Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. annV
      Fine

      annV Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown - possibly hereditary
      Have a read:

      Here's Why the Jury's Still Out on Lenire
       
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    2. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      To Rio80:

      This was my analysis on 05/28/20:

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu

      This study indicates how truly valuable Tinnitus Talk is. We would never have gotten this thoroughly researched, unbiased data through any other source. I intend to make an additional donation.

      To summarize. If you undertake Lenire:
      1) You have slightly more than a 2 out of 5 chance of a reduction;
      2) You have slightly more than a 1 out of 3 chance of no change;
      3) You have slightly more than a 1 out of 5 chance of getting worse (and in some instances being compelled to discontinue).

      I am disappointed that there was no category indicating that it was eliminated completely.
      Did Lenire ever warn prospective users that this 1 in 5 chance could occur? What concerns me is those who dropped out because of adverse outcomes. Does that mean that this worsening was permanent or long term?

      I will be very curious about Lenire's response to all aspects of the report.

      Do I want to spend in excess of $3,000.00 for a 2 out of 5 chance of improvement (and a 1 out of 5 chance of worsening?)

      I am reminded of Clint Eastwood's classic remark, "Do you feel lucky? Well punk, do you?"

      It takes all I have to maintain even a semblance of stability given my present condition.

      Any worsening would be catastrophic with consequences that I prefer not to imagine.
      Each of us will have to make our own carefully measured assessment before going forward with this.
       
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    3. Martin69
      Artistic

      Martin69 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      (Health) Anxiety
      The webinar just finished. There was not much new for most of us.

      They presented the Lenire results from the Neuromod studies. Q&A was about costs, treatment length, treatment locations etc. They also presented some slides about what tinnitus is, where it manifests in the brain, that it is a damage of the auditory system, nerve cells are overreacting etc.

      They also promoted the device. But not in the way it is the holy grail. They admitted that there are not enough patients yet (in Hannover, Germany) to show significant results.

      For German speakers, it is recorded and can be viewed later again. I have no link yet.
      The most interesting part for me was to see how patients progressed during treatment in Hannover. They had had only 13 patients so far (I guess also due to COVID-19).

      8 patients from 13 clinically improved. But remember this could be only 7 points on the THI, which is really low. 11 from 13 had a lower THI overall, 2 a higher THI.

      They also had an interview with someone who had a very good improvement.
      See the picture for details.

      SomeResultsinMHH.jpg
       
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    4. friend74
      Doubtful

      friend74 Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1994
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      Danke.
       
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    5. Ricardo1991
      Wishful

      Ricardo1991 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      The world may never know..
      I think if things work out next year, I will try Lenire. I want to at least give it a go. It will be an expensive experiment but who knows!?
       
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    6. Sevv

      Sevv Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12.04.2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      My parents told me yesterday that there was a feature on tinnitus on a program on TV on Monday. They featured how three people were coping with their tinnitus and then had an interview with the head of the ENT ward of one of the most important hospitals in my country.

      Neuromod was briefly mentioned and the head of the ENT ward was familiar with bimodal stimulation (and knew that it wasn't available yet in my country).

      I guess that's something? The interview was very brief though, so there were no amazing details. I thought it would be interesting to share.
       
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    7. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      Here is the link to the webinar recording:

      https://www.lenire.com/de/die-wissenschaft-hinter-lenire

      Of course, it’s in German but you can at least see the style and graphs how they presented Lenire.

      I still cannot believe that this shit helped more than 80% of the patients.

      Probably it’s relaxing to have 2x30 minute breaks by doing a pseudo-treatment. The same effect I assume would be achievable if patients listened to pseudo music and in parallel get a massage on the neck for instance...

      People think this technology would do something, and they expect some results. That's a recipe for placebo.

      If there really was a positive effect, it’s probably 20% instead of the claimed 80%. This is what I think and believe.
       
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    8. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Hell
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear Infection
      I do feel like Lenire will benefit us, but not right now. We first need to restore the underlying issues in the ear.
       
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    9. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Based on what?
       
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    10. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      Based on my own experiences with all kinds of different treatments from the past. Based on scientific reports about the placebo effect. Based on the feedback here on Tinnitus Talk and the Web. Based on the videos by Neuromod. Based on the very little improvements of patients during the trials, which they claim are robust. What do you want to hear exactly?

      It’s not always the ear, which creates tinnitus in the brain. There are several brain areas which can be hyperactive and crossing the auditory system. The root cause doesn't matter with Lenire, they say, as long it’s not objective tinnitus. It shall desensitize the perception and brain activity. I don’t believe that tinnitus is completely an ear issue. There are many deaf people without tinnitus or even people who have perfect hearing (no hidden hearing loss as well) but have tinnitus. Medication and other things can cause tinnitus. There are subtypes and Neuromod or the scientists still don’t know the details and underlying processes.

      Bimodal stimulation might work, but this Lenire prototype is not the final solution.
      It will take another 5 years to see and learn from this new way of treatment.
       
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    11. DaveFromChicago

      DaveFromChicago Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Headcold/Flu
      There once was the treatment Lenire
      That was supposed to silence the Ear;
      It was great in Theory
      But made us Leery
      When failures were posted on here.
      Whenever I have a spike, I attempt to rely on that quote from "Macbeth":
      "Come what come may,
      Time and the hour runs through the roughest day".
       
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    12. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      I asked because I counted the number of positive vs negative reviews in the User Experiences/Reviews thread here and positives outweighed negatives.
       
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    13. ThomasC
      Lonely

      ThomasC Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      The two worst cases have improved a lot.
       
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    14. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Can you elaborate? Just curious on what you mean (not trying to disagree with you, just not informed).
       
    15. ThomasC
      Lonely

      ThomasC Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      Look at the chart in the message I quote. It shows the evolution of THI for each patient. Two patients went from a THI of almost 100 to 50. It's a major improvement.
       
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    16. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Ah thanks for clarifying - that's pretty amazing! We should all be so lucky.
       
    17. Mathew Gould

      Mathew Gould Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck/Jaw misalignment
      People should have two THI scores. One for good days and one for bad days... I'm a 25 and a 45.
       
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    18. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Can't agree more. I hate taking a THI because I know that I am significantly different on different days or weeks.
       
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    19. Halsy

      Halsy Member

      Location:
      Toronto
      Tinnitus Since:
      Sept. 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Abscess tooth
      Loss of neuroplasticity and tinnitus are inextricably linked. The creation of new neuroplastiticy helps - helps a lot of neurological issues, not just tinnitus, so look at it as insurance against the common neurological problems that come with aging. It also takes time to create. It doesn't happen overnight. It's part of a consistent, long term regimen, like taking your daily pills. If you have high blood pressure and you pop a pill for it once in a while it's not really going to help is it?

      And the best way to create new neuroplasticity is via the vagus nerve - which is why the electrical stimulation is done via the tongue. The more pliant your brain is, the better it's able to resolve confusion in the brain - which is what tinnitus represents.

      Anyone who thought Lenire would be an overnight cure clearly doesn't understand what's involved. It's a long term therapy. Some people luck out and see great progress, or even resolution, rather quickly but for most it will be a long time coming. But for anyone who's been suffering from this accursed condition for years on end... what else are you doing with your time? You've got nothing but time. Utilizing said device twice a day for 30 minutes each isn't a big ask.

      I'm glad the bloody vaccine is upon us because I'll be heading over to get fitted and kitted just as soon as it's feasible to do so. And I'm going to listen to 'What's the Frequency Kenneth?' all the way there. :p

      In other good news we may see Dr. Shore's signal timing device appear before the end of 2021. What a time to be alive! :)
       
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    20. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Maybe we should use it in conjunction with Psilocybin.
       
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    21. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      First: Lenire is targeting the trigeminal nerve, not the vagus nerve.

      Target is the dorsal cochlea nucleus.

      Second: according to both trials they have seen the biggest improvements during the first 6 weeks! After that there was only little progress. This is the reason why they tried to do a 2nd parameter setting to boost the improvement, which was successful according their study (again within another 6 weeks).

      You can try Lenire long-term of course. Nothing to lose... Worsening? Who knows that for sure?

      We are all guinea pigs for Neuromod.
       
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    22. Sironketchup

      Sironketchup Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL / Stress
      I'm just starting to take L-Theanine before my sessions, and often I'm a bit high on weed at my evening sessions ^^

      I also thought about getting a vagus stimulation device and use it instead of my second Lenire session.
       
    23. Jon duff

      Jon duff Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      7
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Hi all.

      Do you think over time with more patient data, an AI algorithm could be created to better fine tune Lenire?

      I was just reading how someone discovered an antibiotic protein that kills all drug resistant bugs.
       
    24. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Maybe but one thing I've been surprised by and disappointed in has been that they really don't collect any data. At least they haven't with me. Granted it has been weird times and I couldn't go back to their office, but there has never been a follow-up THI or any attempt at subtyping my tinnitus to correlate with the efficacy of their treatment.
       
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    25. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      Interesting interview with Hubert Lim by the ATA about bimodal stimulation and Lenire.
       

      Attached Files:

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    26. Julien

      Julien Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hit on the ear+otitis
      Hi, I'm from France.

      I read about Lenire in a newspaper article. Is it available in France?
       
    27. Lurius
      Wishful

      Lurius Member

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      September 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Valsalva maneuver
      No, not yet. It's available in Ireland, Belgium and Germany.
       
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    28. Sam Bridge

      Sam Bridge Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/gigs probably
      Is anyone currently considering going down the Lenire route?
       
    29. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016-2019 (Mild, Cured) 8/2020 (Severe)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      I would if I didn't have to FLY TO IRELAND... It's not even the money or inconvenience... my ears just can't handle it.

      Can you purchase a unit without going there?
       
    30. UHPTS
      Wishful

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I'm surprised that after about 8 months of Lenire usage with no change to my tinnitus my tongue tip is going to "expire". Looks perfectly fine to me, no need to change it.

      They charge 250 euros for that piece of plastic. They build this little gimmick in to keep us constantly paying? Are there no warranties? Are they allowed to scam like this?
       
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