New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

Discussion in 'Research News' started by Hudson, Jun 20, 2013.

    1. Damocles
      No Mood

      Damocles Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otitis media
      Jesus... 54% of 8000 correspondents?

      I stand corrected.
      I was going to suggest yoga.

      I feel like that would be the best test you could run in order to absolutely rule out such an "ability".

      Personally, I'd prefer for my tinnitus to be less modulatable than it is. Just the simple act of opening my mouth as if to yawn makes it shoot up (eligibility for bimodal stimulation or not).

      In any case, for what it's worth, my instincts tell me that even if you genuinely cannot change your tone (via some physical manoeuvre), this will still work for you. Just remember: absence of evidence is not evidence (as I just demonstrated in my last post).
       
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    2. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Founder Staff Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      It was definitely a surprise to us because previous figures I'd seen from various sources and studies often indicated 70-80% could modulate their tinnitus by physical movements. While our sample size was large, I can imagine there could be ways to modulate tinnitus that you wouldn't normally necessarily think of (maybe by applying even more force or targeting very specific parts), and our respondents were just relaying their own experience without very specific guidance.

      Anyhow, another data point...
       
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    3. DeanD

      DeanD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction
      Haha thanks @Damocles - I like hope :)

      I read recently 'where there is even just a 1% chance, there's always hope.'
       
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    4. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      I don't remember my tinnitus being somatic until I took Naproxen in 2020 that greatly and permanently worsened my tinnitus and made one of the sounds somatic.

      In fact this sound only increases if I open my mouth wide (so when I yawn or when I eat for example).

      This wasn't the case before. So tinnitus can become somatic (I've read of another case here on Tinnitus Talk).

      But I don't recommend taking this medication just to use Dr. Shore's device of course!
       
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    5. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      That's interesting as I had the same when taking Paracetamol and Mirtazapine, resulting in a 10 day spike. If I opened my mouth, I'd hear something like wind sheer or the effect when listening into a sea shell, like the ocean's breeze.

      I cannot modulate my tinnitus now by the way.

      Since bimodal stimulation has shown to reduce TFI on areas other than the cheek/jaw/neck, such as the tongue/wrist/vagus nerve, I suspect that somatic tinnitus will make no difference with this treatment.
       
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    6. Jonno02
      Wishful

      Jonno02 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music / ETD
      Is there confirmation if this will be an at-home device or will it require a trained professional?
       
    7. DeanD

      DeanD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction
      Does the tinnitus return back to baseline immediately after stopping whatever neck turn or somatic action?

      The only thing that seems to affect my tinnitus volume other than noise is massaging around my ears and head, as in either a head massage or trying to clear the Eustachian tubes.

      This will increase the tinnitus volume but it stays amplified for a while.

      Having what I suspect are ETD issues as well as palinacousis, and maybe some sinus issues, may be exacerbating - or partly contributing - to my problem and volume.
       
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    8. kmj126

      kmj126 Member

      Location:
      PA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      ETD and sinuses
      I have somatic tinnitus so I would meet that requirement of Dr. Shore’s device, but what about hearing loss? I know the requirement is to have no more than 50 dB of hearing loss, but at what frequency range?

      I have normal hearing from 250 Hz to 3000 Hz and mild to moderate high frequency sensorineural hearing loss at 4000 Hz (30 dB), 6000 Hz (40 dB), and 8000 Hz (45 dB). I fear if we have a 2-year wait for the device, my hearing could get worse and be below 50 dB by that time. Does anyone know what 50 dB actually means?
       
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    9. StubbyJ

      StubbyJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/02/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Noise Exposure
      I have bi-modal, multi-tone tinnitus that is not somatic. However, I can activate an additional hiss on the right side of my head upon touching my scalp/face (right side only). Touching acts like an immediate on/off switch. The hiss will sustain with continued pressure... I can send myself personal morse code messages... Ha!

      What category do you good people think I fall in as far as applicability to Dr. Shore's treatment?
       
    10. Damocles
      No Mood

      Damocles Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otitis media
      Yes, immediately.

      I can employ three basic manoeuvres which allow me to modulate my tinnitus. These are:
      • Yawning or opening my jaw wide as if I were going to yawn (picture a Dentist visit for the latter one).
      • Stretching (experience this when I wake up first thing).
      • Tympanic suction via silicon earplugs (basically if I chew with my musicians earplugs in, the resulting pressure changes make my tinnitus fluctuate).
      All of these changes cease as soon as I stop whichever of the above I'm doing and volume returns to baseline.
      I've never experienced anything like this, but then take a look at Head Tapping / "The Reddit Tinnitus Cure". Similar manoeuvre with varying effects. Up for some, down for others, and always returns to baseline.

      So yeah...
      I also have ETD (severely in my left ear), and yes it exacerbates all of the tinnitus symptoms. Luckily the ETD is something you can alleviate while the tinnitus isn't. I'd take severe ETD issues over the torture of tinnitus any day. Just the equalisation issues on their own would be heaven.
      With this I concur.

      Before 2009, I had mild, monotonal, unilateral tinnitus in my right ear, which later progressed to moderate, monotonal, bilateral tinnitus.

      In those days, never did I once notice an ability to increase it via any movement. The only thing that ever changed or made it worse were colds and flus.

      So yes, non-somatic tinnitus can definitely develop into somatic tinnitus.
      With this I also concur.
      And with this I concur most profoundly.

      Please do not screw around with your tinnitus for the sake of making it somatic. That's just asking for trouble.

      The majority of us seem agreed it's unlikely to make a difference. So let's all just relax, watch a box set, and wait for the thing to do its magic.
       
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    11. DeanD

      DeanD Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction
      Strangely enough I tried this but didn't seem to have any effect at all - only rubbing or massaging, which I assume is moving mucus around. Unfortunately though it makes the tinnitus louder, never quieter.
      Without derailing the thread, were there any specific ETD treatments that worked for you?

      MODERATOR EDIT:

      @Damocles, wisely, moved the ETD discussion elsewhere of his own accord. Discussion continues → here.
       
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    12. Hottopic29

      Hottopic29 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Niagara falls
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Zithromycin acoustic trauma 2022
      This will be the 30 years of research device.
       
    13. ploughna

      ploughna Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      motor racing and power tools
      Couldn't agree more - be very careful. Mine was stable/non-somatic/unilateral until I had an accidental noise exposure that worsened my condition considerably. Now it's somatic, bi-lateral, much louder and highly reactive!
       
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    14. BadNeighbors
      Curious

      BadNeighbors Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      loud noise/construction
      I wonder what is going on behind the scenes with the development of Dr. Shore's device and setting up trainings for professionals to make sure they help their patients.

      Also, I'm curious why the news hasn't jumped all over this, yet. Not that I want to wait in line to try this out, but I'm kind of surprised that it is flying under the radar for the moment.

      Finally, in order to be first in line, should we be asking our ENTs to look into this or should we be telling our audiologist to keep tabs on Dr. Shore's device? Or, should we all be looking into EU vacations if the EU is going to get things first?
       
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    15. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      I asked the same question previously, this is indeed very strange. There is not a single article on the Internet about the positive results of the device. Maybe this is because the information we have is not official? Maybe we will see some articles about it once the results of the Phase II are published?
      Is it even possible for an American device like this to be commercialized first in the EU?
       
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    16. Tomas80

      Tomas80 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknow. Maybe stress?
      Any reasonable investor would look for a way to make a profit as soon as possible. If profit is faster in the EU than in the US, it would be logical...
       
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    17. Alue
      No Mood

      Alue Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      I remember that survey. I've found none of the above movements modulate my tinnitus, however a few of my tones do seem to react if I press on my zygomatic arch (the long skinny bone just below the temple), even one of the tones that I thought was just 'head' tinnitus.
       
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    18. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      Absolutely nothing. Why should any professional engage in training on a tinnitus treatment that is not approved nor has any results publicly published? The only action potentially taken right now is exploring the network of who might be able to distribute the treatment in the future. We are a long way from training sessions.
      Because there are no results published, no presentations available, just a first look into the research behind closed doors. There are 1000s of in-vitro/in-vivo/preliminary study results shared for 1000s of diseases every month. Logically the media will not pick those up either. It's an inner circle thing, mostly hyped up by ourselves.
      No, because ENTs and audiologists don't follow the research news nearly as close as the people on Tinnitus Talk. This treatment is still pretty far away from the clinic. The only public domain where some of the initial findings were published is on Tinnitus Talk.

      And no, the EU will not get this treatment early. The research is partially funded with VA grants. Jon Pearson from Auricle already said the US will have initial focus on the launch of the treatment.
       
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    19. dj_newark

      dj_newark Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Dr. Shore has been researching her method for 20 years as I understand it. It's likely we'll see her device released in a year or two, hopefully less!
       
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    20. SmallRonnie
      Ape-like

      SmallRonnie Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      H since 2018. T since 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise
      Will people from the EU be allowed to fly over to the US to get the device, do you think?
       
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    21. CarlosEstan
      Inspired

      CarlosEstan Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2022
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced
      @SmallRonnie, I think there is a high likelihood that this treatment will have to be "dialed in" by a physician, therefore making just owning the device 1/2 the process. I personally see the Tinnitus Talk community trying to establish a way for people overseas to get treatment by using local hotels (or completely rent-free retreats dedicated to their recovery) and healthcare providers. Occipital Neuralgia & Trigeminal Neuralgia has a similar set up already in place led by the surgeons that perform the decompression surgeries. They allow you to simply call, discuss your issue via telehealth, agree if you meet the criteria, then give you a local hotels number who has their special rate. These rates are usually almost half off, so around 40-60 dollars a night.

      Simply put, even if no one in this community were to try and render aid; if there is a market for effective treatment, there is a market for facilitating it.
       
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    22. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that was possible. The US based healthcare system is more commercially focused then we have in the EU.

      I'd expect to see some early adopters in the EU too, like the Brai3n clinic of Dirk de Ridder and others.
       
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    23. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Ya sure, why not.
       
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    24. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Nonnatural energy source
      Absolutely!!! They will happily take your money, I promise.
       
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    25. Fightthearmy

      Fightthearmy Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      work-related
      Well, the global media made a huge buzz in 2012 about Dr. Kilgard, who is all talk and nothing to show for it.
       
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    26. NYCGuy
      Depressed

      NYCGuy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck, Jaw or Stress, who knows.
      Let's hope 2023 brings this device to market.

      I can fully modulate my tinnitus with teeth, neck etc so I should be a good candidate.
       
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    27. Hottopic29

      Hottopic29 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Niagara falls
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Zithromycin acoustic trauma 2022
      Even if the papers say good stuff, Dr. Shore might not release the device for another year or two. She's not going to move quick on her work that took 20 years. It still has to be approved by the FDA which will take up to 2 years and then they will look into manufacturing it which could take a year with the shortage of stuff from COVID-19.

      I don't see the device being available in the next 3 years. Sorry.
       
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    28. AnthonyMcDonald
      Confused

      AnthonyMcDonald Member

      Location:
      Russia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      I haven't been watching this thread in a while - has Susan Shore mentioned the volume and frequency of the signals? For all my hyperacusis bros out there.
       
    29. InNeedOfHelp

      InNeedOfHelp Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      MRI Scan
      I don't think it's wise to make such false statements on Tinnitus Talk without any proof backing it up.

      The average length of time for clearance under the traditional 510(k) pathway is 177 days, or nearly six months. Just 19% of devices on the 510(k) pathway are cleared within three months.

      The average number of days it takes to clear a device via 510(k) varies according to the device category. Anesthesiology devices have the longest average length to approval, averaging 245 days. Toxicology devices are the shortest on-average, at just 163 days.

      Dr. Susan Shore has nothing to do with launching this device. A commercial investor is not going to "take its time" to get return on investment.

      My expectation is that there will be a lucky few with the device next Christmas and we can anticipate a very small launch at the end of this year with a very select amount of service providers and devices. In 2024 scaling up to have wider availability of the device.
       
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    30. 2noist

      2noist Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2015
      @Hottopic29 is maybe overly pessimistic with his outlook, but you are overly optimistic. The FDA won't approve the device before the Phase 2 results are officially out and then after that there is the manufacturing (which I don't think they'll start before approval), setting up the infrastructure, training audiologists et cetera. This won't happen as quick as you think. It's much more likely that it'll be mid-late 2024 before there's any initial availability.

      Dr. Shore co-owns Auricle and she won't allow anything to be hurried if there's risk of botching things up.

      But we're all talking out of our asses, speculation and guesswork at best...
       
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