Is This New Tinnitus Spike Because of My Earbuds?

So, I know a common opinion on this forum is to avoid earbuds, but after digging deeper, I've found a decent amount of people on this forum that still use them. I've been to 3 audiologists, and they all told me that if I use them at a reasonable volume I'll be fine.

So basically, I got tinnitus a little over a year ago and shortly after joining this forum I started avoiding earbuds like the plague (mainly due to Michael Leigh's advice--not trying to call him out, he's just who I listened to). I didn't really notice much of a difference in my tinnitus--it continued to fluctuate throughout that year but didn't go away. Meanwhile, I just enjoyed my life less without earbuds. My workouts became less enjoyable, and I eventually stopped exercising altogether. My study habits suffered because music had always gotten me through boring sessions. I didn't even enjoy walking places anymore.

After about a year, I decided to head my audiologists' (and other people on this forum's) advice and buy into the logic that it's about the overall loudness of the sound, not the source. I started listening to earbuds again at low-mid volume while exercising and studying.

For about 2 months, I didn't notice any changes in my tinnitus. I had said that if my tinnitus got worse, I would stop, but it didn't get worse.

Except for recently. About 2 weeks ago, I developed a high pitched, piercing tone in my right ear. I haven't changed anything about my lifestyle, so is it possible that despite my ears not reacting to earbuds before, that they are reacting later for some reason? You'd think that my ears would have given me warning signs earlier if earbuds actually irritated my tinnitus. I know I'm not technically damaging my ears with earbuds at a low volume, but this piercing noise is concerning. My left ear isn't affected at all--just my right.

I don't want to give up earbuds again because I feel like I've finally started enjoying my life again. But I don't know what to do about this new tone, and I've never had a spike that's lasted this long.

So, in short: is it possible for the earbuds to jus the affecting me now, two months after I started using them again? Or am I just being paranoid? Do you use earbuds, and do you think earbuds are harmful for tinnitus?

 

I am convinced that earbuds gave me tinnitus so like you I gave them up. The way I figure it, anything that gave me tinnitus can make it worse.

 

Audiologists often perform tests that give their patients the gift of a lifelong tinnitus.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tests-procedures-to-avoid.26681/
When asked, they say that those tests aren't dangerous.
Those overly optimistic audiologists are the reason for the surprising results of the poll below
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...orum-more-useful-than-your-ents-advice.28006/
Given your experiences, you might want to reply to that poll too.

Yes, if you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes some time until you get to see the objects on the other side of a wall.

Tinnitis IS the warning signal that whatever you have been doing is harming your ears.

You have a choice:
loud tinnitus + the enjoyment of music vs. quieter tinnitus
Choose the option that you prefer the most.

Of course.

If you harm your shoulder, wait for it to heal and then begin exercising or doing manual labour, initially you will not feel any pain. If you keep at it, since your shoulder has been compromised, eventually you will start feeling pain, and if you ignore it, the pain will keep getting worse.

 

@wonderful9235

I know you are not calling me out wonderful. The advice that I give in this forum is just that, advice. Each person is different so it is up to the individual to decide what they want to do, try my suggestions or not. ENT doctors, Audiologists and Hearing Therapists are healthcare professionals they are not tinnitus experts.

Whilst ENT doctors are physicians that know about the anatomy of the Ear, Nose and Throat and able to treat these organs medically and sugically, most of them know very little about tinnitus. Those that have tinnitus it will usually be mild, and not to the severity of most of the people that attend this forum seeking help for the condition. Tinnitus is a very common condition that comes in many forms and intensities and no two people will experience it the same.

When there is no underlying medical problem causing the tinnitus, as in Noise induced, the ENT doctor will usually refer the patient to Audiology to see a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist - this is what happens in the UK I do not know what happens in other countries. These healthcare professionals understand tinnitus in much more depth than an ENT doctor. It is not unusual to find some of them have tinnitus. This can be particularly helpful when giving counselling as part of CBT and TRT to a tinnitus patient. Unless the therapist has tinnitus they cannot fully understand how the condition affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. Therefore, in my opinion they will not be able to give what I call, good quality counselling. A tinnitus patient will quickly pick-up whether a person has a full understanding of tinnitus and the way it can affect a person's quality of life. This knowledge cannot be learnt from a book or at medical school to any large degree. It is learnt by personal experience of the condition and corresponding with people affected by it.

As I have said tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities. Most Hearing Therapists and Audiologists that have tinnitus, will be able to manage it well and have habituated for quite a considerable length of time. Rarely will it reach the high levels of intensity and be debilitating as some of the people experience in this forum. Their job when asked or giving counselling to someone with tinnitus, is help them get back to enjoying life doing everything that they want to and unencumbered by restrictions. All this is perfectly fine up to a point. I have mentioned many times in this forum that I do not advise anyone with "Noise induced tinnitus" to use headphones even at low volume, as there is a risk of the tinnitus becoming worse. This may not happen immediately because some people notice a gradual worsening of the tinnitus over time. I have also said not everyone with noise induced tinnitus will be affect by headphone use.

Hearing Therapists and Audiologists want to help their patients so will often tell them what they want to hear. Using headphones will cause harm providing the volume is kept low. Remember, they want to help the patient get back to enjoying life doing everything that they want to within reason. Unfortunately, a lot of people with noise induced tinnitus are affected by headphones use, and if they follow the advice of their Hearing Therapist or Audiologist they may not realise the risks they are taking until it's too late. There are many posts written in this forum, by people with noise induced tinnitus, used headphones and regretted it because their tinnitus has increased and will not reduce to its previous baseline level.

The choice is yours whatever you decide to do.

Michael

 

LOL. You got louder tinnitus soon after you stopped listening to his advice, and you Still talk as if he gave you bad advice. Incredible!

Fyodor Dostoevsky

Oh well, the good news is that

 

Well said @Bill Bauer Those that do not listen will eventually feel. Feel the wrath that this terrible condition tinnitus, can unleash on them if it becomes severe. I have been laughed at, ridiculed and abused because of my comments that headphones can make tinnitus worse for some people with noise induced tinnitus. When Audiologists and ENT doctors tell them what they want to hear, and their tinnitus increases and will not reduce they will be the ones in the suffering. Unable to sleep because of the distress they are in.

A member of this forum habituated to noise induced tinnitus for 6 years and it kept low. She was enjoying life to the full and working. She decided to return to using headphones keeping the volume low. Within one week the tinnitus increased and now she cannot work due to the distress it causes.

Even if a person has tinnitus that was not noise induced, I advise them not to use headphones.

Michael

 

Is it possible that this gave you a new tinnitus sound 2 months after the fact? I doubt it.
Also, how is a low volume earbud worse than a normal ambient volume?

I developed new sounds by doing nothing, they just appeared out of nowhere. Tinnitus is really random, you can't really know how it is going to evolve.

From what I read, music is really important to you, and you're depressed without it. State of mind is one of the most important, if not the most, thing to have a better tinnitus. Maybe try to switch to headphones instead of earphones?

Also, do you overprotect? Maybe the high pitched sound is a reaction of your hearing to normal sound or music because it has habituated to very low volume? That's what happened to me when I got tinnitus, I overprotected and the simple fact of going shopping would give me high pitch tinnitus when I would come home in silence. Now that I don't overprotect I can go in "loud" places and have no high pitch at all.

2 months is not what I call soon after, and also his tinnitus didn't get louder, he got a NEW tone, which can happen even if you stay in complete silence, I know something about it.

 

Personally I will never put earbuds in my ears ever again. Period.

 

Again the headphone subject at low volume is freaking me out. For me, it’s my work that requires a headset on one ear, I talk to clients about 4/5 hours a day. I keep the volume extremely low and haven’t seen changes in 2 years. I don’t know if I have extreme tinnitus or mild but I don’t sleep 7/8 hours like I used too. Every time I go to the gym, I sleep more so that’s something positive I’m going to keep doing.

What I would like to know more than anything is, does everyone's tinnitus progress into some direction? Other than habituation, does it improve on its own after multiple years or get progressively worst till you need a hearing aid? The opinions are very different on that. You got one side saying it gets better with protection etc... and another side saying new tone stays the same. Well if it does get better with protection, then no matter how bad your tinnitus gets, you can always see improvement.

 

This statement would have made sense if his new tone were to begin two months after being exposed to a loud noise (e.g., that of a concert). In this case we are talking about two months after he Began Using Headphones. So he has been abusing his ears for two months, and eventually got his new tone.

New tones appearing for no reason is very rare. They appear as a result of exposure to noise a lot more often. Bayes' Theorem would predict that given that he got a new tone, chances are that it was due to noise abuse.

 

I would think you should be OK to continue then. The average human voice doesn't stress the ear like music and TV or movies can. You can use earplugs under the headphones if you feel the need, and if it doesn't interfere with other aspects of your work too much.

 

An important question,whats low-mid volume?That really doesn't mean anything since people have a varying definition of "low".Was it low enough to have a full conversation with someone from across the room? If not ,then the volume is too high.You should always be able to easily hear you surroundings.Also,how long will you say you used them daily?

Now perhaps you are someone who spike's easily and earbuds may not be for you.Now that you have had a spike,it will be up to you to determine how much earbuds played a role,and if having T get worse is worth the risk.You might want to play it safe and stop using.

 

There's a distinct difference between headphones & earbuds. Headphones typically have a wide dynamic range whereas earbuds tend to have a limited mid-to-high end often tinny sound. Yet in forums such as this, the two seem to be synonymous with each other.
While I've since given up both, IMHO, earbuds are worse for your ears than headphones.

 

"...the type of headphones that are the most likely to cause hearing problems are these earbuds. A 2007 study found that adults turn up their music louder when they’re wearing earbuds than over-the-ear headphones. It also discovered that users wearing earbuds were more likely to turn up their volume to compensate for background noise (in this case, street noise and “multi-talker babble”) than people wearing over-the-ear headphones. A further study, from 2011, expanded on that research, finding that teens wearing earbuds turn their volume up to overcome background noise, some to harmful levels, more than those wearing noise-isolating, over-the-ear headphones."

https://onezero.medium.com/why-airp...-especially-bad-for-your-hearing-20f32b6e02e2

I am in the earbuds are dangerous camp, and have only rarely used them through the years. If you were having an allergic reaction, the answer is to stop all offending agents until things calm down, and improve. If the T is getting worse, the analogy is to stop all noise exposure, and get it better. You did the experiment to reintroduce it, and if the T got worse, than you have the answer that the earbuds are contributing to it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/generation-deaf-doctors-warn-dangers-ear-buds-n360041

They keep predicting an epidemic of hearing loss from them, but Apple marketing has lots of folks wearing them.

 

We should highlight the main fact in your articles @Digital Doc, people that use earbuds tend to turn it at higher volume. That's the thing: listening to music too loud.

The problem is not the earbuds themselves but the fact that people use them at higher volume than for example headphones.

Also we are talking about "normal" earbuds. Not in-ear ones, and not noise-cancelling ones. The first study is from 2007, 12 years ago, from a time we didn't have all these new earbuds.
Also in this first article they say 73 dB in earbuds is fine... when 73 dB is already quite high.

I personally have in-ear earbuds and I can't hear people talking if they are not next to me if I just put them in my ears without music.
When I listen to music, I put the very first level (one tap) and that's enough to listen to music and cover almost all the sounds around me. I don't need more. And I can hear the music is not loud because it's not loud.

We should take into account that the OP needs music into his life: "My workouts became less enjoyable, and I eventually stopped exercising altogether. My study habits suffered because music had always gotten me through boring sessions. I didn't even enjoy walking places anymore."

So instead of advising him to stop using earbuds, I would advise him to use in-ear earbuds, or headphones with passive or active noise reduction. So he can listen to music at very low level, which will not hurt his ears.

 

There is a lot of variation in earbuds and headphones, with different designs, volume levels, and degrees of blocking of outside noise. This is also evolving, for example the new airpods are noise canceling, a feature recently added.

If a user is having a problem, the safest advise is to lay off the offending issue, in this case the earbuds.

As you have this all worked out, to use the headphones at the lowest volume, with a good seal to keep outside noise out, then that is useful info for others. Unfortunately, many folks tend to use other types of earbuds without the ear sealing feature, and too often crank up the volume.

 

Micheal I gotta ask,what do you consider "low" volume?Give me a real world example.Do you mean low as in conversational level?Do you believe if someone can easily hear their surroundings and hold a conversation with someone from across the room,they will cause hearing damage/T increase?What makes sound produced from headphones special and harmful?Isn't 50dB, 50dB regardless of source?

One thing I have learned is that people often believe they have their headphones "low", when in actuality they have them much higher than what they believe they do.Don't you think some people who report T worsening after headphones use may,perhaps,fall under this category?

Now I'm not trying to pick a fight,or try to prove you wrong in anyway.I'm trying to reach a better conclusion,since many have continued use of headphones without worsening T or hearing loss.Seems like loudness of noise,whether it's external speakers,headphones,or everyday noise seems to be the bigger culprit here.

 

It might not diminish his hearing, but it might give him louder tinnitus or new tones. I am sure the impact on his life will be a lot more severe (than the impact of lack of music) if he ends up with louder tinnitus.

We can never be sure whether or not an action will result in worse tinnitus, but here we can be sure that it will increase the risk that he ends up with worse tinnitus. Whether or not this risk is worth it is up to OP.

 

Hi Michael,
Daniel here. I come in peace.
I am curious to your feelings or answer to this question.

I have quite severe hearing loss and am a candidate for hearing aids. I also have sensitive ears, my hyperausis is in remission, and I am very careful. I would not use ear buds, phones etc... which leads me to my question. What about hearing aids?

Would you consider them dangerous from your experience? I have read some forum members have great success quieting their tinnitus with hearing aids, but others with sound sensitivity, i.e. hyperacusis can’t tolerate them.

So yah, that’s my question, open to all, but was interested in your opinion.

Thanks,
Daniel

 

@Auron

If I thought you were trying to pick a fight, because I say headphone use can cause harm to some people with noise induced tinnitus, then I wouldn't bother replying to your question. I realise that you are new to tinnitus and seeking information about headphones and for this reason decided to answer you. If I am a proven wrong or believe that I have made a mistake on any advice I give in this forum I welcome constructive debate based on experience and knowledge of the individual that chooses to highlight any errors I have made. That is how we learn because no one knows it all.

When appropriate I will take into account information from websites, if I believe this information has been written by a person or persons that know and live with tinnitus and their information is not based solely on science or because they are medically qualified, because that does not tell me they know about tinnitus and how if affects a person’s mental and emotional wellbeing. To understand this, a person must have experience living with tinnitus, not just when it’s mild or moderate but severe too.

I respect doctors and other medical professionals that work in ENT. They have a job to do and I believe most do it well, being able to treat medical problems associated with the ear and auditory system. However, the majority of these people do not have tinnitus, those that do probably have it mild and nothing like the severity that some people experience in this forum, as I have mentioned in my first post to the Author of this thread.

Some members in this forum like to direct people to websites on the use headphones and tinnitus and other matters to do with this condition. If this information is written by people that live with tinnitus then I haven’t got a problem with that. If all a person can do is paste website links, without backing it up with knowledge gained from personal experience with tinnitus and corresponding with people living with it, then it tells me the individual knows very little about tinnitus. I am talking about the way this condition can affect a person’s mental and emotional wellbeing, their quality of life and the means to help people to improve on this.

Low volume is whatever the person decides for themselves what is low. When I say I advise people with noise induced tinnitus not to use headphones even at low volume, what I actually mean is "Never ever use them".

A lot of people with noise induced tinnitus also have hyperacusis, sensitivity to sound. Each person will experience this differently. My hyperacusis was so severe once that during conversation with someone I had to ask them to please lower their voice as my ears hurt so much. Again, it is how a person is affected by their noise trauma, we are all different and will experience the effects of tinnitus and hyperacusis differently.

I have written about this many times in this forum. Please read the post below.

Again, this is up to the individual what they call low volume. As I have previously said, anyone that has noise induced tinnitus, and uses headphones whatever the volume is, risks their tinnitus becoming worse. I say again, we are all different and some people with noise induced tinnitus are not affected by headphones. However, the risk is there and it is real. People I have corresponded with that have used headphones and their tinnitus has increased, have vowed never ever to use them again. Anyone with noise induced tinnitus, that uses headphones, in my opinion hasn't experienced the severe debilitating effects that headphone use can cause to people with NIT. For this reason they continue to use them and I believe this must be the logical conclusion. A person would have to have something wrong with them, if they noticed their tinnitus increased using headphones to a level where they are in distress by it and continue to use them?

You have to decide for yourself what you want to do. You have asked me quite a few questions and I have replied to the best of my knowledge and experience living with tinnitus for 23 years, counselling and corresponding with people that have noise induced tinnitus.

I hope this helps.
All the best

Michael


I have expressed many times in the forum that it is a risk for anyone that has tinnitus which was caused by exposure to loud noise to use any type of headphones even at low volume. There are people in this forum that have tinnitus which was caused by exposure to loud noise and use headphones without any problems. However, there are many people that have Noise induced tinnitus and used headphones at low volume and regretted it, because their tinnitus has increased and will not reduce to its previous baseline level.

The ear canal is approximately 26mm long. When sound is directed into through headphones, it has only one place to go and that is towards the eardrum. This can cause irritating to the cochlear situated behind the eardrum, due the syncopation within music. When listening to music through speakers, there is some dispersion before it is picked up by ear and enters ear-canal. However, if music is too loud one can still cause irritation to the auditory system which can spike the tinnitus and possibly make it worse.

There are people in this forum that have tinnitus which was not caused by exposure to loud noise and are quick to say using headphones causes no harm for people with Noise induced tinnitus.These people do not have NIT and therefore, know nothing about the condition. If you choose to follow their advice because they are telling you what you want to hear, that is your choice. Just remember, should your tinnitus increase then you will be the one in distress all by yourself with no-one to help you. Peruse some of the posts in this forum from members that have NIT and used headphones and regretted it.

 

While I agree the impact of tinnitus worsening would be worse than the impact of lack of music, I don't agree with your first sentence.
We know the OP have been using earbuds at "moderate" level for 2 months and that he got a new tinnitus tone.

We are not sure that his new high pitch was due to it, and we are not sure it was really a moderate level.

Also, if an active or passive noise cancelling is safe, why not simply advise him to switch to that?
That way, he could still enjoy music without potentially harming his ears.

 

HI @Daniel Lion

I appreciate that you come in peace.

I will always try to help someone if they ask me for help in the manner that you have done which is with respect. If a person disagrees with me and is respectful I haven't got a problem with that. People are entitled to their opinion and I am always willing to learn, for I been wrong on certain things that have been brought to my attention. However, I will not tolerate insolence, bad manners, abusive language and blatant disrespect. That is who I am and I'm not going to change. I am here to try and help people as I was once helped many years ago in a forum similar to this. If someone makes a nuisance of themselves then I will give them a wide berth.

I have addressed your question previously in the forum from other members and will so again. Hearing aids and white noise generators work completely differently to earbuds and headphones and will not normally cause irritation to the auditory system when adjusted correctly.

Hearing Aids and BTE (Behind the ear) white noise generators are very similar. The main body rests behind the ear. A small plastic tube is attached this wraps over the top of the ear and enters the ear canal. At the end of the tube is a very tiny hole or aperture where sound emits. Earbuds and headphones use a small speaker or diaphragm to generate sound and these are much larger than the tiny hole in Hearing aids and white noise generators. The speaker or diaphragm can produce strong sound waves in the ear canal even at low volume compared to the tiny hole in plastic tube of a hearing aid.

I have used white noise generators for many years and continue to use them and never had a problem. There is another type of white noise generator, which is bullet shaped and fits in the entrance to the ear canal. This also has a tiny hole that emits white noise. I also use this type of WNG and never had a problem with it irritating my tinnitus.

Hope this helps.

Michael

 

Thank you.

 

You are welcome and best of luck.
Michael

 

Active noise cancelling isn't safe. If you search this forum, you will see many testimonials where people describe having problems after using noise cancelling headphones. I wear Bose 25 noise cancelling headphones when I fly. I wear earplugs under those headphones, to protect myself from the headphones (I don't listen to anything while I wear them).

 

Do you have an explanation on how people can have problems after using noise cancelling headphones?
I fail to understand how it is possible.

 

3 audiologists. Do you have any idea how stupid all of these so-called doctors are in this field? Ask them if they think microsuction is safe and if they say "yes" then you'll know they are stupid for a fact.

 

Perhaps the waves generated by the headphones to cancel the sound waves around the user, don't get fully cancelled, and those remainder waves are enough to cause problems.

Just because we can't come up with a model about how giraffes can survive while having such a long neck, doesn't mean that giraffes don't exist.

I realize that without a model of how damage can occur, the empirical observations of numerous people attributing their spikes to those headphones have a chance to be due to people mistaking the true cause.

Personally, I choose to not ignore those testimonies. The damage due to me not using those headphones even though they are harmless, seems to be a lot lower than the damage due to me making a mistake and using the headphones when the reality is that they can cause serious tinnitus spikes.

 

Not even just that. Higher frequency sounds can actually be amplified.

 

Bill, the goal of a noise-cancelling headphones is not to protect from the outside sound waves, it is to lower or delete these waves so the person can listen to music at a really low level.
Basically you are saying not protecting from sounds at all (=not wearing headphones) is more harmful than wearing noise-cancelling headphones, so it is not logical...
Do you understand what I mean? I hope I am being clear.

John, I understand why you could say that, is it because the higher frequency are harder to counter because of the shorter wave length?
If yes, let me tell you that it is the reason why noise cancelling headphones don't actively cancel higher frequencies, they cancel (lower) these frequencies with normal passive noise reduction.
This have been of course taken into account by the engineers behind it, they only treat the signal that have a wave length long enough to be cancelled without any risk of doing the opposite of cancelling. So no worries on this side.