New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Does anyone know if Dr. Shore has tinnitus herself? I remember some speculations and claims that she indeed does have it, but I can’t recall her being vocal nor explicit about that. Not that it matters much when it comes to her treatment, but still this would mean she may have personal interest in making it work.

 

It was from @Hazel's notes on the Palm Springs Hearing Seminar thread.

 

Prof. Thanos Tzounopoulos admitted that he has tinnitus in one interview. But I have no knowledge of whether Dr. Shore has tinnitus.

 

Dr. Shore has tinnitus. She told me that in an email. Her tinnitus is in the head.

 

Why doesn't she just use the device on herself?

 

Maybe she has (?)
Maybe hers isn't somatic (?)
Maybe it's mild and she's fully habituated (?)

 

It works for non-somatic tinnitus too, on the order of 3-5 dB reduction, which is the difference between standing 10-feet from a noise source and 20-feet from a noise source, so not a trivial reduction.

As someone with both somatic and non-somatic tinnitus, I'm not convinced of the heterogeneity of this condition at all. It's too improbable that I'd have both.

 

Well that has cheered me up a little as I kept reading again and again on here that it doesn't work for non-somatic tinnitus. If it does something for it, it's a start.

 

I agree, I think the assumption is that it will work for non-somatic as well. No one checked with the guinea pigs whether they could modulate their tinnitus by moving their jaw and they saw improvement.

One thing, just for clarity, where did you get that 3-5 dB reduction from? Dr. Shore's presentation showed a 12 dB reduction after 12 weeks for the studied patients (all somatic). Where did you get this lower reduction number for non-somatic treatment?

 

All we know is the success was based on the 119 people in the clinical trials. Yes, we are desperate to understand if those outside the trial parameters would benefit but we really don't know.

I expect the electrical stimulation of the trigeminal and neck nerve is doing most of the work as electrical stimulation has shown benefits in tDCS (although less and it's less specific) on tinnitus. Both these nerves feed into the DCN.

 

If possible, could you share the contents of the email with us? What date did you receive the email?

 

I think people involved in development of medical devices or drugs are excluded from participation in clinical trials to avoid bias. This could be a reason why she might have refrained from testing it on herself.

 

Nothing weird about tinnitus being in the head. I perceive my own tinnitus as such.

However, there's the interviews of Dr. Shore, clearly proving her linguistic faculties to be far superior to most of us, and there's this email with a weirdly robotic syntactic choices. I can't be the only one seeing it...?

 

Maybe she's used it and it has improved her tinnitus (I understand that the device rarely eliminates tinnitus).

 

It's called being curt.

It's what happens when you're working hard and people flood you with questions that you don't get paid to answer.

 

I think you might be reading into her writing a bit too much. Looks like typical boomer email to me.

 

Guys, everyone really needs to leave Dr. Shore alone and let her work in peace. Some members of this community have an awful habit of pestering (some would call harassing) companies and scientists about treatments, and turning on them when there is nothing there for the individual emailing; it really needs to stop.

 

Was the tinnitus reduction by 6 dB and 12 dB measured based on reduced MML (Minimum Masking Level) or Tinnitus Loudness Matching?

 

The way she asked people not to contact her gave off the vibe that it's really pissing her off but she was very polite about it.

 

@Mentos, I think it was called Tinn Tester or something similar.

 

Please guys, just leave her alone now! She has communicated with people here on a regular basis for years. You are taking up unnecessary time.

 

I believe the same level of obsessive compulsivity that makes tinnitus so difficult for many to deal with is the same underlying factor driving individuals to email researchers regularly. I know it's tough, I've been there and I'm there, but we really have to resist the urge to email researchers. If you have to channel that obsession, email and write your representatives and lobbyists and demand action.

Also, I imagine researchers will be much more apt to accept invitations to podcasts, interviews and the like if communications are few and far between.

 

To further ease anxieties, I was lurking around some clinical trial threads and noticed a profile of a man that had received an implant for vagus nerve stimulation. His story was relatively clear and concise, he went under the knife and got a stimulator put in, then roughly a year later he never returned here.

This to some extent tells me that the bi-modal treatment may be cumulative and works for the majority of tinnitus sufferers. If I remember correctly, he did not have somatic tinnitus.

This comment being anecdotal at best, the Dr. Shore's device should, if used for extended periods of duration, resolve most tinnitus cases completely. For all those in doubt, please bear in mind that this form of therapy has been proven to work, it's just seemingly never had a commercial product with success.

 

@CarlosEstan, I do think it will help non-somatic cases, perhaps less, perhaps not. The treatment still gains access to the DCN via the dorsal column nerve and trigeminal nerve, but it just hasn't been tested on non-somatic cases.

 

No offense to anyone who thinks differently, but I find it interesting that anyone still thinks that if this works for people who know how to make their tinnitus worse (sans noise exposure), there's a possibility it won't work for people who don't know how to make their tinnitus worse (sans noise exposure).

I have yet to read an account by anyone who had me convinced they couldn't change (read: make significantly worse) the noise in their head by some means; be it by screwing around with their ears or clenching their jaw etc.

Perhaps there are some, who, like the ones still (capable of) hitting the night clubs, aren't yet aware of, and made subject to, the linear progression of tinnitus. But I'm not so convinced by all the subtypes. Progression speed? Yes. Direction? No.

Likewise, I guess there are some who haven't yet found that mechanism which changes it somewhat, but I've no fear of losing my money on a bet that it's there.

Hey, if you don't believe me (and you're one of those unique cases), try standing on your head for 5 minutes. Let me know.

Disclaimer: Not denying the existence of Somatic Tinnitus, just have a different opinion of what I think the definition should cover. That's a discussion for another thread though.

 

I have tried every conceivable way I can think of to worsen my tinnitus with every 360 degree direction head and neck turn, as well as gurning with every jaw movement.

I desperately wanted to find 'something' to not be ruled out of Dr. Shore's device.

I've raised eyebrows (one at a time) and even have a party trick of wiggling my ears.

Not one single decibel have I found my tinnitus to increase from any such movement - and I have about 6-7 tones and also palinacousis.

I sure hope to find one movement to make my tinnitus increase, and I almost try daily in fairness out of desperation.

If there's one move I haven't tried, I'd be willing to give it a go.

 

Jesus... 54% of 8000 correspondents?

I stand corrected.

I was going to suggest yoga.

I feel like that would be the best test you could run in order to absolutely rule out such an "ability".

Personally, I'd prefer for my tinnitus to be less modulatable than it is. Just the simple act of opening my mouth as if to yawn makes it shoot up (eligibility for bimodal stimulation or not).

In any case, for what it's worth, my instincts tell me that even if you genuinely cannot change your tone (via some physical manoeuvre), this will still work for you. Just remember: absence of evidence is not evidence (as I just demonstrated in my last post).