/drug does not bring about the desired affects. The rate at which a both actually make matters worse is about 5%. And the success rate - i.e., the desired effect was manifested - for both is about 53%. I don't have the article handy (and don't think I could find it again if I tried) so I'm giving round numbers for both based on me summarizing things in my own head after reading the article. There were actually some differences in the numbers, but they were remarkably close (to get specific, I'm pretty sure the article reported the overall "made patient worse" rate was 7% for pharma and 4% for homeopathy - not surprising since pharma products are in much higher concentrations and often dosed at levels that are in fact toxic - that is the desired action is to actually kill off some of the patients cells - think chemotherapy). I suspect that many people are surprised at the low 54% success rate for pharma, and it surprises me, too, but the fact is time has shown that many, many pharma products do not perform as advertised. It is not at all uncommon for real world results post-FDA-approval of a drug to be significantly less positive than the results of clinical trials. A study I read in a well respected medical journal (again sorry, I don't have time to track down these studies or they sources - you'll just have to take me at my word, or not - I won't be offended if you don't) reported that data collected on all cancer drugs after the drugs came to market reveals that only something like 30% of approved cancer drugs show any effectiveness at all. Again, if you doubt me and you want to spend the time, Google this for your self and report back here what you find.

In my own experience, the success of homeopathy has been a very mixed bag. I tried it for the first time roughly 20 years ago for problems I was having that the MD world had no solutions for. I was having great pain in my hands, feet, and hips. Tests for rheumatoid arthritis factors were very mixed. There were no consistent results from repeating the same tests. From a MD point of view I did not have RA, but there was no explanation what was causing the pain, so the treatment was to take the normal OTC anti-inflammatories. They helped, but they did not resolve the problem. Taking drugs that have the potential for causing more harm than good (I'm talking in terms of possible outcomes, not probabilities: Tylenol can cause liver damage, aspirin can tinnitus and macular degeneration, but the odds are low if you stay within the recommended dosage). I wanted something that cured the problem rather than something that just reduced the symptoms. So I decided to try homeopathy after my mother read an article in our local newspaper about it. Being the scientific sort, I had strong doubts, but I saw no downside to trying it. It worked, and I was rather astonished. In a short time, I was back to myself. Clearly it could have been a coincidence. I'll really never know. I tried it for several other things - none of them life threatening or even as bad as the joint pain I had experienced - over the ensuing 5 years and it seemed reliable to me. I used it twice for a sinus infection and it seemed to work both times. I used it for plantar fasciitis with success, too, after nothing else - physical therapy, anti-inflammatories, icing... - worked. (Boy, was that treatment experience painful. The doctor injected the remedy in the heel of my foot right where the plantar fascia attaches to heal bone. It hurt like h&%$ for several hours, but in a few days all the pain was gone.) Jump ahead 15 years when I began experiencing some of the medical problems that still plague me, and my many attempts with homeopathic remedies have all completely failed. I used the same homeopathic practitioner (who also happens to be an MD). Go figure. I was convinced that homeopathy worked 15-20 years ago. Now, based on my more recent experiences, I'm inclined so say its a very hit and miss kind of thing.

The bottom line is, I don't think it should be cast as something that is a sham. There IS evidence (not proof) that it works. There are many trustworthy practitioners who believe it works. In Switzerland it is given coverage equal to that of traditional medicine by insurance. And there are many recipients of homeopathic treatments who vouch for it. You can cast all these people who I have no doubt are as every bit as intelligent as the naysayers, as being misguided, but I think that is a mistake. I think it is that we simply don't know enough to say for sure whether it has scientific basis or not. We simply don't know many, many things about our world, the universe, and a host of things that affect our bodies in small ways. I see no reason to not keep it in the "there might be something to it" category. Would I spend a bunch of my time and money seeking treatment with it if at first it doesn't succeed, or if no one else reports success with it for ailments similar to mine? No. Would I support (and contribute to) continued research on it? Absolutely. Would I encourage others to try it when nothing else is providing benefit to them? Yes, I would and do.

Would I say you should spend money on the many supposedly homeopathic remedies for tinnitus advertised on the web? No. Those remedies - based on the sheer amount of garbage internet junk promoting them, the methods used to promote them, and the clear money grabs they make - and very likely not effective. If they were as effective as their promotions indicate we would all know someone who had a first hand positive experience. I've not met any such person, spoken with such a person, or heard of any such person in a way that I felt was trustworthy.

 

Medics are told at med school that within their lifetimemost things they have been taught will be proved wrong. If you follow this dictum to its logical conclusion very little in medical science can ever be correct. No matter how advanced we think we are we are wrong most of the time.

 

Homeopathy is a sham.. Taking an active ingredient and diluting it to the point where it's undetectable will not work.

 

Here is a link to a webpage which I found interesting, some people commenting said that they were helped by the two homeopathy products Conium Macalatum and Telerium Metallicum. these were suggestions of Dr Banergi who is very well known in the field of homeopathy in India. I think its worth a try.

http://joettecalabrese.com/blog/homeopathy/vertigo-menieres-tinnitus/

 

@attheedgeofscience & @Steve
there is actually a scientific publication made by a Nobel price in medicine that showed that water has memory :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=luc+montanier+2015

A French and Italian centers were involved. Despite there is a big debate on this subject, this publication + the fact that Mr Montanier is Nobel price of medicine should, at least, strongly motivate other research center to reproduce and/or extent those experiments because doing only criticisms is too easy.

 

I'm not sure what this proves in regards to homeopathy. It "suggests" something but is a long way from supporting the notion that water has memory which only a trained homeopathy practitioner is able to harness completely, through an unknown process, then embed only the memory of a compound that they wish to embed there.

If water indeed retains things at an undiscoverable level then surely it retains the memory of everything it has encountered? And if it is undiscoverable, how does anybody know what memories it has already? Surely there will be all sorts of things present that will work contrary to the compound that the homeopathist wants to embed?

Critique is the basis of science. If we blindly accept every notion put before us then we have no way of knowing what is legitimate.

 

@Steve
"Critique is the basis of science".
It depends of the quality of the critique, if it's constructive or not. Sometime people critics because too lasy to take action, or because of ego issues.

"If we blindly accept every notion put before us then we have no way of knowing what is legitimate."
I fully agree. That's why I said that it could be interesting to reproduce this experiment in others labs.

 

I have had tinnitus for about 3 years probably induced from wear and tear, swimmers ear, etc on my left ear. I hear a high continuous tone.

For the most part I have habituated to it and there have only been 2 periods of anxiety since. I know that everyone's tinnitus is different, but I can say that for me my remedy has been to move on with life and don't focus on it.

A few weeks ago I had a spike in the volume and was concerned about it which made me focus on it and the anxiety set it for about a week.

I am now past that, but did counsel with a friend during that time period who has every doctorate possible in homeopathic medicine and herb-ology.

She gave me two things to try. One is a homeopathic remedy that I take under my tongue 4-5 times per day for a week as a test to see if it helps at all. I am just ending that week trial and perhaps it has made it a bit quieter, but no real difference. (I should point out that my friend isn't promising any miracle cure or making claims - it is just to see if it helps and is based on research and a recipes primarily with Meniere's patients suffering from dizziness, etc.)

The second trial starts tomorrow and it is to put a drop of essential oils directly into the ear canal a few times per day.

After reading some posts here about olive oil causing spikes and in some bad tinnitus results, I am hesitant to try the oil directly into my ear.

Any feelings on this? Does the risk outweigh the reward?