Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. friend74
      Doubtful

      friend74 Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1994
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      Thank you for the information.

      i would call this 'abzocke'. Maybe I'd rather fly to Ireland than give my money to the greedy people in Hannover. I wonder what Neuromod thinks about this (I guess they just don't care...)?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    2. Ivkopivko
      Speechless

      Ivkopivko Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      don't know, probably motorsport + headphones for last years
      I have been approved for Lenire directly at Neuromod in Ireland = I guess I passed all necessary checks at first visit and I'm good to start using Lenire. There won't be such need to undergo the same checks and pay 1000€?
       
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    3. raymilf

      raymilf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise trauma
      1000€ just for the initial assessment?

      Scam artists...
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    4. Mathieulh
      No Mood

      Mathieulh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Paris, France
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/24/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Chronic headphones use and acute noise induced trauma.
      I still have no news from Neuromod and the more I hear about it from the people who have gone ahead with Lenire, the less I am inclined to go ahead with this regardless, considering the lack of positive results I dare say this increasingly feels like an elaborate scam. I hope I am wrong.
       
    5. Martin69
      Artistic

      Martin69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      (Health) Anxiety
      Yes. Looks like it. And if they charge for the other appointments, too, one could end up with much more than 2900€.

      Probably better to fly to Dublin directly to Neuromod. At least you can be sure they know exactly what they should do with you and how to set up the device. But flying 4 times is a lot of hassle. Maybe and hopefully Neuromod will reduce the number of appointments in the future.

      But I am not willing to pay 3000+€ just because it is in my country (4 hour car drive btw).
       
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    6. david c

      david c Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2012
      Actually if you read through all the User Experience posts you'll find that it's a bit more complicated than that. As well as reported increased in loudness there have also been reported new tones. For example:
      Overall in the User Experience thread the numbers who have had no change or change for the worse certainly is greater currently than those who have had change for the better.
       
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    7. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Lenire should also come to Belgium in May, from what the people at Brai3n said. They still have to announce that officially and may even withhold from offering it. They also spoke of an initial assessment to check what treatment would be best for you. After the assessment you might end up with rTMS instead.
       
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    8. JohnAdams
      Festive

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Vatican
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 1st 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Aspirin Toxicity/Possibly Noise
      The background static sounds like Tinnitus Mix lmao.

      Sounds like some alien shroom parlor with singing frogs or something singing the national anthem of the bug nation.
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    9. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      Hahaha! I recorded it at work using my headphones over the Neuromod headphones. It does sound like Tinnitus Mix in a way, but I found that a lot harsher. Hope all is well, John.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    10. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Yeah that’s true but for worsening there really have only been three. They were Allan, Gee, and Ade.

      According to Drone Draper, apparently most people report a temporary worsening for 30 minutes or so after the first few weeks of treatment but this subsides and many of those go on to have improvement.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    11. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      After all the comments here and in the Lenire User Experiences & Reviews postings, the treatment sounds like a very expensive habituation therapy.

      If you watch the testimonials carefully, you will see very vague improvements like:
      The intensity changed
      The reaction to it changed
      The tolerance rate changed

      Sorry, this is not worth the 2150€ plus flights, hotels, taxi.

      The therapy is like Russian roulette in fact. Nobody knows what might happen when doing the treatment beyond the three months.

      However, if you are desperate, you try everything. And this Neuromod knows I suspect.
       
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    12. pinklights98
      No Mood

      pinklights98 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Noise Exposure
      To be honest, this really isn't that expensive. Yes, when you factor in flights and travel--but this isn't Neuromod's fault. They are working on expanding. This isn't some habituation device--and even if it was, it's still a lot cheaper than things that aim only to promote habituation such as the Levo system and Neuromonics, which can be up to $5,000 for sound therapy.
       
      • Agree Agree x 8
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    13. Sironketchup

      Sironketchup Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress
      I think it is amazing that some people found relief from Lenire.

      This. is. a. historic. moment!

      For the first time in human history (probably, who knows who stole the ancient high culture history?) there is a working tinnitus treatment!
       
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    14. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Exactly, my friend. You have the right mindset.

      For those all or nothing people, Lenire is not for you. For those who revel in a chance for even some reduction, it's finally here.
       
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    15. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, viral?
      It sure seems like you should probably do it all in one trip and then have remote updates. All reports have the original settings set (I forget what they call the settings - SP?) at 1 to start, and then 4 at week 6, then back to 1 again at 12 weeks. The travel costs/time are the only thing that gives me pause.

      Hopefully they work out the remote updates by the time they give me an appointment.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    16. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      26/02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma
      That is exactly what I am scared about. We don't know what might happen to the brain if we use it more than 3 months. All the people who use Lenire more than 3 months are guinea pigs. I don't want to be a guinea pig.

      By the way I will cancel my appointment. I need more user experience and scientific studies before trying it.

      User experiences here for the moment are not really positive.
       
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    17. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Cool, maybe I can get my appointment sooner!
       
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    18. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      I'm hoping for the same with them being able to reduce trips to their clinic. I'm in the US!

      I think they could reduce it to 2 trips. First an assessment / fitting appointment, remote settings change(s), then a final appointment.

      I think that would be a much better way to settle this multiple appointment issue.
       
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    19. acute
      Depressed

      acute Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music. Stress, meds, Invisalign ?
      Please, everyone who won't be going to their scheduled appointments, cancel your appointment ASAP. There are too many people waiting for a slot since June. Many of us.
       
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    20. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, viral?
      Mere puddle jump. I’m in Indonesia.
       
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    21. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      It being imperfect doesn't bother me. Those like Chris who keep saying we're expecting perfect cures are building strawmen. What bothers me is the results in the field being so far off from Neuromod's internal stats. As has been discussed weeks ago, that can change with more data on our side, but the longer it goes on the more a clear pattern emerges that should be seen as the final word. It's like no matter how many times you flip the galton board, it's going to produce a bell curve, more or less. If you only put a few balls in it, you can get weird random results, but a full assortment of balls will produce the bell curve each and every time. Once the dataset gets big enough you can't really expect the averages to suddenly change.

      giphy.gif
       
    22. threefirefour
      Rebellious

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      You're right, they said 66% of sufferers received clinical significant results in reduction. This is more or less mirrored in the overall internet data I got so far. We have that bell curve, the bell curve just shows that 45% of people had mild improvement. They said they had an overall reduction of ~7dB, which is fair. But as Josh1994's testimony shows, the probable error on our behalf was assuming 7 decibel reduction was a huge amount but it wasn't as major as we thought it was.

      Again it works, but it's not a major change in most cases. It takes the edge off, you can decide if it's worth 2500 quid. In my case I wouldn't because I don't need it but I'm not going to go around saying the vast majority aren't improving because this is mathematically untrue.
       
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    23. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      By any chance, has your data measured the claims that it works better for people with better hearing?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 2
    24. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Not exactly a puddle jump, but yes you are way farther lol.
       
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    25. Drone Draper
      Jaded

      Drone Draper Member

      Location:
      U.K.
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      NIHL, ETD and work stress
      I don't think you can say it's a habituation device, there's enough improvement to suggest otherwise, but I think the data also shows that a massive improvement is statistically a smaller group. I think @threefirefour showed that most testimonials show "some" improvement.

      I do, however, think it's good if these testimonials are making people make a decision either way.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
    26. Sytex75
      Wisdomatic

      Sytex75 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Merritt Island Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1/15
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Working aircraft on tarmacs
      I am welcoming all this back and forth bantering... great debates going on here, becoming more and more intense as a lot more Lenire users are divulging their experiences.

      When I do make my final decision, I feel by then I will be well educated by Lenire, trial participants, actual purchasers of device, our in house trial attorneys, statisticians, and also our great debaters... thanks fellow TTers!!!!!! Merry Christmas to you and yours and have a Happy New Year :)
       
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    27. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      Can anyone estimate the current wait time between email requests and appointment dates?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    28. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, viral?
      All I know is that I've been on the wait list since late July and I still don't have a date in hand yet.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
    29. Mathieulh
      No Mood

      Mathieulh Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Paris, France
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/24/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Chronic headphones use and acute noise induced trauma.
      How is it not Neuromod's fault when they still do not deliver any other option than to go to the one clinic in the world that dispatches this "treatment"?

      They should have realized the kind of demand should be answered by more than a single clinic that's not even opened 5 days a week, it's no wonder the waiting list is so huge, anyone with half a brain would realize that much.

      If I add that, thus far, taking into account the testimonies from this forum, we see no improved benefits above placebo and we have no access to a peer reviewed study regarding Lenire and that the "testimonies" from Neuromod's own page appear to have been performed by paid actors, this is either scam 101 or a recipe for disaster, take your pick.
       
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    30. JayBowson

      JayBowson Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Idiopathic/Bad shoes?
      It isn't Neuromod's fault that they don't have the capital to open up 500 clinics worldwide nor the manpower to train people for those locations. Nor is it their fault that people choose to travel for it. Honestly now. Neuromod could have taken a completely different tactic and only accepted people from the Republic of Ireland. I'm sure they've enough demand to fill the slots. But they didn't do that. Be thankful.
      Now that we have a few more results from actual responders in the User Experiences thread and the result percentages are starting to favour Lenire better than before, I expect we'll see more of this "placebo" nonsense goalpost moving. Here's the thing chief.
      Neuromod are not obliged to pass the Tinnitus Talk Skeptics Non-Placebo Certification in order for their product claims not to be bogus. You do not get to decide what level placebo sits at thankfully.
      Demonstrably untrue. That is all.
       
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