Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      I don't think you're misinterpreting the account at all. Between visits 3 and 4, tinnitus volume increased by about 2 decibels (but Neuromod states that a temporary increase in tinnitus volume is normal), and in conclusion, pitch and tone changed more than actual volume.

      To be honest, this doesn't strike me as a glowing testimonial, and by itself the concluding statement is a bit confusing but I don't feel that's down to @Drone Draper. I feel it's more down to Neuromod whose device appears to be perplexing even its own users.

      I've said this a few times and will probably say it again, but I think that without the hard data, i.e. audiogram, MML, TLM and finally THI, it's going to be very difficult to draw any meaningful conclusion from anecdotal subjective experiences.

      @PeterPan's data should come online next year sometime and I feel that it will be this more than anything that will give our community its first, coldest, hardest objective look at what exactly it is that Lenire can do.
       
      • Agree Agree x 6
    2. Ruse
      No Mood

      Ruse Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL & TMJ
      Agreed.

      The tone in my right ear is actually the loudest but is easily maskable so bothers me less than the much higher pitched and quieter tone in my left ear which I hear most of the time.

      Even a slightly reduction in pitch or volume would make a huge difference for me hence I’m still confident about the treatment.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    3. Martin69
      Artistic

      Martin69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      (Health) Anxiety
      Usually I am a very skeptical person. And I do not expect miracles from Lenire.
      But we need to consider it is a new treatment for tinnitus.

      I am sure that Neuromod and others are learning from current patients and could (and hopefully will) improve the device. If the device is changing something, this is better than it is doing nothing.

      Of course it is not the first device that is working with sound and others have completely failed.

      I know that the device will come to Germany next year. They will charge at least 3000€. Even though I have the money, I don't know if it will be worth it to do the treatment. Probably not and better waiting what results the device from Dr. Susan Shore will bring.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Like Like x 1
    4. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To Mentos:

      From that standpoint you are surely correct.

      A high pitched dentist drill sound cannot be masked by my Widex Hearing Aids.
      But a white/violet noise sound can be (and it blends in at night with the sound emitted by a running fan, and although the two combined sounds intensify the sensation, sleep is still obtainable).

      The question is: Is this realistically the extent of the improvement to be expected and available from Lenire?
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    5. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Pretty much exactly. It’s the first actual tinnitus treatment, so of course it’s not going to be perfect. It created a model that will be refined until it's really good, and put the foot in the door for other similar treatments to go to market. Susan Shore and Sonic Labs will be able to get FDA approval very quickly once this passes the FDA.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    6. raymilf

      raymilf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise trauma
      Where did you hear that?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 5
    7. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      Yes. I wouldn't apply for a job in a library, but in most day-to-day situations, it's more easily masked. I was in a 2 day training seminar last month, and thanks to the ancient heating system being switched, I was struggling to hear my tinnitus.
      Thanks. I know from LinkedIn that they are looking to partner with audiologists in the UK, so hopefully you can access Lenire with ease, if you want to.
      Think about it this way: what would be more annoying and intrusive over time - The Flight of the Bumblebee on repeat OR the constant sound of a soft fan? I would love to tell you that I had a massive decrease of 30 dB of my tinnitus, but I want to be honest. I consider this to be an improvement, but I still have tinnitus.

      I don't recall Neuromod making truly strong claims, but they have said that a lot of users have had a "significant improvement". What that means in an academic setting can be different to what it means to us as laypersons. I want anyone who parts with their money to go in with their eyes wide open and not expect too much. By Neuromod's standards, my improvement may be seen as statistically significant, but to some it's probably underwhelming.
      Haha, sure. I will see if I can post a recording of the actual music and upload to the user thread.
      I'm sorry to hear that, but hopefully you will appreciate an honest review over a shill. There are some more positive testimonials, hopefully you could be a better responder. I want to everyone dealing with Neuromod to be as clear as possible with what they can expect. €2,500 plus flights and accommodation is a lot of money to some.
      Exactly. I've had various sports injuries over the years. On Good Friday this year, I popped a rib deadlifting. It was as fun as it sounds. I've also strained my lower back deadlifting. I will take a strained lower back over a popped rib any day. Both are injuries. One is significantly worse.
      They were surprised I'd been given hearing aids, given my "normal" audiogram, though masking can sometimes help even people with a "normal" audiogram. They said I could continue use them if I wanted to, but obviously not using masking while using Lenire.
       
      • Like Like x 5
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
      • Hug Hug x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    8. jmasterj
      No Mood

      jmasterj Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic?
      @Drone Draper, I am just curious if your tinnitus is somatic?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 2
    9. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      Is that when you can basically modulate it by moving your jaw? If so, kind of.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    10. jmasterj
      No Mood

      jmasterj Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic?
      Yes, basically if you can modulate it by neck or jaw movements or pressing on certain areas on your head or face. I was just curious how Lenire worked for somatic tinnitus. There really hasn't been much conversation if it works better for somatic or non-somatic tinnitus. Mine is very somatic, but I will still go through the treatment.

      As of right now, Susan Shore's device is only for somatic tinnitus.

      Thanks for the answer.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Genius Genius x 1
    11. Tybs

      Tybs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fall from stairs
      I've experienced about twelve sounds so far, most of them roughly the same volume.

      With 10 of them, I hardly cared about having them around: I got used to them within a week and they did not bother me afterwards.

      However, the other two are/were wáy more intrusive. Luckily one of them seems to have vanished/suppressed, at least I haven't noticed it in weeks. The other one is actually my first sound: it is a tone that increases/decreases in volume every second. Up to this point, I never truly got used to this one. The continuous fluctuation keeps messing with my attention span whenever I hear it.

      Luckily, another sound sort of came to my rescue eventually: over a few weeks time, its volume slowly increased up to the point that it exceeds my first tone. This new sound is a simple hiss: though its always there during the day, I rarely notice it, unless I have a really bad day. Yet it masks the other sound, and it feels much better than that up/down attention seeking tonal intruder.

      Trust me, pitch and tone definitely matter.
       
      • Agree Agree x 6
    12. Ruse
      No Mood

      Ruse Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL & TMJ
      I am also intrigued by this as I believe that @Redknight also had very somatic tinnitus.

      I can go from making certain tones twice as loud to almost silent by making certain neck and jaw movements.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Like Like x 1
    13. LostOutWest
      Conehead

      LostOutWest Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Does anyone know if people on the current Lenire waitlist will be offered spots in the soon-to-be-open German Clinic (more relevant for travel patients), or if Germany will have their own, separate queue of patients?

      Would hope that they'd balance supply of appointments and demand from patients across the two, and avoid folks signing up for both sites.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    14. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      Ah, right. Not really. What seems to affect my tinnitus is noise exposure, flights and exercise. The latter typically affects it in a good way, my tinnitus tends to be at its most stable upon waking or post-exercise. I've not had anything else, like caffeine or alcohol, have an impact.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Informative Informative x 1
    15. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      @Krolo is your cricket tinnitus in the ear or in the head? I have cricket tinnitus located in the back of my head, it developed after metal concert few years ago. Your experience gives me hope Lenire may indeed help me.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    16. Sironketchup

      Sironketchup Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress
      @Mentos are your crickets somatic?

      I have an electric wave in my head, I can feel it sometimes. When it's weaker it gets like crickets.
      And it's very jaw somatic. I'm just eating gummybears and I can hear it squeak in my head.

      Is there going to be statistics what kinds of tinnitus is best helped by Lenire?

      I think this type is quite common, and might (hopefully) be highly connected to the cochlear nucleus.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    17. pinklights98
      No Mood

      pinklights98 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Noise Exposure
      Mine is very somatic, I will ask them this at my consult next month.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    18. Krolo

      Krolo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999 , Worse in September 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Volume
      @Mentos @Sironketchup
      The cricket part of the sound is mainly in my left ear but can travel to head and right ear from time to time.

      Mind you that at the worst time I had almost infinite amount of sounds in my head and through different steps + time it seems that Lenire might put another dent into it.
       
      • Like Like x 3
    19. erik
      Cool

      erik Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012 or earlier?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      That is not that unusual. I think many tinnitus people have it this way.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    20. Martin69
      Artistic

      Martin69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      (Health) Anxiety
      From the clinic. I cannot give more details at the moment. It is all "under construction" and no concrete plans (starting date for example) are known. Once I know more, I will share.

      BTW, people here wrote already that someone from Germany is shadowing the assessments. So I guess, Germany will be the next country where Lenire will be available.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    21. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Mine included. The regular tones (louder one in left ear), I can double in volume just by clenching my jaw.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    22. Allan1967

      Allan1967 Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1997
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I'm back in Dublin next week. I have not had a great run at this. In fact every time I try Lenire my tinnitus seems to get worse... All I can say is I'm in a worse position that I ever was when disaster struck this time last year. I've got so much going on in my ears and head now I don't know where to stop or start.

      I have a constant low pitched hum which I'm sure is blood pressure related in my right ear, a high pitched whine, periodically I get bells and now I have wine glass rim sounding hum which has came on and stayed on since last Friday which is starting to freak me out.

      My tinnitus is just constantly changing and totally unlike my original tinnitus. I don't even know why I'm bothering to go tbh.
       
      • Hug Hug x 11
    23. friend74
      Doubtful

      friend74 Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1994
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      Lenire will be more expensive in Germany than in Ireland?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 3
    24. david c

      david c Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2012
      Really sorry to hear that Allan. Looking through the User Experiences thread you are far from being the only person whose tinnitus has been worsened by Lenire.

      I think I would avoid these kind of in-ear sound therapies as it seems they are just making things worse for you. Minimising loud noise exposure where possible and maybe having some relaxing background noises at a low level will be the best way forward.
       
      • Winner Winner x 1
    25. Jan64

      Jan64 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Utrecht, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      1983
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise
      Why will Neuromod charge more in Germany? What is the motivation for that? Both (Ireland and Germany) are 'euro-countries'...
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 2
    26. MRItechssuck

      MRItechssuck Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2002-2015, 10/17/2019-?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise, MRI
      And that is how I know I’m having a bad day, when clenching my jaw matches the loudness of the tinnitus... which I’ve had a month of bad days. Oh well.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    27. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Yeah there were two others, but so far his is the only permanent increase.
       
      • Like Like x 3
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Informative Informative x 1
    28. JohnK
      Busy

      JohnK Member

      Location:
      London
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/26/2015 (habituated) 5/13/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Doxycycline (2015) Otimize ear drops [neomycin] (2019)
      Speak for yourself. I'm waiting for the Lenire appointment. But please do cancel yours so I can get to it sooner.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Funny Funny x 2
    29. Martin69
      Artistic

      Martin69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      (Health) Anxiety
      @Jan64

      They said that the Lenire device will be 1900 €, which has to be paid directly to Lenire via credit card.

      But they will do a complete diagnostic test before they start the treatment and they said that this will cost approx. 1000€.

      This is for the first visit. (n)

      I can only say: This is Germany again. They charge whatever they can and take as much as they can from desperate people. This is all I know. Do not ask for any more details, because I do not know more.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    30. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      I guess they are bound by agreement with Neuromod to charge for the device itself no more than 1900 €, but they are free to charge whatever they wish for initial examinations.
       

Share This Page

Loading...